victor

Darklord - Discussion

84 posts in this topic

So there are a lot of points to be made here:

 

On 7/9/2017 at 11:50 PM, Hoodwink said:

 

Did some testing with the Pend engine and it doesn't seem worth it. Timelords are strong. Darklords are pretty good once they get going, but getting to that point seems difficult. It just seems difficult to start the engine sometimes.

 

This is a little vague, what exactly do you mean by "getting going" or "starting the engine".

 

Actually dumping the Darklords in grave through drawpower, and digging for Contact?

Having Superbia in grave and Contact in hand

Having S/T in grave and Darklord on field

 

For both of those, you want Darklord cards in grave, and the starter card for that is Reasoning , but unfortunately Timelords can't be Summoned off it, and Heralds are bad with it, if you play them.

 

So that leads me to Transmodify , and that's pretty much a win-more starter, because it only works when you have a monster out, but:

 

1) you turn a DEF mode Superbia into a 2800 ATK Tezca who can cycle a S/T to offset the -1.

2) you turn a Darklord Nasten who has used its effect to a Superbia in ATK mode who can revive another Darklord (because unfortunately, You can only Special Summon "Darklord Nasten(s)" once per turn.)

 

--------------------

 

You'll notice all the starter cards + most Darklord cards are hit hard by Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring, where it could be worse than a 1 for 1.

 

That's why we need to consider PSY-Framegear Gamma because it works exactly when we need it, most of the time, we're trying to "get going" and "get the engine started" when we play Banishment, Darklord Ixchel, Pot of Desires, or other draw cards, we're digging for Contact, so we don't have monsters -> Gamma is live, and that gives you an LV 8 Synchro on your turn, that's the best counterswing.

 

This makes me think Yosenju Timelords might be better to consider, and they work great with Supreme King Dragon Darkwurm as well.

 

4 hours ago, Hoodwink said:

 

He's right, you can't SS Maiden if you used her grave eff. Something I find is that leaving 1 Timelord out often isn't very good, as they can just Castel it away or use a myriad of other removal options.  On a side note, how well would timelords work with cyber angels? You can use the field to recycle and special summon the level 10 Angel which is actually pretty good and can OTK by itself.

 

It's worth noting that Mound of the Bound Creator protects your Timelords and also your Darklord Ixchel, Tragoedia, and Trains!!

 

Magical Mid-Breaker Field does too, so Set Rotation with Revolving Switchyard... And you have the Timelord Attributes for Shaddolls?

 

Kamion the Timelord is offensive and as an EARTH LV 10 for Shekhinaga.

 

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What field to recycle? You don't have 10 Spells for Ritual Sanctuary?

 

Sure, you can Transmodify Time Maiden for Cyber Petit Angel and have it in grave to Banish for later, that's sounds okay.

 

But, Dimension Barrier, Ash Blossom makes life hard.

 

If Fluffals and Shinobirds can't compete, what makes Cyber Angels any better?

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Ash isn't seeing that much play anymore 

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15 hours ago, mark said:

Ash isn't seeing that much play anymore 

 

Why do you say that?

 

Looking at the NAWCQ, most of these decks are still maining or siding Ash.

 

http://yugioh.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=WCQ+-+2017-07-09+North+America

 

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One notable point some of you may have missed is Time Maiden only restrictions your Special Summons, not your Tribute Summoning capability.

 

So correct me if I'm wrong but you can Tribute a Timelord brought out by the 3rd effect, or just use Time Maiden as a Photon Thrasher, who has an effect in grave.

 

This lets us follow up a Metaion with a Vanity's or Majesty Fiend on a clear field, or dropping a LV 6 Monarch like Caius or Angmarl is pretty good.

 

Angmarl especially because Contact in hand is better than Contact in grave, since Superbia misses timing off a cycle, but works with Contact from hand.

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16 hours ago, mark said:

Ash isn't seeing that much play anymore 

I don't think you can find a much better card to side in against demise draco. 

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On 7/13/2017 at 7:51 AM, victor said:

 

Why do you say that?

 

Looking at the NAWCQ, most of these decks are still maining or siding Ash.

 

http://yugioh.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search_result.asp?Location=WCQ+-+2017-07-09+North+America

 

------------------------------

 

One notable point some of you may have missed is Time Maiden only restrictions your Special Summons, not your Tribute Summoning capability.

 

So correct me if I'm wrong but you can Tribute a Timelord brought out by the 3rd effect, or just use Time Maiden as a Photon Thrasher, who has an effect in grave.

