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Starlight Warrior

Gishkill: Can It Be Revived and Modernized? (OVER A YEAR OLD, CURRENTLY UNUSABLE)

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+Gojira    1731
6 hours ago, ACP said:

I still think that Soul Charge is better than Photon Lead. 1-of Shadoll Beast is definitely correct. 1-of Desires is probably fine. I'd probably do something like:

 

3 Gishki Shadow

3 Gishki Vision

2 Royal Magical Library

1 Evigishki Soul Ogre

1 Evigishki Levianima

1 Evigishki Mind Augus

1 Evigishki Gustkraken

1 Shadoll Beast

 

3 Gishki Aquamirror

3 Hand Destruction

3 Into the Void

2 Magical Mallet

3 Moray of Greed

3 Salvage

3 Trade-In

1 Upstart Goblin

1 One Day of Peace

3 Cup of Ace 

1 Soul Charge

1 Pot of Desires

 

Even with Upstart and Chicken game at 3, I still don't think this deck would be good enough. Our FTK rate just isn't high enough.

This definitely seems on track. 1 desires is actually great in this deck since you can easily search out the essential pieces. Cup of ace is still kinda trash though

 

20 minutes ago, Bazaar of Baghdad said:

 

Yes, his post actually is that terrible. Nobody on this site would chime into an active discussion, "Yup, Person A figured it out, that's all there is to it. Thread's over. By the way. just play X, Y, or Z, since nothing else is playable." And if they did I'd 100% still be calling them out. I actually have no words for you thinking that his post warrants a counterargument. Obviously the 3 big decks of the format are worth playing, what the fuck does that add to the discussion? This thread is about trying to get Gishki to work again, to check to make sure nobody is missing anything. His post not only has nothing to do with the topic, he's trying to stop discussion of the topic altogether. In the context of this thread his post has no place, and the way he said it discourages discussion. If you can't see the issue with posts like that I don't know what to say to you.

 

 

This is kinda cool, Are there any combo relevant rank 4s other than Daigusto Emeral? Or something you can play that cashes in Scales for cards somehow?

There isn't. There are multiple rank 4s that add cards from deck to hand, but they're all irrelevant card types.

you could run a water lv1 to get with Abductor for Moray/Magical Mallet. Probably too convoluted though.

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JAPANESE GOBLIN    2182

yeah emeral is p cool. the only other rank 4 i can possibly imagine being more than just blank spaces for going second is illumiknight and thats probably way too ambitious.

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+mmf    23262
50 minutes ago, Bazaar of Baghdad said:

This is kinda cool, Are there any combo relevant rank 4s other than Daigusto Emeral? Or something you can play that cashes in Scales for cards somehow?

 

this probably goes without saying, but 2 shadow = shark + toad, for whatever it's worth. prob just useless here cause it's not gonna be a win con on its own in this deck

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»victor    6400

Why don't you guys play Talaya, Princess of Cherry Blossoms (WATER LV 8) with Rose Paladin and ROTA?

 

Maybe another way could be:

 

3 Dogma

3 Plasma

3 Fusion Conscription

3 Gameciel

 

3 Destiny Draw

3 Trade In

Terraforming

Waterfront

 

Trying to abuse drawpower for Waterfront to search more drawpower fodder?

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+Gojira    1731

3 fusion conscription is a lot of dead draws. Also, I think gamecial is best left in the sideboard. It's pretty easy to get access to the lv8/waters in this deck. They're what mostly lead to the dead draws anyway.

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Me.    1348

Maybe I'm playing the deck wrong, but the hands where I need to activate the desires are not the same hands where I can make sure the combo pieces are out of the deck. That said, there probably isn't a card to play that gives a higher EV in those situations.

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+Gojira    1731
6 hours ago, Me. said:

Maybe I'm playing the deck wrong, but the hands where I need to activate the desires are not the same hands where I can make sure the combo pieces are out of the deck. That said, there probably isn't a card to play that gives a higher EV in those situations.

the minimum to combo is a level 8, mind augus, library, and aquamirror. I think the probability of exiling all the pieces is less than 50%, so it's still better than cup of ace, at least.

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+ACP+    34064

You need either both LV6s plus aquamirror and a lv8 or library, aquamirror, augus, and both lv8s in order to combo. You also can't banish all of your Salvages, Trade-Ins, or Hand Destructions.

 

Cup of Ace is strictly better than Desires in this deck. Unfortunately we can't just run 10 copies of Cup of Ace though.

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+Gojira    1731
3 minutes ago, ACP said:

You need either both LV6s plus aquamirror and a lv8 or library, aquamirror, augus, and both lv8s in order to combo. You also can't banish all of your Salvages, Trade-Ins, or Hand Destructions.

 

Cup of Ace is strictly better than Desires in this deck. Unfortunately we can't just run 10 copies of Cup of Ace though.

