NB96

Zoodiac - Discussion

162 posts in this topic

edit; nvm, I'm wrong.

 

But have people seen the ocg starting to use that true king/zoodiac hybrid deck? They don't have ratpier or drient or barrage, and it's still a deck, but there have been a couple lists of splashing master peace and diagram into their zoodiac deck.

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New format just started. I feel as if there are 4 variants of this deck that could be considered viable.

BA zoo

True king zoo

Lightsworn zoo

Pure 

 

Metalfoes..... maybe??

 

Anyways moving forward, I like BA zoo being able to consistently spit out invokers, and the hand traps that are played, besides maxx, dont particularly hurt the Burning abyss engine. Also has a consistent way to a Kaiju in Beatrice+ Slumber.

 

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Has anyone actually tested BA zoo,? it sounds terrible in theory with the fact that you need to play a sufficient amount of them to draw together that you wouldn't be able to play key zoo cards needed. Secondly a lot of synergy off of BA is the ability to mill them  which also doesn't synergize well with a zoo deck unless you are playing  a ton of BA. Lastly you can't make a board of BA and zoo at the same time. That deck idea really seemed like bait to get people to make poor choices/

 

As for Metalfoes Zoo, the higher the concentration of pendulum cards the greater the consistency and synergy. There was a list going around from a player who tied a 1k cash tournament and his deck was pretty poorly constructed with 13 MF monsters and 47 cards in main deck, i know some people that tested it at a pretty soft locals and bricked super hard.

 

In the new format much like the last we will see Pure Zoo, True Draco Zoo, and Kaiju Zoo.

 

Even in this classification i think that true draco engines will now become larger to the extent that TDZ (true draco zoo)  is now more like True Dracos with Zoo. Most people have realized that the small ( lvl 5-6)  True Draco provide more consistency and utility than just playing 2-3 master peace. a lot of lists i have seen use 2-3 dinomight knight, 2 master peace, and 1 of Ignis or majestys maiden. 

 

I think the real question is what are people who play pure and kaiju zoo doing to fill up their monster slots as i have a lot of experience with not drawing any monsters/searchers at all with 10-16 monster lists.

1-3 whips

2 rat

1-2 ramram

1-3 thoroughblade 

3 barrage

2-3 tenki

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Obviously the big takeaway from Euro's is how to extend our plays through disruption this was seen mostly in the form of shuffle reborn and some more unorthodox choices like black garden and bunnyblast. some other cute extenders include wiseman's chalice and lullaby of obedience. Obviously the most ideal of cards for this shouldn't brick (brilliant fusion) or be too slow (traps), does anyone else have any tech cards that also accomplish making a push outside of normal summon or barrage?

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IDK if this is in anyway relevant, but you could try splashing Tensu and Tiger King.

Otherwise Shuffle Reborn and Soul Charge are the only consistent generic extenders available here.

Diagram/Baboon is also a play extender if you use the Draco engine.

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The entire shift has been away from true draco entirely because of the amount of bricks it has and the space the package takes up. its really easy to have just the s/t or mp  without reasonable way to summon them especially with normal summon becoming more important.

At a minimum you are looking at the following:

2 mp

3 diagram

1 return 

1 heritage

3 terraforming (i guess this could be cut in super minimalist builds)

 

I've seen people trying out tensu and the problem it suffers is that because of the number of monsters played it's highly likely you don't open with 2 monsters so even having the tensu does not fix your first normal summon getting stopped.

 

I think at this point that anyone playing pure should be playing 2 shuffle's at a minimum, and all zoo decks should main soul charge. 

 

 

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Cattle Call is a good option.

 

Koa'ki Meirus are also good to consider because Diamond Core protects from destruction, so you can Urnight and Crusader into Drident fields and they can't do anything to stop it, and you can end in Cairngorgon.

 

Crusader and Urnight both are stronger than Emeral's 1800 ATK, and Crusader's effect works on Pendulums, doesn't need to send to grave.

 

Just saying,

 

300?cb=20170621140842

 

is generic and even works on Koa'ki Meiru self-destruction?!

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I mean I know I don't respond here often but are you literally suggesting cards that either lose to drident / strike, or leave with no field (=lose vs zoodiac), or require bricks / drawing specific 3-offs and cost your normal summon (which zoodiacs already are, so the "extender" shouldn't be a weaker normal summon). There's so much wrong with that post and it can already be solved by looking at some zoodiac decklists and playing literally 1 mirrormatch with the deck imo.  