 

This lets us follow up a Metaion with a Vanity's or Majesty Fiend on a clear field, or dropping a LV 6 Monarch like Caius or Angmarl is pretty good.

 

Angmarl especially because Contact in hand is better than Contact in grave, since Superbia misses timing off a cycle, but works with Contact from hand.

 

On 7/13/2017 at 8:21 AM, The_Be(a)sT said:

I don't think you can find a much better card to side in against demise draco. 

 

ok let me clarify

 

psy-frame gamma is a card that requires a brick (driver), so basically it has to be "really good" to compensate for that to begin with

 

now there's also the requirement that you have to have no monsters on the field. so would you maindeck it? depends. for example, if all it has going for it is negating ash, then I would want all my opponents to main 3 ash at least, because then it's good going 2nd and still ok going first the times my opp opens ash

 

but if people are siding ash, they I'm not maining this card as a counter to it for sure. now we could talk about siding it: but what are we siding it for? going first or second?

 

if we side it for going 2nd, well I guess it still blocks ash now, and it's pretty alright: I guess we could discuss this

 

if we side it for going 1st: I just think there are better cards to side. driver is always dead, and the gamma's are good if your opp opened ash but basically once you play a monster it becomes dead

 

there's a difference between throwing around cards / ideas / showing lists that topped a local or regional here and there, and actually suggesting a card in a concrete, useful scenario. that's what I'm getting at, too much of this is "this card does this, that card does that" which is really not that competitive at all

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when you look at the toplists you'll also see there's no darklord

 

like there's a difference between being innovating and thinking outside of the box (good) and outright not knowing when to give up on a bad deck (bad) 

 

you've been hyping this deck for the last months I think but has it ever been really relevant in the TCG? I've been playing DB ranked, warring, and playtesting vs people I know for a while now and I've literally never faced this deck, nor did I hear people talk about it outside of this thread

 

it shouldn't be in deck discussion in all honesty, the only "real" decks are:

 

pure zoo and true draco zoo

followed by demise true draco, paleozoic, magician

followed by rogue decks such as dino, invoked, etc. 

 

and I'd love to see people break the meta but to do that you first got to respect and understand the power of the topdecks, have played matches with them, know what they do and how to actually beat them, find a deck and actually playtest vs those top decks, and once you're actually going 50/50 against them you can talk about having found a deck that can compete. or if you're looking for a budget deck that stands a chance, then ok let's call it that. but I see people talking here about crap decks as if they could actually win YCS's and it's pretty sad, I just want those people to know what they're getting into

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also TCG =/= OCG

 

and locals/most regionals aren't relevant tournaments either (hell even if a single build tops a nats or YCS, it doesnt mean much, since out of the 32 top decks, there are always going to be a few random decks that just sacked their way through and that'll never see play again after that one event)

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6 hours ago, mark said:

also TCG =/= OCG

 

and locals/most regionals aren't relevant tournaments either (hell even if a single build tops a nats or YCS, it doesnt mean much, since out of the 32 top decks, there are always going to be a few random decks that just sacked their way through and that'll never see play again after that one event)

 

Mark, I think you're just feeling jaded and disillusioned right now, and not being helpful as a mod (remember back when you'd post helpfully in the Deck Garage?). Rather than promoting discussion and actvity, you're trying to stifle it, right when posts like what @NB96  made, are exactly what DGZ needs more of.

 

All the other discussions get no activity (because it's a vicious cycle), yet there's new stuff to discuss for this theme, and more coming down the pipe (see Trickstar Darklords being played in the OCG).

 

Right now, if I was to be brutally honest, for Yugioh, sometimes I feel, aside from the content I'm posting about Supreme King Dragon Darkwurm, Darklords, Spiral Hand Traps, etc., there's literally no reason to come to DGZ because all the other content you could see on DGZ can be found on other sites, and other sites are already talking about Link themes and so much more.

 

We need to generate more unique content on DGZ to have people reading, wanting to comment on, and contributing back. You and others aren't helping this in regard.

 

-----

 

Also, regarding your second post, there's been more than several times in DGZ history (especially during Sam Pedigo days), where what we've discussed only on DGZ, suddenly starts topping. I can provide examples if needed.

