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New Mafia Rules and Punishments (Next game can start)

196 posts in this topic

I will take the ban but if you are applying post-made rules to pre-circumstances, don't do it to Jazz and Mark

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I think trying to solo as scum as soon as the game starts and bus all your teamates is pretty toxic

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3 minutes ago, iSlickz said:

I think trying to solo as scum as soon as the game starts and bus all your teamates is pretty toxic

well what else am i supposed to do

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23 hours ago, Zappdos said:

Also, we're bringing on JC. to help approve games and support the community in creating a more healthy and less memey environment. congrats!


JC really deserves to be a mafiaso, I'm very glad to hear this! 

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re slick:

 

I talked to malcolm about it at the time, as well as asked jazz, and no one was particularly enthusiastic about a ban (at the time, there was no warning system), so no one did anything (well, jazz thought he probably deserved one, but it was a bit iffy)

 

And idk about retroactively punishing him for something that happened a bit ago. This game resulted in the rule clarification, so that's a different story. I guess we can talk it over, but thats' why nothing's happened yet.

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to clarify: if we had a warn system at the time, he would have 100% recieved a warning, but at the time, we had ban or not ban, and we weren't entirely sold on ban.

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For me, the problem isn't that you allowed Slick to avoid a ban 2 cycles ago. The problem is that what Markus did was similar to what Slick did but not nearly as bad. If what Slick did does not warrant a ban, what Markus did does not warrant a ban either.

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BTW my recommendation on Slick was a one game ban, but I obviously preferred to let you guys make the decision as you are the mafiosos and you have more experience with this stuff than I do.

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4 minutes ago, Jazz said:

For me, the problem isn't that you allowed Slick to avoid a ban 2 cycles ago. The problem is that what Markus did was similar to what Slick did but not nearly as bad. If what Slick did does not warrant a ban, what Markus did does not warrant a ban either.

difference between discretion and hard rules. That choice was made under discretion, this choice is being made under hard rules.

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you'd have to ask the mafiosi that was involved in the markus choice though, i actually wasn't, I was just explaining why nothing happened with slick last time.

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3 minutes ago, Gemstone Mine said:

difference between discretion and hard rules. That choice was made under discretion, this choice is being made under hard rules.

 

But you guys are using hard rules to award punishments for infractions that occurred BEFORE the rules were put into place.

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Markus also purposely stalled the game out by not submitting his night action (while healer). that's pretty egregious imo

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iSlickz really testing the mods by negstalking in a thread where we just banned negstalking. :rolleyes: 

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I'm not negstalking you, I'm negging you because your posts are shit and you are lobbying for my ban in a game that happened nearly a month ago when a decision had already been made. Stop being a bitch already 

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5 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

But you guys are using hard rules to award punishments for infractions that occurred BEFORE the rules were put into place.

 

This this this this this this this this this this this

 

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14 minutes ago, Jazz said:

For me, the problem isn't that you allowed Slick to avoid a ban 2 cycles ago. The problem is that what Markus did was similar to what Slick did but not nearly as bad. If what Slick did does not warrant a ban, what Markus did does not warrant a ban either.


I talked to Slickzs personally after the event happened. He acknowledged he messed up and we talked about it. Giving him a warning isn't outside of the conversation, but I am confident after the conversation we had that he is going to make a serious attempt to walk away and come back later before reacting so emotionally.

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1 minute ago, rei said:

 

This this this this this this this this this this this

 

You guys need to stop pretending like these rules just came out of the blue.

 

these rules were in effect before, we just chose to formally codify it now, as well as punishments.

 

Also, when your game forces the mafioso to create the rulebook, we reserve the right to punish you for it.

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2 minutes ago, iSlickz said:

I'm not negstalking you, I'm negging you because your posts are shit and you are lobbying for my ban in a game that happened nearly a month ago when a decision had already been made. Stop being a bitch already 

 

No I'm not. I'm arguing that Markus shouldn't be banned. Chill the fuck out.

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tldr that was how things ran before. This is how shit is run now.

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Just now, Gemstone Mine said:

tldr that was how things ran before. This is how shit is run now.

 

Now or starting 10 days ago?

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6 hours ago, Urthor said:

I'm sad that the "you must read your role PM" rule was bought in.  Playing scum blind without knowing who else is scum is best scum.  


