Danwolf

YGOPro Sims

7 posts in this topic

I'm currently writing up an article about the current sims, and with a new one just released to the public thought I'd post here with a quick summary.

 

Current Available Sims:

  • YGO Pro 2
    The newest and most graphical in-game. Uses Unity 2 as the engine. It's also compatible with Pro Percy.
     
  • YGOPro Percy
    Pretty standard, and basic. Uses the same YGO Core as Dev/Salv/TDOANE. Updates new cards almost immediately as soon as they are announced by YGO Org, and pretty reliable. Also uses Checkmate / TrueSkill rating for the ladder.
     
  • DevPro
    Dev was the largest out of them until their issues with the server a month/2 ago. They have checkmate and have a standard ranking system, update often and was/might still be the best place to find competitive people.
     
  • Salvation
    Salvation stemmed from DevPro and is growing. They're also the first to release a manual mode, host regular tournaments and update cards frequently.
     
  • TDOANE
    TDOANE hides a lot of stuff behind pay walls, but has some decentish features. Only place that I know of that has semi-active teams for war. This may change if Pro 2 / DuelistUnite forums start doing teams to.

 

I did say quick summary. In the article I talk about the history/current owner. E.g. James leaving Dev to create Salv... if allowed I'll post my actual article or a link later that goes into a lot more detail regarding each one. I've not managed to really use Pro 2 yet so hence the hold up.

 

I can also add download links to each one of them - but not sure if that breaks the rules, you can pretty much find them just by googling name + YGO.

Edited by Danwolf
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I’ll go over each variant and why it exist and then my issues with it. I’m will be listing them in chronological order to me realizing the issues.
 

Preface
I originally ran into YGOPro Percy. Guybrush from DN and old friend had recommended it to me once the YVD10 project vs JDS project had ran off the rails. I used Percy via hamachi and then later Tunggle. Later on Percy avocated using the MyCard server and then later the Dawn server was created. I moved to the Dawn server and like the UI but it was clearly lacking in places. So starts my journey.


Originally I asked the FH github that Percy was constantly linking to and poked around. I asked the owner of MyCard for the server code and got told politely to GTFO. After that I go to work at Dawn. I was at a bad point in life, I needed money and I sold my ideas for improving Dawn to the owner of Dawn. He had a very clear “hiring sign up”.


Dawn
Working with the owner of Dawn I can only define as “falling deeper into hell”. He actively gaslighted staff and created increasing levels of hierarchy where logic and reality became less and less reasons to do things so much as low key pleasing his ego. I created a number of chat systems where because he felt the developers of the system knew too much about how they functioned even though they were vastly more secure, configurable, manageable, and fit the use case he would scrape them immediately and have us rework them using usually a paid product with less power and way more issues. He was constantly paranoid people were against him and advocated using psychological attacks against DN staff. He would create personas for himself and try to monitor us via them. I hate to start cross tracking his IP usage. I think the worst part was when I would show him a proof of concept he would scrap it for “aesthetic reasons”, deem the underlying mechanism worthless because I had not yet had time to paint the UI. Due to his poor programming skills and shit personality the server would constantly be hacked by this one particularly emotionally triggered trans-girl. The hierarchy he set up placed moderators of the chat with no technical skills above the developers who had technical skills and more importantly full access to the server and control of administrative privileges. He had a particularly dense marketing specialist that from as far as I could tell took extreme joy and was constantly seeking to emotionally harm others. I am not talking trolling, or a bit of trash talk. It was nothing but bullying. Could not get a “Hello, how are you” the normal conversation upstart dialogs; they would result in insults. 


DN suffered from a UI flaw where the amount of information on the screen that could be displayed in regards to a conversation was very little. This made having a conversation with someone, getting the attention of someone, or keeping the overall intelligence of a conversation very high difficult. The owner of Dawn sought out this style in his chat implementations making conversations in staff meetings a battle of extroverted personality. This created a vast number of problems in communication coupled with availability and hierarchy.


The launcher had the DB connection details for the server directly INSIDE of it. Decompiling it gave the end user admin access. He would not properly fix this even with what I could understand as a working understanding of PHP. The owner was also extremely obsessed with money, making money off YGOPro. This powered most his decisions and it lead to a host of bad decisions. He added a number of pay walls to the system ultimately that hinder it.

