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Guys, it's happened again. I hadn't checked my facebook all day then I logged in to discover this: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103114177.html , http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article103155137.html

Protests have erupted that went violent resulting in injured police officers after another police shooting this time in Charlotte, NC of Keith Lamont Scott which hits frighteningly close to home since I have family in that area and also use to live near by myself. With all that said I hope we can have a civil discussion in this thread about a hot button issue being faced in America right now.

 

 

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»Barron    7988

You know I'm sick of seeing people riot because an officer shoots a black man then cries fowl & riots. There are people who are found guilty of fuck ups but hurting your own people & the city by doing all this destruction isn't helping anyone. It's a lose lose situation for both sides. Sooner or later, martial law will be in effect because of all this & that's not what we all want coming out of this. Someone in the crowd shot a black man & he's in critical condition/life support because what? Now you're killing another black man & you're mad police killed someone? 

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Joe.    4932

Deindividuation and the role of situational factors both at work.

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Flacko    2143

My personal news station told me that the cop who shot the man was black. I don't know if thats true but I could believe it. Those people are fucking stupid and will die in those riots and deservedly so because they're nothing but fucking hooligans. I pray for the innocent. People don't even give a fuck about the guy who died, they just wanna be anarchists. Thats exactly why the one guy in the crowd got shot. Thats why all the cops fucking died. People are so stupid. 

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Winter    21

They're beating up reporters and homeless people now. Apperently they tried to stuff somone in a flaming trash can too. And police say Dashcam confirms man had a gun and was walking towards the cop.

 

Regardless, this isn't helping BLM one bit. They look like troublemakers instead of freedom fighters

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»Barron    7988

Im hearing they stripped a white man naked then beat him up in a parking lot, looking for video of it but this is just terrible. 

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Azzaw    64

 I am personally against riots but it really doesn't surprise me nor can I condemn them for rioting. Its only a reaction that will keep growing stronger if nothing truly happens.

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»Barron    7988
58 minutes ago, 7hhzz7 said:

Im hearing they stripped a white man naked then beat him up in a parking lot, looking for video of it but this is just terrible. 

idk how to embed on dg

 

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Myth    95

Fucking cowards. Roam in packs and assault innocent people just because of their skin color, burn police vehicles, assault police officers, destroy your local businesses through looting and vandalism, all in the name of 'protest'. This isn't protesting; this is rioting. Absolutely nothing will be accomplished through this but the suffering of innocent civilians and the damnation of whatever cause they thought they were fighting for. 

 

 

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Me.    57
10 minutes ago, Myth said:

Fucking cowards. Roam in packs and assault innocent people just because of their skin color, burn police vehicles, assault police officers, destroy your local businesses through looting and vandalism, all in the name of 'protest'. This isn't protesting; this is rioting. Absolutely nothing will be accomplished through this but the suffering of innocent civilians and the damnation of whatever cause they thought they were fighting for. 

 

 

Is this real? Like, seriously, USA just keeps surprising me in one negative way after another. 

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Myth    95
Just now, Me. said:

Is this real? Like, seriously, USA just keeps surprising me in one negative way after another. 

Yes, unfortunately this is a reality today in the united states. Racial tensions are at a height not seen since the civil rights movement. We're becoming more and more divided day by day and tribalism is starting to rear it's ugly head. The more shit like this happens the more middle america is pushed farther and father to the right and the more those who feel like they are personally effected by police shootings are pushed farther and farther to the left. It's truly becoming 'us vs them' for many Americans.

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ZXtheD    272
6 hours ago, 7hhzz7 said:

You know I'm sick of seeing people riot because an officer shoots a black man then cries fowl & riots. There are people who are found guilty of fuck ups but hurting your own people & the city by doing all this destruction isn't helping anyone. It's a lose lose situation for both sides. Sooner or later, martial law will be in effect because of all this & that's not what we all want coming out of this. Someone in the crowd shot a black man & he's in critical condition/life support because what? Now you're killing another black man & you're mad police killed someone? 

 

I'm also sick of police shooting people then lying about what happened on the scene too. I'm also sick of the police try to bury the damning evidence against them, ESPECIALLY like the law just passed this year in North Carolina that makes it much tougher to get bodycam footage of these incidences (not much of a coincidence either). I'm ALSO sick of people criminalizing the victims of these shootings, and especially the ones that start digging for any forms of criminal history of the victim within hours of the news breaking.  As for the guy harmed, the perp should and probably will face justice. Can't say that about the police who kill anyone though.