Strictly wrong and shows a mentality most people have on being scum. People play scum with the goal being "not getting caught, not being scummy, and survival". That is wrong, the moment you don't get caught or act scummy, you're essentially a townie. Most of these people get mislynched when they're town as well, yet when they're scum, they try to "play their towngame". I get lynched as town way more often and faster than that I get lynched as scum. Why? Because as town, I am in the unknown and I am trying to solve the game. My focus lays not on survival, so I take risks and get lynched when people disagree. Why would I want to do that if I'm scum? The answer is you wouldn't. First, your personal survival is not relevant. I didn't play good in Goat Mafia, but I did manage to get both Francis and Kahu lynched I think (can't remember if my lynch was d2 or d3, but I pushed a lot of mislynches), so when I died scum has a good shot at winning. It took the entire scumteam to connect, rei and islickz to out the entire team, and a perfect 4 scum lynches in a row iirc, for town to still win that game, which shows how powerful the opening is.

Another thing people overdo is bussing teammates. Yes you have to do it every now and then or people can "outplay" you on it, but in general, there is no point in bussing your teammates, because people will read into that, townies themselves don't know who's scum either so you "fit in" even if you don't bus - and most important, you are pushing a town agenda over a scum agenda. By pushing the scum agenda, you lynches townies and you have the numbers to manipulate: the votes, and the information town has. With 1 "townie-like" scum 7 Townies, it becomes a lot harder to win than if you have 4 scum + 5 Townies. You can do a lot of stuff: link to people and set them up for mislynches, eat vigs, push wrong information (some people will townread you and they will buy it) but most important you can swing the votes. Especially if people don't know you're scum.

In last game, there were 3 days in which we could've won simply by hammering Markus or Wunterslaus - which was only possible due to the sheer numbers we had. If I were to play a game where I tried to "fit in" and bussed my teammates, I would only set myself up to lose later on. There are also information roles like cop/watcher/tracker that can "out" you, and the longer the game goes on, the more town-favored it becomes and the bigger the chance is someone on your team either dies, makes a mistake, links, (or gets modkilled). You're setting yourself up for ways to lose, out of some kind of irrational fear that town will "out" you if you behave different. Now think about this: in Goat mafia, rei knew the entire team, and it didn't matter. People don't "know" that he's right, only scum does. Scum could've easily won that game if it wasn't for iSlickz solving it last moment - which goes to show that having numbers and pushing your scum agenda is way more important than "survival".

Last but not least, it's outright hilarious that no one scumread me the first few days in Drunk mafia - because I literally bussed NONE of my teammates! I literally pushed ALL the mislynches of the entire game. Sophocles, Beast, SageRhapsody, Markus and Wunterslaus? I started them all, I pushed them all, and except for Beast/Sage, I voted all of them. Yes, town "knew" this and outed me at a point where the game was technically already over (when the Wunterslaus lynch happened and when Markus received townvotes during MYLO) and maybe I played badly from day 4 and further - but day 1/3, I didn't bus at all, and people end up townreading you for it! Now imagine if I got lynched but my other teammates didn't get outed - that would've been a trade from 1 scum (myself) for 3 townies, that's a trade I'd always make. You can even have the "fit in" teammates be the ones to bus you so they can SOLO it if you want to go that route.  

 

Either way, I hope people dare to take this scumapproach, because it really is a better approach, and while my towngame sucks I do think I'm one of the few people here who has a better scumgame than towngame ( a lot of people here have a better towngame than a scumgame ), and I think part of the reason for it is that I don't try to "fit in". I push my agenda and make others adapt to it, and believe in it themselves, and I prefer to die after having pushed 2 townies, then to survive almost all game while basically fucking my own team by being a super townie the entire game. 

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1 minute ago, Jazz said:

 

Now or starting 10 days ago?

 

3 minutes ago, Gemstone Mine said:

these rules were in effect before, we just chose to formally codify it now, as well as punishments.

 

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2 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

No I'm not. I'm arguing that Markus shouldn't be banned. Chill the fuck out.

Markus did similar to what I did (debatable) AND purposely stalled the game

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you're not being punished for a rule made up out of the blue, the fact that we have a brand spankin new rule book is irrelevant to the punishment. You would have (probably) been punished for the same shit before this post was made.

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what's being added now is consistency. Now both the playerbase and the mafioso understand what you can be punished for and what the punishments are.

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