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DAD 4 GAME

FORBIDDEN & LIMITED LISTS Effective from August 29, 2016

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Nelrick    2392

Like literally let me just spoonfed you the same thing i said but prettier.

 

Statement A: In theory, Cherries being played was going to affect BA

Statement B: In Practice, that did not happen.

 

Statement 1: In theory, Cir and beatrice 1 affects BA.

Assumption: Cherries affects BA more than 1 Cir and 1 Beatrice.

Statement 2: In practice, Cir and beatrice wont affect BA either.

 

The only way that the fallacy would apply is if you leave out the assumption. Unless you actually think that between cherries dissapearing and the hits being undone, the latter would be more beneficial to BA as a Whole. In which case you have other problems than to be calling me wrong.

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oliver?    690

please read the false equivalence link I'm done with this argument someone else can take over if they want

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DAD 4 GAME    46

You guys are just arguing over semantics at this point.
It is clear that the limits on Cir and Beatrice will hurt BA, but not to the extent where it becomes competitively nonviable.

BA will clearly still be a very powerful deck with the potential to remain a solid top-tier deck, especially with the hits to the other top decks.

Arguing over whether the impact of Cherries and the impact of these limits is a valid comparison is trivial and irrelevant.

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Squiddy    9171

this list acutally adressed all of the problems in the format minus a light slap for BA i really like dis change. especially kirin dat cart is broken thank god they hit it. the only other thing its missing is something fresh from being forbidden but none da less its actually one of the better changes recently imo (|:|)

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52 minutes ago, oliver? said:
 

Uhh... you do know Wikipedia is not considered a good source for citing right(Not saying the information is wrong but Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source)? It's like one of the first things they tell you in writing classes in college and I think it applies even hear on a Yugioh forum 

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+Gemstone Mine    2596

yes, in an academic paper, wikipedia is not a reliable source. This isn't an academic paper, especially when you are linking it as a means of explaning something.

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»Noelle    5847

common misconception, actually wikipedia is one of the best sources but only on heavily frequented pages because they're edited more for accuracy and won't be left abandoned and unchanged

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»Noelle    5847

although it probably isnt proper to call wikipedia itself a "source," but rather, a collection of simplified information from other sources

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Axle    1217

I was messing around in the fake format of TCG list + OCG cards and Treatoad Heroes are just not fair when Instant Fusion is at 3 w/ Norden. 

 

List will be good for a few months and then when INOV hits Heroes are going to become tier 1 and darklaw.dek being that good is not going to be fun. Deck's nearly tier 1 in Japan with only 1 Shadow Mist and no Norden to abuse w/ Instant Fusion. Sure they have Stratos instead but 3 Shadow Mist is better. It'll certainly be good enough to be meta here. 

 

Take this tournament for example:

http://ygodr.blog.jp/archives/1060479062.html

It's the 4th most popular deck and significantly weaker there than here. 

In general it's the 4th/5th best deck in Japan without Instant Fusion giving a free Bahamut+Treatoad 40% of games(desires and some other draw cards add odds)  and 3 Shadow Mist. Otherwise IF is used for going second and breaking boards.  

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foofatron    38
34 minutes ago, Axle said:

I was messing around in the fake format of TCG list + OCG cards and Treatoad Heroes are just not fair when Instant Fusion is at 3 w/ Norden. 

 

List will be good for a few months and then when INOV hits Heroes are going to become tier 1 and darklaw.dek being that good is not going to be fun. Deck's nearly tier 1 in Japan with only 1 Shadow Mist and no Norden to abuse w/ Instant Fusion. Sure they have Stratos instead but 3 Shadow Mist is better. It'll certainly be good enough to be meta here. 

 

Take this tournament for example:

http://ygodr.blog.jp/archives/1060479062.html

It's the 4th most popular deck and significantly weaker there than here. 

In general it's the 4th/5th best deck in Japan without Instant Fusion giving a free Bahamut+Treatoad 40% of games(desires and some other draw cards add odds)  and 3 Shadow Mist. Otherwise IF is used for going second and breaking boards.  

Heros can't play through disruption though.

 

I've been playing around with using spellcasters instead since you can pretty much summon as many as you want in a turn. Theoretically it is better going second, but it doesn't quite play out like that because it doesn't have an out to abc dragon or kirin (now hit). I can say that is it able to break cancer stuff like crystal wing + sig + titanic. Here is a vid of it under last tcg list: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29430767

 

Don't forget you can add back Gameciel with toad so if you do see it you'd probably beat abc.

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oliver?    690
3 hours ago, Chumley said:

Uhh... you do know Wikipedia is not considered a good source for citing right(Not saying the information is wrong but Wikipedia is not considered a reliable source)? It's like one of the first things they tell you in writing classes in college and I think it applies even hear on a Yugioh forum 

 

when it becomes the norm on duelistgroundz to cite peer-reviewed academic journals ill do that instead

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Axle    1217
24 minutes ago, foofatron said:

Heros can't play through disruption though.

 

I've been playing around with using spellcasters instead since you can pretty much summon as many as you want in a turn. Theoretically it is better going second, but it doesn't quite play out like that because it doesn't have an out to abc dragon or kirin (now hit). I can say that is it able to break cancer stuff like crystal wing + sig + titanic. Here is a vid of it under last tcg list: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm29430767

Okay the "deck has to go first" argument has always been garbage. If the deck could only win if it goes first, then it wouldn't be as successful in events. Very few people will realistically get that luck of winning every single roll. A glass cannon deck cannot and will not ever get multiple tops in an event. 