 

1 hour ago, Myth said:

 

Fucking cowards. Roam in packs and assault innocent people just because of their skin color

 

 

The police already do this, but I don't see the outrage coming from your camp when it happens. Just a lot of rationalization and mental gymnastics. Or silence. Also the rioters aren't burning down their neighborhoods, since they don't actually own any of the things destroyed, and if they do it's either untouched or they try to rebuild it.

 

5 hours ago, Markus. said:

My personal news station told me that the cop who shot the man was black. I don't know if thats true but I could believe it. Those people are fucking stupid and will die in those riots and deservedly so because they're nothing but fucking hooligans. I pray for the innocent. People don't even give a fuck about the guy who died, they just wanna be anarchists. Thats exactly why the one guy in the crowd got shot. Thats why all the cops fucking died. People are so stupid. 

 

Black cop doesn't mean shit when you have stuff like this happening http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/man-dies-of-thirst-in-jail-run-by-trump-loving-sheriff-after-guards-cut-off-his-water-for-six-days/

 

If you REALLY care about the innocent, care about the people needlessly dying at the hands of the police and being let off/protected by complicit system. Stop defending them. The rioting isn't happening because they "want new stuff" or any other talking point like that. It's probably happening because of years of bad relations between the police in the community. Same thing that happened in Milwaukee-Sheriff Clarke's police dept is absolute trash with an extensive history of corruption and abuse. The link I posted is only the tip of the iceberg, but you wouldn't know that by his crying to the national guard over a problem he created/perpetuated.

 

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Myth    95

You fucking what, mate? The police roam in packs? That's called patrolling ; it's literally their job. I'm not going to sit here and defend asshole cops who discriminate people based on color, because I know they exist and it's a problem. But, you have to remember that these police officers are human beings who just want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They put their life on the line every single day to keep the peace. 

 

And as far as what you assume 'my camp' is and how we aren't talking about this, you're absurdly arrogant to assume that this isn't an issue the right talks about on a daily basis. 

 

"The rioters don't own anything they destroy" so you have to own something in order to not destroy it? The businesses they're looting and the property they're destroying are at the cost of innocent people who have absolutely nothing to do with police violence or whatever anarchist agenda these 'protesters' have. Just because you don't directly profit from it doesn't mean you need to go fucking destroy it and steal the property of businesses, especially when they aren't EVEN FUCKING INVOLVED. Most of these people aren't even doing this for a political agenda; they're just taking advantage of chaos for their own gain. They don't give a shit. All the American public is going to see, the american people they feel oppressed by, are blacks destroying shit and beating the fuck out of innocent people in packs for political reasons they don't give a fuck about.

 

Fucking reactionaries. 

 

 

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ZXtheD    272
6 minutes ago, Myth said:

You fucking what, mate? The police roam in packs? That's called patrolling ; it's literally their job. I'm not going to sit here and defend asshole cops who discriminate people based on color, because I know they exist and it's a problem. But, you have to remember that these police officers are human beings who just want to go home to their families at the end of the day. They put their life on the line every single day to keep the peace. 

 

And as far as what you assume 'my camp' is and how we aren't talking about this, you're absurdly arrogant to assume that this isn't an issue the right talks about on a daily basis. 

 

"The rioters don't own anything they destroy" so you have to own something in order to not destroy it? The businesses they're looting and the property they're destroying are at the cost of innocent people who have absolutely nothing to do with police violence or whatever anarchist agenda these 'protesters' have. Just because you don't directly profit from it doesn't mean you need to go fucking destroy it and steal the property of businesses, especially when they aren't EVEN FUCKING INVOLVED. Most of these people aren't even doing this for a political agenda; they're just taking advantage of chaos for their own gain. They don't give a shit. All the American public is going to see, the american people they feel oppressed by, are blacks destroying shit and beating the fuck out of innocent people in packs for political reasons they don't give a fuck about.

 

Fucking reactionaries. 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's usually "your camp" that defends this, and they do talk about it nonstop. They're the ones crying about how BLM are terrorists and whatnot. You say these cops are human beings that have families to go home to, well they're also human beings that defend their corrupt colleagues or are silent about it. The ones that aren't are intimidated, victimized, fired, or worse. This doesn't tell me that the majority of the police are good; they'll cry about Keapernick criticizing them but won't/can't even criticize their own for corruption.

