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Currently Forbidden Cards that Would be Unplayable at 3

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The Ween    237

To be fair, there may have been some benefit in siding in DiFi going second in the mirror, since you could pitch your babies, make your plays, then drop it before going for the extra to cut off veiler and scarecrow during the otk attempt. Like obviously that wouldn't stop Maxx, and obviously it wasn't nearly as good as vanity's, but I could see that having been something that could work at one event and catch people by surprise. A big part of that format was the constant introduction of cards like puppet plant, electric virus, etc. that would vary in usefulness depending on what people were playing around.

 

Still, vanity's is the best. And Evilswarm would make the handtraps pretty redundant without needing another spell. I just think there is something to be said for playing a card that essentially reads "your hand is perfectly irrelevant this turn".

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»victor    6400

Regarding mark's floodgate speculation, I don't think that would have happened because people had caught onto Psi-Blocker in DRulers, not to mention stuff like Raigeki Break / PWWB were played.

 

People were playing Trap Stun anyway, to counter RFTDD and Sixth Sense, and to turn off Vanity's and keep it up, so it's unlikely Traps would have been considered. And also the Royal Decree, Scrap Dragon interaction was noteworthy for its time, i.e. people played Decree with a trap lineup, or they played Decree to negate Solemn Warning, got Scrap out and popped Decree for it.

 

And you had stuff like Burial from a DD so banishing Rulers, you had a way of bringing back resources. And there's in theme outs like Hieratic Dragon of Su, Wingbeat of Giant Dragon, and so on.

 

--------------

 

As was said, the fact that Ra Sphere Mode is actually seeing play now, should be indicative of something, or how Darklords can Lava Golem without the NS and being able to Trade In, it is pretty much about the turn 1 board, and it will still continue to be, because of Drancia.

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mark    3105

I think we're talking a different format though. I'm talking baby ruler spellbook judgment format. The cards you mentioned happend in the format after, when the baby's etc got banned. Since everyone mained MST Raigeki break etc, you're right that floodgates were less effective, and it was a slower format all together. I remember sixth sense actually being bad, but everyone who dared cutting it or play call 3/4 would get a lot of shit for everyone. Although it's the definition of a gamble card and hitting wrong could outright lose you the game although hitting right meant auto-win.

 

Regarding evilswam/spellbook, that could very well be possible. Depends on the format and your overall matchup against the board. I thought it was consensus that evilswarm sucked regardless though and that dragon ruler would always win because of sheer power level, but maybe one could build it in another. Going 2nd would be the biggest problem. Like I understand what everyone's saying but the floodgate plan could be optimized so you wouldn't play a regular build with hand traps anymore except maybe maxx C when going second. But I'll leave it for what it is now, we'll never really know. 

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IRLAlex    116

I know this is a huge necro but this place isn't exactly alive (but with what I know) I really disagree on Elma.

 

Hidden Armory to grab Elma

ROTA (Is this at 3?) grabs Gearfried

I'm almost certain there's a similarly easy way to search out RML too.

Add a bunch of scales, pendulum to avoid HA's NS restriction, profit.

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»ACP    33421

Elma+Gearfriend+RML is a 3 card combo, 5 card combo if you count both the scales. What's even your win con? Exodia? Sounds terrible. Realize that Zoodiac is already regularly drawing 4 or 5 cards on its 1st turn and the "combo" is often only 1 card. It's not that Dagger combos are objectively bad; it's just that you can do so much better than that in today's format. Power is always relative.

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+Gemstone Mine    2596

couldn't you respond to the dagger with cosmic cyclone? Which a lot of people are packing 3 of in main/side?

 

Also, that combo still sounds awful. I'm sure you could work out a igknight decklist that would work, but you insta-lose every game you go second to decks like zoodiac. They literally just have to play a drident/master peace and you fold like an origami crane.

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IRLAlex    116
2 minutes ago, ACP said:

Elma+Gearfriend+RML is a 3 card combo, 5 card combo if you count both the scales. What's even your win con? Exodia? Sounds terrible. Realize that Zoodiac is already regularly drawing 4 or 5 cards on its 1st turn and the "combo" is often only 1 card. It's not that Dagger combos are objectively bad; it's just that you can do so much better than that in today's format. Power is always relative.

 

2 minutes ago, Gemstone Mine said:

couldn't you respond to the dagger with cosmic cyclone? Which a lot of people are packing 3 of in main/side?

 

Also, that combo still sounds awful. I'm sure you could work out a igknight decklist that would work, but you insta-lose every game you go second to decks like zoodiac. They literally just have to play a drident/master peace and you fold like an origami crane.

 

Fair enough. To be honest, I'm a couple of formats behind. 