The heroes you know are not the heroes we will be playing. 

 

3 Instant Fusion, 3 Hero Lives, Soul Charge, (draw power to get those),  and all the rank 4 spam means there are plenty of plays to break boards (without losing card advantage or relying on normal summons) in a single turn whether they be Kozmo boards or not. The TCG meta is not stronger than the OCG meta now either, so that can't be used as an excuse. 

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Joe.    4932

"Joseph Giorlando stalls out with Kaiser Colosseum to come back from behind in Duel 2! Anthony Vo will be going first in Duel 3!" They went back and read my 2012 feature match. Didn't want Laggia + Colosseum becoming too popular.

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foofatron    38
19 minutes ago, Axle said:

Okay the "deck has to go first" argument has always been garbage. If the deck could only win if it goes first, then it wouldn't be as successful in events. Very few people will realistically get that luck of winning every single roll. A glass cannon deck cannot and will not ever get multiple tops in an event. 

The heroes you know are not the heroes we will be playing. 

 

3 Instant Fusion, 3 Hero Lives, Soul Charge, (draw power to get those),  and all the rank 4 spam means there are plenty of plays to break boards in a single turn whether they be Kozmo boards or not. The TCG meta is not stronger than the OCG meta now either, so that can't be used as an excuse. 

I've played them and played against them quite a bit (ocg and tcg builds). Their win condition is to set-up a board and protect it.

 

Their normal summon is very important and if disrupted severely reduces the amount of plays they can make. Even if they can make multiple r4's how good is that at dismantling boards? Not very. What resources do they have left after that point? Going first with the deck is pretty much auto-win which means you only have to win one more game. With hand traps, raigeki, concealing, etc that becomes more than a coin flip. However, that doesn't change that they can't play through disruption and that their engine is rather fragile.

 

I think spellcasters are flat out better as the treatoad deck because it is the same thing but has a higher ceiling. Both decks need external cards to deal with abc and kirin which is a pretty big deterrent against playing them.

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Axle    1217

The list you posted looks like a mess and more of a one trick pony than Heroes which is actually topping. 

That angler card also isn't tcg legal. 

 

 

Tbh by making these posts I'm sure I look like one of those crazy people who scream "Gladiator beasts will be tier 1 mark my words" after lists come out, but whatever. I think having Norden is enough to push it to be good and I'll just say I don't look forward to the post INOV format because of it. 

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foofatron    38

It is literally a deck of 4's how can you say it is a mess? It consistently opens raff + toad which is enough to win going first and going second the monsters are inherent summons. Fairy tail card is also a good card to run in it and makes any board stronger. It does a better job of toad and r4 than heros do so if you're going to call it a one trick pony idk how you can support heros.

 

Angler isn't a huge deal, worst case you just run tin goldfish. Might be other cards to run. Angler is better because the deck is built so you don't need to use any monster effects before xyz summon which is a big benefit when people like to make boards with stuff like toad, crystal wing, etc.

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Blacklisted    1329

Can we keep this to the F/L List discussion and not the R/F Hero deck for 2017 TCG Format

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»victor    6400

It saddens me that there are only 2 pages on the banlist thread, shows how much activity we have lost. 

 

Brilliant Fusion not being touched is the biggest omission to me.

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+Silver    1008
1 hour ago, Joe. said:

"Joseph Giorlando stalls out with Kaiser Colosseum to come back from behind in Duel 2! Anthony Vo will be going first in Duel 3!" They went back and read my 2012 feature match. Didn't want Laggia + Colosseum becoming too popular.

I'm pretty sure it's because I've been topping my locals with demise desire satellarknight with triple Kaiser, triple call and triple oasis , triple chaos trap hole (cuz I can't don't have strikes arm) for shenanigans with Kaiser. 

 

Then making triverr with Kaiser is too op

 

rip

 

double post

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Axle    1217
16 minutes ago, Blacklisted said:

Can we keep this to the F/L List discussion and not the R/F Hero deck for 2017 TCG Format

It's actually just 2 months from now and is going to be the majority of the format and not this honeymoon 2 month format, but eh. I know TCG only players will be ignorant to the whole thing. Can't expect them to keep up with new cards.  You're looking at the short term strengths of the list, and I'm looking at the long term faults of the list. 

 

The f/l discussion is that the lack of Norden ban or IF hit is really dumb and everyone will be hating it very soon. It's just a choice to push new product into the meta and sell their secret rare. 

 

It's not my fault this guy keeps quoting me and continuing the discussion. I'll stop responding to him. 

 

 

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Blacklisted    1329

On topic I thought Kaiser was being banned because of that Destiny Hero Dark Angel card

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foofatron    38

 

2 minutes ago, Axle said:

It's actually like 2 months from now and is going to be the majority of the format and not this honey moon 2 month format, but eh. I know TCG only players will be ignorant to the whole thing. Can't expect them to keep up with new cards. 

 

The f/l discussion is that the lack of Norden ban is really dumb and everyone will be hating it very soon. 

Norden is pretty crazy. Spider shark is amazing with it + toad as it protects toad from being run over and floats back into norden. Being able to run over big monsters twice is a huge boon for rank 4 decks. Really helps vs. blue-eyes.

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»Digbick    7256

omega didn't get hit smh. Its not fun when someone summons a bunch of omega and make your hand useless

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petqwe    286

Remember guys , tcg always have a better list than Ocg

Until one day your konami thinks cyber Stein is ok to be unbanned

 

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