 

"They're doing this for political gain". Oh? They are? Show me what they're gaining politically from destroying property. You're acting like all those unnamed faces are trying to get some book deal or something. Even if it was for some kind of political gain, that'd be a good thing, since you need political power to actually punish corrupt police, so are you admitting in a roundabout way that you don't really want the issue of police brutality to be solved?

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Myth    95
2 minutes ago, ZXtheD said:

 

Yeah, it's usually "your camp" that defends this, and they do talk about it nonstop. They're the ones crying about how BLM are terrorists and whatnot. You say these cops are human beings that have families to go home to, well they're also human beings that defend their corrupt colleagues or are silent about it. The ones that aren't are intimidated, victimized, fired, or worse. This doesn't tell me that the majority of the police are good; they'll cry about Keapernick criticizing them but won't/can't even criticize their own for corruption.

 

"They're doing this for political gain". Oh? They are? Show me what they're gaining politically from destroying property. You're acting like all those unnamed faces are trying to get some book deal or something. Even if it was for some kind of political gain, that'd be a good thing, since you need political power to actually punish corrupt police, so are you admitting in a roundabout way that you don't really want the issue of police brutality to be solved?

Probably because they are terrorists? 

 

I find it interesting that you would question that the majority of police officers are good and not mention the hypocrisy that possibly the majority of criminals who are shot and killed by police officers are not 'good'.

 

And what solution exactly would you propose to curving 'police brutality'? 

 

And as far as political gain; it will never be accomplished by acting like this. Spontaneous revolutions worked in the past, but they don't work now, and they do not work in America. These 'protests' are unorganized without any leadership. Rioting, destroying public property, looting, blocking highways, and screaming at people outside of political rallies isn't going to get your point across. This issue is far more complex than race and class. It's a difficult issue to tackle, and one I don't have a direct answer for.

 

 

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Telvin123    387
5 hours ago, Winter said:

Regardless, this isn't helping BLM one bit.

 

May ultimately not apply to you, but this is one thing that always bugged me in general:

 

Always loathed when people say stuff like this, as if to imply that because a protest became too violent and rowdy, this is now the excuse they'll use to discredit a movement that just first and foremost just wants to resolve the issue of police brutality. I know that's how things generally work, but I wish people would continue to recognize why these protests and even some of the violence happens to begin with. Instead, there's always that person who will go "See, I knew BLM was bad after all!". Some people even seem to get even a little excited, as if they've been waiting for another chance to denounce BLM, and so on. For those share that viewpoint, then honestly fuck off lol.

 

I don't condone what's happening for obvious reasons, but I'll never be able to not be empathetic on some level to any protests or riots that break out due to police brutality. But I guess for some, it's easier to bring up the actions of the few and distort that to represent the entirety of BLM, despite that not being the truth. After all, black people tend to be held up as monoliths anyhow, rather than as individuals. 

 

When put in contrast with the whole Kaepernick thing, it's somewhat amusing. Because despite him being on the extreme end, where's he being completely peaceful, and has even put his money where his mouth is, people still hate his guts for daring to speak out. Regardless of the form the protest or even riot takes place, I've long realized that people will always find a reason to deflect from what the actual message is, to look away from the pain the black community is feeling.

 

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Telvin123    387
5 hours ago, Azzaw said:

 I am personally against riots but it really doesn't surprise me nor can I condemn them for rioting. Its only a reaction that will keep growing stronger if nothing truly happens.

 

Basically a TLDR of my thoughts, now that I think about it lol

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Myth    95
6 minutes ago, Telvin123 said:

 

May ultimately not apply to you, but this is one thing that always bugged me in general:

 

Always loathed when people say stuff like this, as if to imply that because a protest became too violent and rowdy, this is now the excuse they'll use to discredit a movement that just first and foremost just wants to resolve the issue of police brutality. I know that's how things generally work, but I wish people would continue to recognize why these protests and even some of the violence happens to begin with. Instead, there's always that person who will go "See, I knew BLM was bad after all!". Some people even seem to get even a little excited, as if they've been waiting for another chance to denounce BLM, and so on. For those share that viewpoint, then honestly fuck off lol.

 

I don't condone what's happening for obvious reasons, but I'll never be able to not be empathetic on some level to any protests or riots that break out due to police brutality. But I guess for some, it's easier to bring up the actions of the few and distort that to represent the entirety of BLM, despite that not being the truth. After all, black people tend to be held up as monoliths anyhow, rather than as individuals. 