Cup of Ace reduces you to 50% win or lose on the spot pretty often. I don't think that's a good card. Sure on average it's an upstart goblin, but generally you're using a single copy early on and it can just screw you.

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Me.    1348
Just now, Gojira said:

Cup of Ace reduces you to 50% win or lose on the spot pretty often. I don't think that's a good card. Sure on average it's an upstart goblin, but generally you're using a single copy early on and it can just screw you.

50% win 50% lose on the spot is like really good in the context though.

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+Gojira    1731
1 minute ago, Me. said:

50% win 50% lose on the spot is like really good in the context though.

I honestly think Dark world dealings might give you a better win rate. I'll be goldfishing a lot though. I might just make a program to goldfish for me tbh, then it'll be clear.

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+ACP+    34064
4 minutes ago, Gojira said:

Cup of Ace reduces you to 50% win or lose on the spot pretty often. I don't think that's a good card. Sure on average it's an upstart goblin, but generally you're using a single copy early on and it can just screw you.

No it doesn't. You clearly haven't played the deck. Realize that in "draw live or lose" scenarios it's actually better than an Upstart Goblin.

 

For example, take the opening 5: Aquamirror x2, Mind Augus, Gishki Shadow, + X. In this scenario, it's better than have X be Cup of Ace than Upstart Goblin, because a draw 1 is almost certainly not good enough to allow you to FTK this turn, but a draw 2 might be.

 

On average, Cup of Ace is a One Day of Peace that doesn't prevent damage, and the variance associated with the card is not that big of a deal, because there are ways to minimize the variance.

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+ACP+    34064
3 minutes ago, Gojira said:

I honestly think Dark world dealings might give you a better win rate. I'll be goldfishing a lot though. I might just make a program to goldfish for me tbh, then it'll be clear.

Tyler already botted it 3 years ago, and Cup of Ace gives you noticeable improvements in your winrate over Dark World Dealings. The deck hasn't changed too much since then, so I don't see why it would be any different now.

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Cup of Ace actually being good was the most depressing result I've ever gotten, but it's true.

 

Also, you should be fine losing all of your Trade-Ins, right? Library generates enough cards where you can loop Dealings, doesn't it? Banishing Hand Destruction is similar, the end loop is with Gustkraken anyway so I'm pretty sure we're not relying on Hand Destruction piles for the loop.

If you get a 2nd Library in play I'm pretty sure you can get away with no Salvages, but I might be wrong there. 

But yeah, in the end Desires is probably one of those things that leads to interesting puzzles, but is totally miserable to actually play in your deck for a tournament. If it's in your bottom 11 cards it's almost a brick, and you probably can't activate it reasonably until you've gone through 10+ cards. 

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+Gojira    1731
3 hours ago, ACP said:

No it doesn't. You clearly haven't played the deck. Realize that in "draw live or lose" scenarios it's actually better than an Upstart Goblin.

 

For example, take the opening 5: Aquamirror x2, Mind Augus, Gishki Shadow, + X. In this scenario, it's better than have X be Cup of Ace than Upstart Goblin, because a draw 1 is almost certainly not good enough to allow you to FTK this turn, but a draw 2 might be.

 

On average, Cup of Ace is a One Day of Peace that doesn't prevent damage, and the variance associated with the card is not that big of a deal, because there are ways to minimize the variance.

While I believe that it increases your win rate if Tyler found that, your argument doesn't make sense. By that same token, it also creates hands that are "draw live or lose" scenarios. For instance, take a hand containing hand destruction and cup of ace going first (without both a ritual and aquamirror to discard). If you whiff on cup of ace you cannot win. In that scenario it's probably better to just pitch it to hand destruction. Similarly, a starting hand containing library and cup of ace will usually only work if you win the flip, unless you have 2 other draw spells in hand.

 

 

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+ACP+    34064

What doesn't make sense? I'm just pointing out that there are some scenarios where Cup of Ace can be the nuts. Yes, there will be games that you will lose because your Cup of Ace is not an Upstart Goblin. But these will be to some extent balanced out by games that you win because your Cup of Ace is not an Upstart Goblin. Take, for example, this excerpt from my YCS San Diego tournament report, "After drawing through my deck as much as I can my field is something like a Library with 1 counter and 2x Soul Ogre + 2x Aquamirror. I realized that my only reasonable plan was to ritual summon Soul Ogre, add Soul Ogre back to my hand and shuffle the Aquamirror into my deck. Then ritual summon the second Soul Ogre by tributing the first, adding the 3rd counter to Library. Then I'd have to draw a card and hope to windmill slam a bunch of live spells off the top. Obviously the first card I draw is Cup of Ace, which is a Pot of Greed. Then I play a couple more spells and hit another Cup of Ace, which is also a Pot of Greed. I draw through my whole deck and he scoops with 11 minutes left on the clock." You might say, "Wow ACP, you got really lucky." Well yeah, obviously I did. But that's the kind of game where it's almost impossible to win if our Cup of Aces are Upstart Goblins.

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