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»ACP    33421
1 hour ago, Ultimate Buffalo said:

Mjar 2 still clears a board and since the XYZs wouldn't return to the deck they wouldn't get any monsters

So Raigeki is at 1, Dark Hole is at 2, Interrupted Kaiju Slumber at 2, and you're worried about Morphing Jar #2 clearing a field of extra deck monsters for free if they aren't able to out it? Card sucks.

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they destroy mind. So it gets out to Laggia  etc and doesn't trigger destruction effects, and can clear in battle phase.  would it be horrendous at 1 prob not.

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»ACP    33421

Ok so you think a card that is a niche out to Laggia deserves to be banned or even limited? Keep in mind, when Dino Rabbit was the best deck, Morphing Jar #2 was legal and saw no play. In fact, the card has never seen play in any top tier deck in the history of the game.

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no way, just saying it has its uses, and can be pretty potent at board wipes, but like said a lot outs it now 

 

but the other main reason to thinking of was the long ass otk/stall decks with it and shadow scout faith etc/attack orders and other degenerate nonsense that took 20 minutes a turn to resolve , kinda like the meta now lol

Edited by Ultimate Buffalo

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+Gemstone Mine    2596

weren't both jars banned out when we got a formally seperate list from the ocg, and konami tcg went ham and banned out every outstanding combo deck like self destruct button final countdown and empty jar?

 

Even if they were never relevant meta-wise, pretty sure that's why they're still banned.

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»Pharaoh Atem    15769

nah fam, jackpot 7

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Honest    12

I'll be playing Chain Burn with 3x Mirage and 3x Fairy Wind in your format.

Edited by Honest

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Brandis72    35

What about adding banned archetype support too?

All of the Dragon Rulers, but no babies (lol deck is actually powercrept now; too slow and has no good T1 boards; babies might bring over the top though)

Super Rejuvenation (no babies, and DDDE is irrelevant)

Performage Damage Juggler (what will it ever do without plushfire...)

Performage Plushfire (... but even plushfire isn't broken enough to make PePe/Dracopal T0, although it may be significantly better)

Super Polymerization (Invoked isn't good enough this format, and although this will make them noticeably better, they still won't break the format)

El Shaddoll Construct (pff... long powercrept)

Tellarknight Ptolemaeus (Infinity with Rk4 is not broken anymore, although it's still good; might be sweet DracoPal support)

Mind Master (even with multiquasar comboes, it still won't do anything, the same way Dark Synchro isn't doing anything)

Cyber/Morphing Jar if they weren't already mentioned (Empty jar is worse than Gatling Ghoul Igknight, and the latter is still irrelevant) 

Elemental HERO Stratos (HEROes will still be too weak to do anything with it at 3... getting +3 on turn 1 simply isn't enough, and even then requires AHL to truly create insane stuff)

Destiny HERO - Disk Commander (Cute, but too inconsistent and slow to be relevant)

Apoqliphort Towers (Master Peace exists and decks are being built to out it... besides, S39 exists)

Fishborg Blaster (We have full power Dark Synchro, and it's doing absolutely nothing, despite being way more consistent than Fish OTK)

Wind-Up Carrier Zenmaity (even FULL POWER WU would be terrible this format: handtraps exist)

Gateway of the Six (Same as Zenmaity)

Royal Tribute (it suffers much like gateway from being unsearchable, and is thus garbage because its deck isn't powerful enough to win without it)

 

Last Will would also be a subpar engine piece that does nothing by itself, and Sixth Sense (much like Mirage) would once again be too slow to do anything relevant.

TIV is really not that good, even in Mermail/Atlantean... it costing a normal summon IS relevant, as it's just going to get hit with disruption before it can do anything, unlike Kaijus/Field Nukes.

Edited by Brandis72

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+scuzzlebutt    23491

idk im pretty sure if u gave me like 12 hours i could figure out some stupid shit to do with fishborg blaster in a modern format. maybe not the one we have right now, but recent enough to where it would still look unhealthy to unban

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+scuzzlebutt    23491

i didnt notice royal tribute was still limited, that's kind of funny

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Do we really want Shaddoll Fusion sending Fairy Tail Snow? I certainly don't want to live in a world where that is possible. 

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It's marijuana logic.  If it's illegal, then it stays illegal if there's even a small shadow of doubt, but if something degenerate has always been legal, it is tolerated.

 

I tend to judge everything based on ground-zero logic.  Tradition doesn't matter.  Current hype doesn't matter.  It either adds up logically or it doesn't.

 

 I agree with ACP's overall point.  However, some cards on the list aren't there because of playability.  A card can be mediocre but still degenerate.  Potential interactions with cards released in the future are kept in mind.

 

Also, El Shaddoll Construct would be fine at at least 1.  And only got banned because of planned obsolecence.

Edited by banefulscolumn
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+scuzzlebutt    23491

dont free construct

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