 

When put in contrast with the whole Kaepernick thing, it's somewhat amusing. Because despite him being on the extreme end, where's he being completely peaceful, and has even put his money where his mouth is, people still hate his guts for daring to speak out. Regardless of the form the protest or even riot takes place, I've long realized that people will always find a reason to deflect from what the actual message is, to look away from the pain the black community is feeling.

 

There is a core part of the movement that does want to resolve police brutality. What people seem to be ignoring is the community surrounding BLM band wagoning and just being violent for their own gain. I'm not sure how you can watch the above video and not see what I'm talking about. I believe BLM when it started was a positive movement for change, but what it has become is deplorable. 

 

Also, to touch on Kapernick, I have no problem with what he's doing. He's peacefully protesting and using his right as an American citizen to exercise free speech. He's doing nothing wrong and I don't understand the anger towards him. If you want people to protest peacefully about police brutality, racism, etc then don't freak out when someone finally does what you want them to do just because it happens to be a celebrity, who happens to be 'disrespecting' the national anthem. I'm sure he's fully aware how this is going to effect his career and even if I don't agree with him I respect what he's doing.

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ZXtheD    272
29 minutes ago, Myth said:

Probably because they are terrorists? 

 

I find it interesting that you would question that the majority of police officers are good and not mention the hypocrisy that possibly the majority of criminals who are shot and killed by police officers are not 'good'.

 

And what solution exactly would you propose to curving 'police brutality'? 

 

And as far as political gain; it will never be accomplished by acting like this. Spontaneous revolutions worked in the past, but they don't work now, and they do not work in America. These 'protests' are unorganized without any leadership. Rioting, destroying public property, looting, blocking highways, and screaming at people outside of political rallies isn't going to get your point across. This issue is far more complex than race and class. It's a difficult issue to tackle, and one I don't have a direct answer for.

 

 

 

And let me guess, these guys are patriots for taking on these "terrorists"?- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/us/4-arrested-in-shooting-at-black-lives-matter-protest-are-identified.html

 

Also, either the majority of officers are in on it or have a bad case of bystander effect. As for solving this issue of brutality, you actually vet these officers for white supremacist ties, replace the officials complicit in this, from the judges to the DAs and onward. Financially back those who actually will punish bad eggs and starve those who reward them.

 

I don't really care what you think an appropriate response to brutality is, not because the end justifies the means, but because people criticize those who dislike police brutality for just because they speak out against it. To a lot of people it doesn't really matter how you protest-it's all bad, which tells me they don't have a problem with the method of protest, but with the message instead. Lastly, race and class have everything to do with this. The police are only able to get away with what they do because black people in general have no resources to challenge them. They not only need to organize their votes and protests, but their wallets too if they really want this to end. Might not be much but you gotta start somewhere.

 

Edit: Oh, forgot to mention, that footage of that guy getting jumped supposedly comes from England, not Charlotte. Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.

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Myth    95
6 minutes ago, ZXtheD said:

 

And let me guess, these guys are patriots for taking on these "terrorists"?- http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/us/4-arrested-in-shooting-at-black-lives-matter-protest-are-identified.html

 

Also, either the majority of officers are in on it or have a bad case of bystander effect. As for solving this issue of brutality, you actually vet these officers for white supremacist ties, replace the officials complicit in this, from the judges to the DAs and onward. Financially back those who actually will punish bad eggs and starve those who reward them.

 

I don't really care what you think an appropriate response to brutality is, not because the end justifies the means, but because people criticize those who dislike police brutality for just because they speak out against it. To a lot of people it doesn't really matter how you protest-it's all bad, which tells me they don't have a problem with the method of protest, but with the message instead. Lastly, race and class have everything to do with this. The police are only able to get away with what they do because black people in general have no resources to challenge them. They not only need to organize their votes and protests, but their wallets too if they really want this to end. Might not be much but you gotta start somewhere.

White supremacist ties? LOL. Yes, bro, the Aryan Nation are infiltrating the police force. It's a scheme just like planned parenthood to exterminate the black race. That's fucking ridiculous. Have you ever actually met a white supremacist? I've met Nazis, Communists, Anarchists, Ancaps, National Bolsheviks but I have never, ever, had the 'pleasure' of meeting a true blue white supremacist, because they are so rare. I think you're mixing up racism with prejudice, and there is a very distinct difference. If you believe your race is better than another, you are racist. Now, how exactly would you vet a police officer for 'white supremacist' ties, since that seems to be the focal point you are most concerned about. What questions do you ask him, what tests does he take, and how exactly do you determine if he's even telling the truth?