 

Turceal is mostly on the right track although I don't think those are the reasons why true draco zoo is "bad". To begin with diagram is a layer because they'll either drident / ogre it or they wont. If they do its a layer. If they don't, your baobaboon / ramram / etc become layers, and if you have 2+ you make master peace which is obviously a layer. But even diagram Barrage is good (one baits ogre for the other, and if you have both Barrage is tribute fodder for peace and doesn't eat your normal). "Space" doesn't exist and especially not in this case: a card is either good enough to want to play or its not. When I think about space I think about the extra deck, maybe the side deck. Not the main deck. In fact there's often the opposite of space, you have to run cards because you can't run a lower deckcount. So you could justify maining cards because you have anti-space. And yea idk if the brick thing really grasps the problems either tbh. Like that seems like "Yea I looked at toplists and saw 8/8 pure zoo so I'll assume its because of the bricks" which doesn't really cover the entire story either. Like if you open 1 diagram that's not a brick (master peace and true draco s/t are), but if this were the case you can just play 1 master peace and 1 s/t 3 diagram 3 terraforming. The suggestion to cut terraforming is horrendous because within your own criteria its not a brick. But the real problem with this deck is its a 3/4-card combo (zoodiac + 2 true draco pieces + preferably ramram/baobaboon to make optimal use of diagram as a layer) as compared to zoodiac which is 1-card combo's + standalone hand traps / field wipes / traps. So going first with 5 cards in hand and no fusion sub combo's its hard to justify 3-4 card combo's. Also its not reliable because in cases where you do open this 3-4 card combo, its still stopped by a single ash/ogre so its so extemely vulnerable: now it becomes a 4-5 card combo to play through hand traps. And going 2nd is pretty bad not because diagram is terrible, but because you "need" a lot of cards to clear traps / hand traps and diagram doesn't do that. On that notion, it may even be optimal to go with a large true draco zoo lineup where you aim to open and resolve diagram by popping a s/t and getting heritage for the draw, because you get to kill a drident or a trap with the s/t you popped, but this would require the diagram to go through to begin with so you'd need to build your entire deck around it and idk if that's worth it. But the thing to grasp here is by making the engine smaller you guarantee to never open combo pieces or play through hand traps so that's the opposite of what you want: zoodiac and true draco kind of do everything you need so maxing out on engine pieces is probably way better than a shitty minimized engine thats literal shit. 

 

Anyway I feel so disconnected to the entire ygo community right now sometimes I can't explain my view on the game anymore because I just feel so alienated, its like everyone is doing the exact opposite of what I'm doing, in a way that its sometimes hard to tell which approach is actually right. 

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cattle call is shit compared to shuffle reborn. can't believe we all missed that card

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not interested in playing any cards that require me to play iron core of koaki meiru either

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@mark I really tried to make true draco work in this deck but the issue is that the true draco cards sort of function like pendulums in that you need a critical mass to be able to play through disruption otherwise they are total bricks. That's obviously why people are playing a minimalist engine. I personally played 1-2 mp, 2-3 dinomight knight, 2 return, and 1 apocalypse, to try and achieve the  objective of being able to amass enough cards to make a play on my opponents turn and then keep rolling due to advantage from knight. 

 

The flip side is that in a tournament like WCQ with  11-12 rounds of swiss and 6 rounds of  top cut the hands where you draw miss matched pieces will cost you too many matches. I don't think people aren't playing true draco from lack of trying. based on results and evidence both tcg and ocg when in similar formats (current and OCG January 17) there is a clearly defined trend of pure zoo just taking over larger and larger portions of the competition. For TCG  it is clear that after the june list pure zoo are having larger representation in top cut. For OCG you can see their meta breakdown at  http://roadoftheking.com/ and see the change in time week by week (10 reports in total).

 

My friend made a graph of representation of pure zoo at EUROs WCQ which has some interesting takeaways. Its worth noting round 9 is first day of day 2 after cut and round 12 is  top64.

 

19550958_1558826687462750_835842307_n.jpg

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Posted (edited)

On 30/06/2017 at 0:39 PM, mark said:

I mean I know I don't respond here often but are you literally suggesting cards that either lose to drident / strike, or leave with no field (=lose vs zoodiac), or require bricks / drawing specific 3-offs and cost your normal summon (which zoodiacs already are, so the "extender" shouldn't be a weaker normal summon). There's so much wrong with that post and it can already be solved by looking at some zoodiac decklists and playing literally 1 mirrormatch with the deck imo.  

 

Anyway I feel so disconnected to the entire ygo community right now sometimes I can't explain my view on the game anymore because I just feel so alienated, its like everyone is doing the exact opposite of what I'm doing, in a way that its sometimes hard to tell which approach is actually right. 

 

I swear to god, These Yugitubers I see know absolutely naff all about the game, they know NOTHING but give these supposed great insights into the game, but have just no idea what they are talking about and make broad generalisations with no intricate detail on moves or card tactics, just pure Pewdiepie tier bubblegum, 

easiest  gig in the world surely.

 

I listen to local supposed 'experts' in my area and I just roll my eyes . I am not really in touch with the game much but at least can make sense and tell when cards are good or decks are good, but I swear people must be trolling me with the sheer ineptitude and absence of logic they exude, it flabbergasts me totally. 

 

I mean you can't really glean much insight from DGZ circles these days, pretty much got just a couple groups. Not even sure exactly why this site is even going still or why the same 11 people use it, since it is all but extinct now.

 

i used Shuflfe reborn in things such as yosenju some time back it is a great sleeper, but not unexpected.

 

More often than not though, you have lots of bricks and lots of weaker cards  but to go off you still only need 1 card to go a +3 and you still dedicate half your deck to getting to a Zoodiac beast  then fair bit of the time it is irrelevant what other cards you have, but suggesting garbage like KM is just folly. You need an actual honest to goodness engine that actually works together, BA you have tourguide and the like to get to a Rank 3 Invoker,  so at least it has a basis of synergy to it all.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ultimate Buffalo
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