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banefulscolumn

Flaws of Goat Format. What would you change about it?

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While one of the best format, the biggest downsize I believe is that decks are too similar.  The card pool is perfectly sized at about 100-200 cards in total, but most decks have the same 20 cards and many deck have the same 30-35 cards.  Perhaps instead of releasing crap cards, Konami could have released cards to compete with staples.  Maybe a defense-hate card that would make people think twice about blindly running Nobleman.  Same could be said of Tribe, Breaker, Book.  Maybe a card that rewards people in some way for not using the staples.

 

As far as the altering the April 2005 list, in modern takes on the old format, there needs to be a balance between tweaking things and not straying too far.

 

Forbidden: Pot of Greed, Last Turn, Cyber-Stein

Limited: Exarion Universe, Trap Dustshoot, Book of Taiyou, Skill Drain, Gravity Bind, Level Limit Area B, Giant Trunade, Dimension Fusion

Semi-Limited: Solemn Judgment

Edited by banefulscolumn
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Building on the thought I had above, I thought about creating a small set of custom cards to be added as a fun format.  The point here would be to reduce the amount of dominating strategies and obvious choices so that there would be more thought in deck-building and more diversity in the meta.  For the sake of simplicity, I'll use the same-name clause to prevent abuse.

 

Sinister Eel

LV1 WATER Aqua 300 400

This card cannot be discarded as a cost.  When this card is sent to the graveyard by a card effect or by battle, it is immediately returned to your hand.

This card is treated as "Sinister Serpent".

 

Sinister Snake

LV3 EARTH Reptile 900 850

When this card is sent to the graveyard from the field or from an opponent's discarding card effect, it is immediately returned to your hand.

In the latter case, your opponent takes 800 damage.  This card is treated as "Sinister Serpent".

 

Tribe-Infecting Sickness

LV4 WATER Aqua 1600 1000

Discard 1 card.  All monsters the opponent controls are switched to Defense Position, their DEF becomes 0 and their effects on the field, and in the graveyard, are negated.  This card is treated as "Tribe-Infecting Virus"

 

Tribe-Infecting Pandemic

LV4 WATER Aqua 1600 1000

When this card is Normal Summoned, destroy all monsters on the field.  You cannot attack directly during the turn you activate this effect.  This card is treated as "Tribe-Infecting Virus"

 

Breaker the Magical Knight

LV4 DARK Warrior 1900 1000

You can discard this card from your hand to negate the effect of a Trap Card that would destroy a monster you control.

This card is unaffected by the opponent's Trap Cards.

This card is treated as "Breaker the Magical Warrior"

 

Breaker of Light and Shadow

LV4 LIGHT Spellcaster 1600 1000

When this card is destroyed by battle or a card effect, destroy 1 Spell or Trap card on the field.

This card is treated as "Breaker the Magical Warrior"

 

Nobleman of Elimination

Quick Play Spell Card

Target 1 Defense Position monster ; Destroy it.

This card is treated as "Nobleman of Crossout".

 

Nobleman of Erasure

Normal Spell Card

Target 1 Defense Position monster ; Shuffle it into the owners' deck.

This card is treated as "Nobleman of Crossout"

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knives1990    245

So you're taking goat format, creating your own banlist within that format, and making up cards to add to the format as well. None of it makes sense

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Jazz    4712

We worked on the Goat(-) format for several months last year before DN shut down. The idea was to preserve the skill of the format but remove the bullshit.

 

Your complaint about every deck running the same 20-30 cards is silly. This will always be the case no matter what you ban in the format because decks are not as specialized as they are in modern yugioh. Your proposed solution doesn't solve that "problem" either.

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+Mascis    4338

>pot of greed

>not duo

 

hahahahahahaha

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Jazz    4712

The most ridiculous changes are GB and LLAB to 1 that literally does nothing to the format

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+Digbick    7358

play another format instead

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I want to apologize for putting out posts with half-baked ideas.  I didn't have the time to explain them the other day.  Several of my custom cards were either overpowered or redundant, so I'm pulling the idea for custom made cards for now until I'm sure I have a roster of balanced diversed cards.

 

As far as the revisions to the April 2005 ban list go, here's my updated list. 

 

Banned:

* Pot of Greed - Not just because it's overpowered, but because it's skill-less.

* Delinquent Duo - So that Sinister, Sangan and Magician of Faith are optional.

* Last Turn - Degenerate

 

Limited

* Trap Dustshoot 

* Exarion Universe 

* Giant Trunade 

* Dimension Fusion

* Skill Drain

* The Shallow Grave

* Book of Taiyou

 

Semi-Limited

* Exiled Force - Both are balanced removal options and outs to BLS/TER

* Lightning Vortex

 

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+Gemstone Mine    2583

pretty sure you can't even say pot of greed is skillless because it's not always the correct move to slam the pot of greed as soon as you draw it. It usually is, but not always. It's imo not even that overpowered.