 

DevPro
Ultimately I took the staff of Dawn and left to create DevPro. Not under that crazy lunatic we where able to start trusting each other and work on building things. We decided to keep the server code closed as to not let the owner of Dawn get at it. We also took a large number of the user base forcibly by updating the launcher to point at our new server. That was a boon for us. The developers where able to make the system work because they where able to change most of the source code now without interference from an overlord trying to screw with mentally.


While working at DevPro I only gave input about what the design should be, I did not implement much if any of the design. I basically only wrote requirements and the developers implemented them (if they so choose). We did not have the finances to run a server so we had to get a donor. Ben stepped in to do this. Due to language barriers and Ben much like Dawns owner’s focus on a paywall the same paranoia and lack of trust crept into the system. I’m positive Ben made a few thousand dollars off of DevPro enough to start a small business. It was not untill he had strangled DevPro dry that he tried to get rid of all the other administrators via emotional manipulation. After a year of this my choice came down to protect my staff … again … like I did at Dawn. Overall the experience at DevPro was positive. I caused my co-owners much headache by keeping unskilled staff but I find it funny that that same unskilled staff is writing a competing sim after good mentoring. I feel the current owner can handle things and he has competent staff. My only critique is that he have more confidence in himself because he is more capable than he gives himself credit for.

After my departure Devpro released parts of its server system allowing more YGOPro variants to spawn like BattleCity MobileYGO and ThPro.


Salvation
I built my sim to reflect my own personal ideals of implementation. Its privately funded by my own income. I am only burning money on this project making money is not my goal teaching people and maintaining the community is. I can not say this about confidently for all of the other sims and active actors related to them. The hierarchy is very slim. I’ve limited any distinctions beyond “staff”. There are “departments” they are horizontal not vertically structured. All staff have access to the same level of adminiship as other staff members. The source is completely open this forces a special level of honesty. If I am doing a bad job or deamed incompetent anyone working on the project can basically just take it from me. No one on my staff can work with C++ so we are at the mercy of the decisions of the other sims. We could be wiped out due to a decision external to us. Due to this removing this dependency is our chief goal. I understand that I represent myself poorly to the public coming off as emotional, tone death, misogynistic, condescending and oversexed but I am the most accessible and communicative of the leadership.

 

The real YGOPro
This variant is controlled by a group stationed out of china. They maintain the UI core, and scripts. Landing code changes here is hard. The people with write access to the project largely do not listen to any of the YGOPro variants when it comes to the UI. This is why YGOPro is so unstable and Percy has an advantage over all of them. C++ is actually a difficult language for people to just pick up. Its taught in colleges but only at a fundemental level, and the code used in the UI is messy. They are OCG centric and follow the common chinese culture of business practice where crituque means no, being right about your critque of them means you are ignored and nothing is done except what they want to do. That is why YGOPro is shit. Poor opensource leadership, myself included.


Percy
My main issue with Percy is that his source code is not open sourced. I do not fully understand why this is. It keeps his sim “competitive” in comparison to the other sims but at the same time I question “why” he wants to be competitive. His site has ads on it but they are minimal so the income he is making can not be that much. Overall he does not communicate with the public openly. Only via news announcements. Also messaging him I was largely ignored. It was like talking to a wall. I had a far easier time conversing and learning from BLS of DN. (I have nothing but praise for BLS as a person from my experiences and urge other sims to pay respects)


His users behave in a strange non-rational religious manner at times as if not to question him, similar to how things where on DN. Its very clear he changes his code to be more competitive against other sims adapting their features or in some instances doing things to disable their features if they come to relying on him. I cant tell if he does this maliciously.

The few conversations we have had directly where him sending me short 1-3 line sentence request to comply with something or assert something was not his doing. These request as of late have been to not express my extreme displeasure with other developer doing maladaptive things like failing to communicate with other developers and wreaking their projects or deleting features as a result. 


