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»victor    6398
On 9/30/2016 at 7:14 AM, Danwolf said:

I was wondering why you wouldn't use Speedroid Terrortop / Speedroid Red-Eyed Dice for more Synchro shenanigans?



I think it's cool, because you can also search Menko who works with Pteran/Rex, it being a LV 4 Machine is also remarkable for the deck.


I personally wouldn't play 3rd Iron Call or Limiter Removal (e.g. drop them for Maxx C).


To me, it seems that Treetoad may actually be better than CDI as you get to retrieve a WATER monster (reuse Norden), with people maindecking Kaiju, CDI is a more risky investment, and the 2 additional Extra Deck spaces (e.g. for Trish and Horus).




As far as Treetoad goes, I realized that Metalfoes can pro-actively pop the Aquarium cards and Different Dimension Deepsea Trench so you have potential there with Aqua Actresses and Frogs (Guppy is LV 2 Aqua). They can Pend Summon Arowana as well.


I posted this a long time ago in the context of Phantom Knights of Break Sword, but it applies to Metalfoes as well.


On 2/21/2016 at 9:06 PM, victor said:

For what's worth, since this is the WATER Discussion, one of the cool things about Break Sword is its interaction with the Aquarium Spells.


It's pretty cool you finally have a Rank 3 Scrap Dragon to pop your Aquarium cards proactively.


E.g. you pop 2 cards, put 2 counters on Waterfront, and you revive Gamecial to boot with negation active.


You can also revive the God Turtles or Barrier Statue and now your opponent can't Special Summon to get over 2000 ATK. And Aquarium Stage protects them from being destroyed in battle.


NOTE that Powerful Rebirth is better than COTH as in you can pop it, and your monster survives...


The Mermail Aqua monsters:


Mermail Abyssdine     
Mermail Abyssgaios     
Mermail Abyssgunde     
Mermail Abysshilde     
Mermail Abysslinde     
Mermail Abyssocea     
Mermail Abyssteus


All the Graydles, Genex Undine fit the bill as well, being LV 3 Aqua.


There's more stuff like Phantom Knight Traps giving protection and so on.


Food for thought.




The last point I want to make about Palezoic Frogs is that Palezoics mean you don't rely on the Normal Summon.


That lets you play:



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NB96    821

I tried this Dinomist idea but it just doesn't function the way you want it to. The way decks work today, I figured this deck would have a chance if you could consistently pull off your Karakuri combo, and then pendulum summon into Bahamut Shark or Cyber Dragon Infinity. It would be easier if the level 5 Dinomists summoned themselves going first but they don't. Ceratops requires you to have only Dinomists to summon him. So you cannot have a Karakuri on the field beforehand to do your combos. Brachion requires your opponent to have a monster which unfortunately wont work on turn 1. So I've had enough trouble assembling the Karakuri combo, let alone having a scale 3 and 6 still in hand to pendulum summon the Dinomists back for Bahamut Shark or Cyber Dragon Infinity. It seems like the only way you could feasibly achieve this field on turn 1 is if you open Dinomist Charge, but you only have 3 of it.

The Foolish Burial idea with Zephyros and Deskbot 001 is cute but it didn't work for me. Foolish Burial is limited so you're playing 2 bad draws for the 1 Foolish, unless there's another way to send them from the deck to the graveyard, for which I am not familiar. It doesn't seem consistent enough for me,

I also had very little room in the deck, which actually left me with only 12 Dinomist monsters (15 if you count Charge). I don't think 6 of each scale is enough to consistently make both the Karakuri combo into Bureido's, as well as having 2 left in hand (which also have to be the correct scales) to pendulum summon after your combo.

I also found that my combos would stop almost always after the first Bureido because I had no way to put a second level 4 non-Tuner on the field to go with Saizan for the second Bureido. The only way to do it often enough was if I used the pendulum summon, at which point you have no second wind and must end on one Titanic Galaxy. That's not enough to stun the opponent when they are playing a halfway decent deck. I can get to the first Bureido fairly easily because I was using Unexpected Dai with Angel Trumpeter to go with any level 4 Dinomist for the initial Bureido. Getting to the second seems like a problem. Stuff like Solar Wind Jammer for example seemed useful but it and Unexpected Dai have the same problem: you must control no monsters to play them. Brilliant Fusion with Gem-Knight Seraphinite was an idea since it gave me a second normal summon but has it's own problems:

  • Normal summoning a second level 4 Dinomist often meant at that point I would not have the necessary pendulum scales to pendulum summon, and would have to rely on the Bureido draws being very lucky.
  • Can't summon a Karakuri synchro with Seraphinite, which isn't the be all end all but is still annoying.
  • Requires playing more dead draws in the Gem-Knight card as well as a Light monster which doesn't appear to have much synergy with the rest of the deck.
  • At that point I was playing both Unexpected Dai and Brilliant Fusion, my dead draw count was increasing and I could not feasibly run Pot of Desires without running at least two of the Gem-Knight, Angel Trumpeter and possibly multiples of whichever Light monster I chose. I had to cut Pot of Desires as a result.

The Speedroid engine was an option I tried but it takes up your normal summon on Red-Eyed Dice, which is not ideal because then you aren't putting Dinomists into your extra deck for the pendulum summon. And as I mentioned earlier, if the best you can end on is 1 Titanic Galaxy with nothing else you might as well scoop and move to game 2 because the decks these days have way too high ceilings to lose to just one defensive extra deck card. I guess Double Summon is an option but it seems like you consistently need 4 card combos to make the ideal turn 1 field (probably something like Titanic + Bahamut/Infinity).

The deck seems like it would work better going second because of Brachion and Solar Wind Jammer (at least in the list I was testing with) but you don't really want to go second when the competitive decks have such powerful turn 1 plays to auto-win. Not to mention the idea of summoning stun monsters like Toadally Awesome or Titanic Galaxy doesn't seem as good if your opponent has already used their cards to establish a field before you could summon them.

If I have misunderstood the objective of the deck, and you are meant to pendulum summon later in the duel to Xyz rather than on the first turn, then I don't know why you would even bother with this deck at that point. I've always thought you would either try to OTK with Karakuris, or assemble a powerful field on turn 1 to take control of the game. grinding with a few different level 8 synchros doesn't seem like the most viable plan of attack.

I do think Instant Fusion is one of the best cards in the deck however, giving you Elder Entity Norden for Bahamut Shark and Panzer Dragon who is both a convenient level, and a Machine for the Karakuri synchros.

Overall I'm not convinced that Dinomists and Karakuri's have enough synergy to work well together, nor do I believe that Dinomists are one of the best choices to take advantage of Bahamut Shark and Toadally Awesome. There are probably cards you could use to solve some of these problems like stopping at the first Bureido, but I have no idea how you fit would those cards in when 15 of your slots at minimum are spent on Dinomists and Dinomist Charge in a 40 card deck.

For the record, the list I was practicing with is below:


While I'm sure there are improvements to be made in terms of ratios of certain cards and maybe extra deck choices, I'm convinced that the problems I encountered with the deck would persist. I still welcome suggestions and improvements, however.

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