 

duo: The fuck is that logic? They wouldn't be optional, you would still 100% use mof sangan sinister in goats.

 

your limits are honestly nonsense. For the most part we should let the format police itself rather than actively discouraging bad decks.

 

Your semis would likely not change a damn thing.

 

 

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Jazz    4712

It's kind of insulting considering Kris, Mascis, Skully, Logic, and I worked on goat(-) for 3-4 months. We actually tested a bunch of games and had a clear goal in mind (preserve the identity of the format but remove some bullshit so it's more skill-based and consistent, so that you would be more comfortable playing a money match best of 3).

 

I suggest you test out goat(-) and work from there. I already posted the list in this thread.

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Jazz    4712
1 hour ago, Gemstone Mine said:

pretty sure you can't even say pot of greed is skillless because it's not always the correct move to slam the pot of greed as soon as you draw it. It usually is, but not always. It's imo not even that overpowered.

 

duo: The fuck is that logic? They wouldn't be optional, you would still 100% use mof sangan sinister in goats.

 

your limits are honestly nonsense. For the most part we should let the format police itself rather than actively discouraging bad decks.

 

Your semis would likely not change a damn thing.

 

 

 

Duo and Pot are legitimate "honor bans" because they can lead to blowout games where one player simply doesn't stand a chance. However it's debatable whether we actually want to make this change because it weakens decks that use Tsukuyomi + Magician of Faith.

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Regardless of whether laxing cards on the list will do anything, if they don't warrant a hit, they shouldn't be on it.

 

I'm open to discuss the limits you disagree with if you tell me what they are, but the justification for Empty Jar being viable is scant.  If FTK's are okay, should Makyura be legal?

 

My issue with Pot of Greed is not just that it's overpowered and it effectively generates the +1 you'd normally have to get from several trade-offs.  The issue is that, yes, 95%+ of the time it is a simple play-it-as-soon-as-you-get-it card.  Exceptions are a distant minority, and that point, you could justify The Forceful Sentry on those grounds.

 

I judge everything based on a Ground Zero logic.  If Pot of Greed had never existed at all, and someone proposed the idea of it right now to be added to a modern Goat format, would you approve of it?  Probably not.

 

The only justification of the Empty Jar-Makyura paradox is that Konami Said So.

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Jazz    4712

Since I guess you aren't clicking the link I posted, here is our list:

 

Goats(-)
Pre-Exarion


Ban:

Card Destruction

Chaos Sorcerer

Cyber-Stein

Delinquent Duo

Dimension Fusion

Giant Trunade

Pot of Greed

Last Turn

Return from the Different Dimension

Trap Dustshoot

 

So it's effectively 10 bans or 11 bans depending on how you count. It's a simple list and gets rid of a lot of the bullshit decks and cards that are unstoppable and over-powered in certain situations, such as in the opening hand or very late game. Cards that add luck of the draw to the format.

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Jazz    4712

One idea behind that list is that it shoehorns everybody into playing Goat mirrors, but we didn't test enough against Zoo or Burn to see whether those decks were still viable. The idea is you could challenge someone to a best of 3 Goat(-) money match and expect to get a Goat Mirror and the winner would be determined on skill the vast majority of the time.

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NB96    779
2 hours ago, Mickey said:

I would ban every otk ftk alt win decks 

You can beat most of them fairly easy though if you use a side deck, or even just come up with loops with Magician of Faith to break down certain setups if you have the right options to add back. I don't think they're such a problem, and even if they were if you just played 3/5 matches instead of 2/3 that weakens them even more. These kind of decks tend to excel in g1 usually. Mind you I'm not that good at this format so maybe I'm missing something.

Edited by NB96

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Soul    7986

the notion that pog and duo hurt mof's playability is rly dumb imo. theres plenty of other spells you would want to get back, esp in goat, such as meta.

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The problem with MoF for Meta or Snatch is that those aren't cards that typically get used early. Pot and Duo make your MoFs good fast, where if you need to wait for your first TER to die to get good value off your Faiths the card becomes way more awkward. The other spells that get used early are just one for ones, Book, MST, NoC, etc. While those cards are fine and obviously good, they aren't worth waiting for a MoF to flip to reuse in the same way that Pot, Duo, Grace, Storm, etc. are.
Sure, you could run out your Snatch, or Heavy at a suboptimal time so your Faith can get better value, but then what if your MoF gets NoC'd? Now you just look kinda silly. 

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+mark    2935

It's still a LV1 light flip though 

 

Like the worst that can happen is that some builds will play 1 instead of 2 

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+ACP+    33889

It is exceptionally rare that I lose a game of goat format because my opponent opened some or all of the trinity. Sure, I might lose to something like Pot of Greed+Saku+Tsuku+Faith (if I didn't open Crossout), but Pot of Greed and Duo themselves are incredibly tame. Some people have good intentions I'm sure, but 99% of the people who want these cards banned would just rather complain than actually learn how to play back from these kinds of openings.

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