Ever misclick in YGOPro? Apparently it was rude of me to tell other developers to not delete that feature. So he is closed source, not transparent in his motivation, drives competition not collaboration, breaks stuff, has little sense of social consequence, and has insulated himself from others bad code yet chastises us for being angry when other developers screw up. Odds are he will out live all of us. When Percy ask for something to be done there is rarely any reason to NOT do it. Its not him I question its his “staff”, because they dont feel like staff, they seem like religious priest translating omens to the masses.

What will tell me ULTIMATELY Percy’s intentions is if YGOPro 2 is a drop in or Percy centric platform. It is looking to be evolving to be the later at the moment but time will tell. It might be the people around him that make him look malicious to the other sims but the current task is more critical in moving YGOPro to Unity.

 

MyCard
I dont have a critique of mycard. The owner and staff there have only been nice to me and suffer the same problems I do. We share solutions and views. The owner is more talented than I am and it shows. I only wish her staff had more faith in themselves. Mercury taking over the project for a time lead to a revival of the project and he has been very benevolent and helpful to all sims. The staff is not PC and call stupid for stupid, if anything they are humble and hardworking. Its the only sim that is “feature complete”, only lacking translation and Percy’s private AI.

 

YGOPot
This is a really bad one. I have heard nothing but horrible things from the developers that have escaped it. Nothing like oh I quit cuz IRL like at MyCard or DevPro. Its more like “I was being exploited”. Occasionally the MyCard chat would explode because the owner would take the work of MyCard and not credit them and then actively compete. My understanding is that like Dawn he was in it for the profit and succeeded by selling the works of others. Until I see a repo from YGOPot landing source code or assisting a new sim spin up anyone praising this leader I will consider morally bankrupt.

 

YGOPro 2

Each of the YGOPro owners including myself are deeply flawed via ignorance, greed, communication skills, finances or a combination of them. There is a call for us all to work together but once you taste power it is very hard to let go of it. Additionally recently we all tried to come together but the PC culture of things is so choking that it literally spawned a new YGOPro variant as we spoke. There is a current conference to build YGOPro2 by all the sims. There are things here that bother me. Antimetaman is leading the project and not a sim owner. His behaviors are very manipulative and he behaves in an ignorant fashion toward the complexity of the endevor. A college student writing this whole thing by himself over the course of a year doesnt mean its easy it means he is dedicated. There was no definition of who will be hosting the server YGOPro2 is going to be connected to if one. If it was a gift to all of us to get from under FH’s burden or a new rival that we should welcome to our team in expressing overall evolution.

 

I had to excuse myself from the meeting due to accidentally doxing the owner of YGOPot and the later the appearance of Dawn staff. I’m told Percy “did not appreciate my actions”, by Antimetaman. The only thing I heard out of Percy while there where technical questions. His comment later on when I and others called out the main repos developers for removing the option to undo tributing/synchro summon misclicks this past month seems to verify he wants everyone to be PC. But being PC gets us no where. I sent my two most well behaved staff members to act in my best intrest but what they report back to me is essentially the Percy staff (sans-percy) acting in ways to politically leverage control of source code, money, staff and resources to themselves or Percy to what ends I dont know but I assume the extinction of the other variants. They keep feeding my staff and other staffs false information not know that each of my staff is trained to be an owner in their own right and understand everything they are saying. They have asked for me to remove or fire my own staff multiple times now for actions outside of YGOPro, I am sick of the drama.

 

Overall this is my conclusion. If asked to help or if someone needs direction I will without hesitation assist them (except Dawn and YGOPot) I will teach anyone in the community about this software. Direct them to where to find the things they need. Even write code for them. But fundamentally untill all this speak PC dont insult people for actively fucking you, calling out bad code, calling out bugs, behaviors that split the YGOPros, hiding code and the like stop I will not be seeking coalition beyond assisting in ygopro-pre-script which Salvation acts as the head beta zone. Passing scripts then off to DevPro.






If you are curious about examples of the behaviors I asserted about specific owners feel free to ask I can provide links.

https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro-core/commit/07a74fc18ae342f4f13b92127ab0fefad2bc1267
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro-pre-script/issues/11
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro-pre-script/issues/2
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/issues/1628
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/issues/1631
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/issues/1069
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/issues/387
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/pull/1663
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/pull/1514
https://github.com/Fluorohydride/ygopro/pull/1662

As you can see I get ignored a lot and other devs, and its not as if Im not saying the critiques that users have not said, or provided fixes. Same with my peers. This post was cathartic, I could go on for days on specifics.

