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I absolutely refuse to ever play paleo even if it's the best deck, just because of the mirror matches.

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Can't you just auto-win by siding burn?

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21 hours ago, Soul said:

Attempting to get back in the game. Made this last night. I really, really suck with this, but a lot of the time I realized (esp with 60 cards) if you don't see some combination of demise, desires, and grass, the deck is really slow.

 

It reminds me of this formats Dino Rabbit in the sense that it's a viable lock down strategy, but it can start really slow. I mean you can't even open t1 Toad really w.o Swap and another frog. Would Surface be worthy of playing here?

You could try 3 Unexpected Dai + 3 Frog the Jam + 1 Rescue Rabbit as an engine to give your turn 1 boards more presence and let you be aggro quicker going second. I found it helps a lot, drawing vanillas without Swap Frog sucks but you have Paleozoic Dinomischus and a 60 card deck too.

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Posted (edited)

Deck isn't even that hard to beat really. There are so many cards that can interrupt your chains. The best solution I've seen is making toad turn one, because trying to make it with an on field frog and special summoning a paleo just doesn't cut it most of the time. I really like the unexpected dai idea.

 

also as a side note, it was recently ruled at regionals (don't know if this has any real bearing or if it was ruled this way at Denver or not) that you can activate a discard trap like wing blast or raigeki break discarding a paleo, and activate that same paleo to special summon

Edited by knives1990
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if you are really worried about the mirror 

 

BTS was probably the best card in the mirror when i played it. in grave and field. 

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9 hours ago, knives1990 said:

 

also as a side note, it was recently ruled at regionals (don't know if this has any real bearing or if it was ruled this way at Denver or not) that you can activate a discard trap like wing blast or raigeki break discarding a paleo, and activate that same paleo to special summon


Yeah this is correct, but only for traps that discard as cost. I'm pretty sure Konami specifically made Dinomiscus and Pikaia's discards be part of the effect so it wouldn't be possible to do this for those cards. But yeah, you can do it for Wing Blast/Raigeki Break.

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I've been playing some 60-card Paleo lately, mostly just a stock list, and I don't understand why people run Reckless Greed. In a 60-card list, it's pretty unlikely that you draw multiple Reckless Greeds together. The probability that you open multiple Reckless given that you opened at least 1 is only 7%. It doesn't do anything to protect your setups. Ok, it's a card that you can use it any time to trigger a Paleo, but I don't get why else we're playing it. Everytime I've played the card, it's just been overall quite mediocre. I feel like it probably just got ported over from 40-card lists without too much thought, but I also don't know too much about current Yugioh, so I'm certainly open to the possibility that it's really good for some reason that I haven't thought of.

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57 minutes ago, ACP said:

I've been playing some 60-card Paleo lately, mostly just a stock list, and I don't understand why people run Reckless Greed. In a 60-card list, it's pretty unlikely that you draw multiple Reckless Greeds together. The probability that you open multiple Reckless given that you opened at least 1 is only 7%. It doesn't do anything to protect your setups. Ok, it's a card that you can use it any time to trigger a Paleo, but I don't get why else we're playing it. Everytime I've played the card, it's just been overall quite mediocre. I feel like it probably just got ported over from 40-card lists without too much thought, but I also don't know too much about current Yugioh, so I'm certainly open to the possibility that it's really good for some reason that I haven't thought of.

 

I don't really know the math, but there are 9 Spells that give you advantage (3 Desires, Demise, Grass), and Reckless helps you towards them.

 

This deck is like a snowball with Toadally Awesome, and Reckless Greed both gets you started, and it snowballs with Opabinia (more Traps in hand via the draws, activate from hand, more plays).

 

I mean if you count the other generic Traps that don't depend on gamestate or when you go first or second, you can think of Waboku/Aegis/etc., but when you're winning those don't snowball.

 

It also works with Anomalocaris and Black Jack so it's not like you stop digging through your deck without your Draw Phases.

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I think you're kind of glossing over my point; I already know what Reckless Greed does. The problem is that it never seems to make me win a game that I otherwise would've lost. In addition, the card is super dead in the mirror, does practically nothing. Just to make a silly comparison, why is it that we want to run Reckless Greed but not Jar of Greed? They do essentially the same thing, but one is considered a staple and the other is considered unplayable. The problem is that Reckless Greed is only good in decks where skipping the 2 draw phases does not matter very much. This is usually going to be in decks that kill their opponent's quickly, as skipping 2 draw phases is irrelevant if your opponent is dead that turn. But Paleozoiac is the opposite of that. We're trying to play a long game. And in a long game, unless we draw our Recklesses together, we're actually going to wind up with more resources overall by playing Jar of Greed over Reckless Greed. Of course, another consideration is just to run Paleozoiac Pikaia. It does a lot of what Reckless does, doesn't make us skip two draw phases, and is a Paleo itself (therefore making our Grasses higher value etc). For the matches that I've watched, Reckless seems to underperform, and no one can seem to explain to me why it's good, just vague "lol it draws 2" reasoning.