 

The fact that DGZ is becoming more of a hidden circlejerk on Discord, and continuing the vicious cycle of nobody posting unique generative content (is Monahan not posting like he used to, due to the warring incident?), makes nobody want to come here because who's going to wade through all the spam chat messages and chat history. And it's not historical, easily searchable through Google SEO (I just Googled and found this: http://duelistgroundz.com/index.php?/topic/166328-almost-trapless-burning-abyss/ )

 

The greats of the game, like Jeff, Patrick, Sam, Mike, Joe, all used to post here, but when there's no activity, there's no activity (there's no value for them to post). E.g. Trynet, Squiddy and Loli might not post because who's going to respond, they'd think.

 

@ACP tries with the Zoodiac thread, but aside from me, who else has DGZ got?

 

PS:

 

 

 


I've called out the TCG =/= OCG  gap,

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 1/5/2017 at 6:12 AM, victor said:


So I looked into this gap a bit and these are the differences between the OCG and the TCG, concerning this deck.

 

They have:

 

3 Upstart Goblin, Card Destruction - even more drawpower than us, and Card Destruction lets you dump Darklord cards and dig
Monster Reborn  - 4th Contact that lets you revive in ATK mode
Harpie's Feather Duster - more S/T destruction, but your DL Traps are chainable or played from hand via Nasten or grave, so you have an edge there
Super Polymerization - you can go into Starving Venom Fusion Dragon vs enemy Darks like Dark Law, you can break other fields as well, e.g. vs Metalfoes. And that is another card this deck is immune against.
3 EEV, maybe this is a bigger deal than I gave credit for earlier, because declaring Spell means the opponent can't just side in BoE, SoCL, Dark Hole, Raigeki and call it a day.

 

 
 

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I'm not trying to insult you or not being productive but outright every post you made for the last months show you arent aware of current tcg format, to the point where you probably don't play at all 

 

everyone knows it, really you're giving people the idea that these decks are actually competitive when they're not

 

I was trying to explain it to you but all your responses show you're too far off to the point where you just don't see it

 

i challenge you: play 10 matches casual ranked with those vs decent players with meta decks, to see how it does. Watch war matches, feature matches, see What's going on. 

 

Allens zoodiac thread was actually good and spot on. That's no where near comparable. 

 

Now I'm the bad guy for pointing it out but the elephant in the room has always been there. And I cant form a productive discussion with you when everytime I try to bring something competitive up (right now: pro's/cons of maining gamma or siding it and if so in what scenario's: not just bringing up a card which is easy, but actually discussing its uses). About cattle call, when Frogman and i tried to understand what it actually does we also got no response; yet you keep bringing up the card and I still don't understand what competitive purpose it serves. You say I'm delusional but you're literally making posts now about decks that don't exist; and you're largely underrestimating the current meta game and the continuous conparisons to older formats show this: there's a lot of power creep; zoodiac / true draco can +10 per turn, yes some creative decks may be valuable but it has to has the bases covered:

 

- consistency (has to open "playable" at least 80%+ of the time probably). Almost none of these decks have this as they're all gimmicky and rely on opening specific 3-offs 

 

- advantage: once the engine gets going it should provide advantage: bigger field, way to deal with threats, follow up plays 

 

- leaving a trap monster: this is something that's been going on for a while, but you need to leave drident / master peace (think about it: Kirin, ABC, Beatrice, this isn't a new thing; its been going on for years) 

 

- good first and second (although if its only good first it could still  be "Ok", it'd just be diceroll dependent that's all)

 

but actually more importantly right now:

 

- going second if you're facing drident what do you do. Just play some Dark hole Raigeki? What if they have ramram / mbaas. Play kaiju? What if they have traps to stop your play and now you get beaten by it next turn. my body as a shield? What if drident kills your s/t instead. Shuffle reborn? What if they paleo canadia / Book of Moon your monsters instead of killing it? Really it isn't easy to just out it. It requires your entire deck to be dedicated towards it. And this is easy part. There can be tornado Dragon/ dweller, there will be hand traps and backrow: maxz / ogre / ash is the easy part, it gets real tricky with the traps / but also the quickplay spells (BoM; my body as a shield, stuff like that). 

 

- Outing master peace 

 

- Outing diagram, the entire draco engine

 

etc. 

 

Really I don't mind people trying to beat meta decks with original decks. But they have to respect and understand those decks first. Right I don't feel like you do at all, which is why none of these builds you're suggesting have been doing much at all. But its possible: for example Paleozoic, when build in a good way, has a good pure zoo matchup esp when they don't expect it. But you have to know the meta inside out to know what cards to main cause these paleo builds look nothing like the old paleo builds.

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