Understand that the "cut" lines are at places where another person can not edit your code. DevPro's Server cant be edited but it has children variants that send it details and develop things that ultimately end up in its code base. Its devs are friendly to other developers that wish to join it and ultimately implement its features. But never anything around its server. Commiting code to Percy is difficult because you cant directly change it you have to send a diff of the original core to him convince him and wait for him recode your implimentation into his own core... this slows things. DevPro and MyCard just press buttons to do so after reviewing it. Salvations Staff cant edit DevPro's launcher due to not knowing C# but they CAN edit scripts which all the listed variants save Dawn do. The project is largely managed by a coalition of the listed sims except Dawn which as far as I can tell has not technical experts because they would threaten the owners ego.

Edited by Zayelion
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Cheers James, this helps largely with what I'm writing.

 

Thank you!

 

 

On that subject what's your plans for Salv? Will you have a ranking system / teams / pay wall?

Edited by Danwolf
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If the Percy/YGOPro2 teams do as I asked I'll replace YGOPro in salvation with YGOPro2 and continue working on manual mode. Ultimately I'd move the whole of the system to browser unless the other teams around YGOPro2 agree to work together. If our needs where met properly the variants would merge and deploy separate instances with a new base set of features. Then negotiate out leadership roles and start designing a more cohesive single pro system. Salvation would then move the other systems to web with us. My demands are :

1.) The community be protected from staff hierarchy
2.) Staff be protected from users
3.) All members have 100% opensource code.
4.) We set up a merger plan.

YGOPro2/Percy can get to web without us if they see this or not I dont know, but its more likely I see at the moment that Salvation get to full web before them because we spent a whole year before starting out designing the system. There are no forces stopping us from reaching our goals.

I left out my issues with DevPro why we split. Ben caused an argument with the other owner Buttys. Ben had implemented a "customer first" protocol where users could actively bully staff. If a staff member reacted they could financially pressure (bribe) Ben into removing that staff member. That resulted in my division losing staff or becoming inactive. Ultimately when I saw that Ben had manipulated Buttys into attacking my staff I called for a vote among my direct subordinates to leave or stay. We voted to stay save one person. After we where all setup Ben ... the actual problem quit. Ben had named the single staff member that was left behind SA17 owner of DevPro. I asked SA17 for ownership of DevPro back. I offered money for it, he declined. It serves his ego more to own it. I don't hold this against him but I and my staff feel like he bit off more than he could chew but he is adjusting well.

After we left Buttys assisted us for a few months in setting up and provided us with micro cores. Later the secondary owner of DevPro provided us and Dawn with new source code. My understanding is that DevPro has 4 "owners", SA17, Sid, Ice, and Buttys. But SA17 actually "owns" the server it is being hosted on. All 4 work on the software with SA17 being the least skilled.

I very much hate Dawn and while they are around I will be working on destroying it or removing its owner from power.

Edited by Zayelion
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From a user named Chumley on my server. I glanced over and noticed the following :

 

Quote

"Seto is a pain in the ass though. These days he fixes it were a pop up ad pm will always annoy you unless you buy a new ad blocker item
That dude is only ever thinking about cash
The ironic thing is I'm a beloved member of a popular team whose friends with most of the staff but all that doesn't matter because Seto personally despises me.
I was literally pretty good friends with the at the time head forum admin for Tdoane and on good terms with one of the main Server Admins but he refused to listen to them
He completely marginalizes his staff and even turns on his inner circle if they so much as voice disagreement with him [...] But dude dealing with Tdoane is traumatizing"


 

Quote

"I've seen worse. I'm like it's a blessing [DevPro] ain't like Tdoane staff
You know it's ironic put Tdoane's largest portion of players are Hispanic(They give Tdoane more traffic than DevPro) but I had to fight so they could have a Spanish Channel since Seto only made an English Chat but I ended up getting permamuted despite helping him better cater to his largist playerbase"


 

Quote

"The rules as they currently stand are basically designed to be so broad Seto can argue punishment was justified no matter the circumstance
Seto is an utter control freak"


 

Edited by Zayelion
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