 

You said you don't care what I think about police brutality because you've done nothing but assume my stances. I do not agree with cops shooting people without probable cause. You ever heard of the Non Aggression Principle?. You do not act aggressively in any way, be it physical, economically or verbally towards someone unless you are provoked. I'm not going to defend police brutality, but I am going to defend law enforcement officers for doing their job. 

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+rei+    34688

Myth I love how in the "roam in packs and assault innocents based on race" you drew contention with roam in packs pointing out its their job.

Don't think that was the main issue. 

 

BUT LOOK HEY LOOK ITS THAT TIME AGAIN

 

 

 

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Myth    95

rei patrolling a neighborhood to prevent crime is entirely different than patrolling to start crime. 

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ZXtheD    272
29 minutes ago, Myth said:

White supremacist ties? LOL. Yes, bro, the Aryan Nation are infiltrating the police force.

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2016/07/police_shootings_brings_into_s.html 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/philadelphia-police-investigate-officer-photographed-tattoo-resembling-nazi/story?id=41823227

 

You were saying?

 

29 minutes ago, Myth said:

You ever heard of the Non Aggression Principle?. You do not act aggressively in any way, be it physical, economically or verbally towards someone unless you are provoked. I'm not going to defend police brutality, but I am going to defend law enforcement officers for doing their job. 

 

What if it's their job to harass and brutalize the citizenry? As for this non-aggression principle (which I know very well), people have already been provoked. Action is justified at this point. I've always taken the NAP as to mean physical violence, so we're adding verbal and economic action now? That's new seeing how physical, verbal, and economic aggression can be used to solve this issue. Why do you think I'm at least verbally harsh to your lot?

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Myth    95

Probably because you believe in identity politics and think anyone to the right of you is literally against you? You do realize people's view points change and can be changed by simple conversation? When one acts aggressively against the other side all it does it push that person even father in the direction they hate. It doesn't do any good and being aggressive and condescending to the opposition will never prove your point. I learned a lot from when I first started posting here about politics a few months ago elsewhere and got to meet and debate with a lot of different people, and it really did change my view point on life. Ancaps and commies can seriously perish, though.

 

Anyway, the majority of police officers are just americans trying to make an honest living, they want to go home to their families, they dread the day they have to pull their fire arm out, and furthermore they're under even more pressure because of the media and the shootings. I can't even imagine being a police officer in an urban area right now, I would have little idea how to handle that. You want to talk about the minority who are shot and killed, think about the people in law enforcement who legitimately care about their job and do what they need to do as said by the law. Everything isn't so black and white.

 

Imagine yourself pulling a suspect over, you're the officer, and you go to his drivers side window and ask for his license. He argues with you, gets attitude, whatever, you keep asking, he keeps refusing. He's confrontational, he's literally violating the law by refusing to give you his license. That's probable cause, because it's suspicious. SO, the next thing the officer is going to do is ask him to step out of the vehicle. The suspect refuses, the police officer then after warning him 10 times to put his hands on steering wheel the suspect refuses, and continues to reach his hand to something. The suspect returns his hand to the wheel periodically, but he keeps trying to drift his hand to something. Why is he doing this? Obviously he's afraid because he has something illegal in his vehicle, or maybe he has a warrant, and his thought process is just refuse the officer. Well, after enough times the officer gets pissed off after he reaches again and maces him. The suspect hits the fucking gas and drives off, as suspected, the tazer never being used. Back up is called, and all of a sudden 10 cops are chasing one half blind due in fucking monte carlo cross the desert.

 

I saw this on cops. It just amazed me. Another one is where the suspect did the same thing and got tased and fucking took off and they went on a high speed chase.

 

Police DO try and use non lethal tacitcs, but non lethal tactis are extremely ineffective a lot of the times, especially when drugs are involved. Now, police are trained in combat and theres no reason to pull a gun on an unarmed man, especially if you have fellow officers with you. But, that's not always the case. These are men who pay taxes, browse face book on the toilet, have their daughters bring them toilet paper when they run out, and go to work every day to live life as best as they can.

 

Dehumanizing police officers because of a few bad apples is wrong, and coming from your side its amazing to me some would lump all of them in with the bad and then in the same breath say not all black people are violent criminals.

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