 

I really feel like I'm having Deja Vu. Last time I got back into Yugioh 15 months ago, I picked up Monarchs, everyone was playing hand traps in their Monarch decks, but they consistently underpreformed whenever I watched a Monarch match, and it seemed like no one could explain to me why they were any good. Just "but what if you go 2nd", "maxx c draws cards", etc. Turns out everyone was just wrong and hand traps were terrible. It's made me become more skeptical towards deckbuilding conventions and makes me wonder if my intuition is right again.

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Posted (edited)

Ignore this post. I was wrong.

Edited by DAD 4 GAME
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Considering how much more of an impact Lost Wind made TCG-side compare to the OCG in regards to Paleozoics, I wonder how much of impact cards in MACR will have.

 

Specifically:

 

300?cb=20170429113704300?cb=20170505164459

 

I think it's interesting that this card doubles as Waboku/protection while also being disruption versus XYZing, and helps battle as well, all the while serving as XYZ fodder for Opabinia or aforementioned Javelin.

 

But you can argue we had Shapesister already, which didn't see much play (but this has value on either turn).

 

What do you guys think about this card?

 

-------------------

 

But on a more serious note, how does this deck out Master Peace if it is immune to monsters and Paleo traps?

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On 4/17/2017 at 1:59 PM, ACP said:

I think you're kind of glossing over my point; I already know what Reckless Greed does. The problem is that... and makes me wonder if my intuition is right again.

 

I have heard the card questioned before. I didn't run it in a 40 card list because I didn't think it was the best 40 cards. In my 60 card list I included it because:

-normal trap card

-get deck count to 60

-in non mirror matches the card seems to be a win condition. It helps you make opabenia/anomalocorus and the extra cards drawn with the pluses from your xyzs make the lost draws irrelevant. Also makes dinomiscos discard effect less severe.

 

In theory control decks want to draw cards so seems to make sense from that perspective. I assume it can backfire if you can't capitalise (typical in a slow mirror I presume).

I don't think the reasoning that you can use the draws with opabenia is particularly relevant in a 60 card deck but including your draw phase the chances of getting an additional paleo trap is probably still note worthy

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Is anyone thinking of playing this deck at Nationals? Thought I'd try to revive the thread... With the popularity of zoo so high I think that this would be a great pick, as well as the popularity of true Draco variants decreasing. 

 

Also I found the in engine out to masterpeace for this deck which I believe could be a game changer for the strategy.

 

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_Successor

 

You can send it with marella and then boost either toad or anomalicaris to out masterpeace. Most likely anomalicaris because it can also destroy the diagram.

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Posted (edited)

10 hours ago, Bistro said:

Is anyone thinking of playing this deck at Nationals? Thought I'd try to revive the thread... With the popularity of zoo so high I think that this would be a great pick, as well as the popularity of true Draco variants decreasing. 

 

Also I found the in engine out to masterpeace for this deck which I believe could be a game changer for the strategy.

 

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Skill_Successor

 

You can send it with marella and then boost either toad or anomalicaris to out masterpeace. Most likely anomalicaris because it can also destroy the diagram.

 

Isn't the main issue that Master Peace can pop whatever XYZ you make, so you'd need to have this in grave and be able to bait out Master Peace and be able to make a monster that can pop it + also get rid of Diagram? Also, something that could be cute is something like Needlebug Nest, which triggers the Paleos and also loads up the graveyard. Probably not worth it though. With the increase in Zoo decks, this deck is a whole lot better though. A lot of the attraction is that it can play 3 of Desires, Demise and Reckless, all of which can give you insane advantage.

Edited by Hoodwink
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Yes, if you make toad they can pop it with masterpeace. That's why I suggested anomalicaris because they can't pop it with masterpeace AND it can destroy the diagram so it solves both problems.

 

It still requires set up though and can be disrupted by tributing a trap or even masterpeace destroying a trap if they think about that. The plus is that you'll never waste the skill successor in grave so you can try it again later.

 

The other problem with the Draco matchup is that even the baby dracos can disrupt your plays by not letting you summon back your paleos from grave. I've been thinking of solutions to this and obviously kaiju but breakthrough skill as well. You can bait the activation with bts in grave then continue to activate traps to summon your paleos. This line requires you to play less interactive traps and more traps that increase increase your options or ceiling? ( Don't know what the correct term for this would be lol) stuff like reckless, needle bug best, Paleozoic pikaia possibly and chain burn traps such as accumulated (if they are chaining to your bts or like Ronin in grave->Draco-> bts-> accumulated), and jar of greed. Pretty much traps that you can flip on your own instead of traps that stop your opponent and rely on then to do something first.

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More copies of breakthrough would be good. Perhaps 2-2 of bts and lost wind would be optimal. Maxing out on Marella would give you access to 5 copies of a in grave BTS, while providing you with non-interactive traps. You could even play 3 Kuribandit and some copies of Duality to dig further and they wouldn't conflict with Demise, since you can choose to resolve demise first during the EP then Kuribandit.

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I thought about kuribandit but what this deck is good at is not interacting with drident much I think and kuribandit sucks against drident. Instead I thought about playing card trooper so you're at least guaranteed the draw but I'm not sure if I'd even want to play that. 

 

I was already playing marella maxed.. What other traps for the 'non-interactive' criteria can you think of because I'm kinda stumped besides reckless and other draw cards

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