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PSA: Zoodiac is still retarded in the new format

43 posts in this topic

^relevant for when when we dont have instant fusion

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On 6/4/2017 at 2:49 AM, victor said:

Another thing about Zoodiacs is they as 1 card XYZ get around the restrictions placed on Cattle Call:

 

300?cb=20160506080718

 

It's kind of remarkable that now you can turn any Beast Warrior into a disposable Zoodiac XYZ, stack Broadbull, get its search, and then end in Drident, completely making up for the -1.

 

I mean what the heck?


What applications does this have?

You can already stack Broadbull on a Zoodiac anyway, so what's the purpose of Cattle Call here? I guess you can use it on non-zoodiac beasts etc.  but is there any reason you'd want to do that?

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On 6/5/2017 at 5:31 PM, mark said:


What applications does this have?

You can already stack Broadbull on a Zoodiac anyway, so what's the purpose of Cattle Call here? I guess you can use it on non-zoodiac beasts etc.  but is there any reason you'd want to do that?

 

Yes.

 

The interactions with Brilliant Fusion and Fire Formation - Tensu alongside True Dracos are relevant (Master Peace and Bujin Hiruko are LIGHTs).

 

I know a lot of modern Yugioh players don't remember Bujins or Fire Fists anymore, but I wonder if the card advantage of Magic Planter (+ True Draco traps) with Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Dragon is significant now that Fusion Sub Norden isn't a thing.

 

Fire Kings have some synergy with Draconic Diagram as well, and Wolfbark is still a decent card.

 

Being able to Cattle Call into the Zoodiacs gives those old themes Quick Effects via Drident, which makes them playable in 2017, because in today's Yugioh you can't just end a turn gaining advantage without having something to disrupt your opponent on their turn.

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But you can already make Drident with those archetypes by just summoning 2 level 4 monsters and overlaying into Broadbull. You don't need to play cute cards like Cattle Call. Cattle Call seems like a really bad version of Instant Fusion for Darkfire Dragon, Photon Thrasher, etc. for this purpose.

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first things first is to figure out what non-zoodiac level 4 beast warriors ur playing in the first place

 

fire fists bear and dragon suck, doubt magic planter makes dragon worth it

 

is bujin hiruko good? if i'm playing bujin hiruko can't i just play unexpected dai instead of this?

 

if anyone's trying to play yosenju zoo next format, i bet this would be really good in that

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So:

 

1) Cattle Call works with non LV 4s as well as Synchros and XYZ, so it opens ups Rank 4 Zoodiac access to 3 Axis.

 

300?cb=20130630171549

 

Raven + Cattle Call  = Broadbull + Tensu

 

That's a strong interaction because you can seach a Zoo and Summon it.

 

You can Tensu a Raven, drop Master Peace first turn and search Tenki for a Zoo.

 

You can Onslaught of the Fire Kings with Raven, and use it as Tribute fodder, and get a FF Search.

 

There's also:

 

300?cb=20130704164022

 

If you guys can't read it:

 

When this card is Normal or Special Summoned: You can Set 1 "Fire Formation" Trap Card directly from your Deck. You can only use this effect of "Brotherhood of the Fire Fist - Swallow" once per turn. Face-up Beast-Warrior-Type monsters you control cannot be targeted by your opponent's card effects.

 

So this is a Monarch that works on Normal and Special Summon (+1s a Trap, that can be used for True Draco fodder), and it makes all your BWs immune to targeting, including your Zoo's.

 

But, competitively speaking, this is why you'd play it:

 

300?cb=20130718223235300?cb=20170429112955

 

------------------

 

But wait there's:

 

300?cb=20170411221826300?cb=20160805082739

300?cb=20150530173915300?cb=20150408191234

 

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definitely down to play some level 3 fire fists but i don't need to play cattle call to reap huge benefits from that

 

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19 hours ago, mmf said:

definitely down to play some level 3 fire fists but i don't need to play cattle call to reap huge benefits from that

 

 

Actually, I would contend that Cattle Call is the card that lets you make use of dead Rooster.

 

Before, the deck didn't really have a way to do that.

 

In addition, with Red Resonator, you can make even more plays (e.g. note that Zoodiac Chakanine/Lyca doesn't restrict Synchro Summons).

 

The ability to Cattle Call any BW into Horse Prince means this deck has Crystal Wing Synchro Dragon access, that can negate hand traps.

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is it weird if i would actually prefer to have a tensu in hand instead of cattle call 9 times out of 10?

 

it is neat that you can chain cattle call to ghost ogre on your rat though. think people are locking themselves in the mindset of "you need nonzoodiac beast warriors for cattle call to be worth" and they aren't realizing that you can chain the card to mbaas/chalice/ogre, which is a far better use of the card imo

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41 minutes ago, mmf said:

is it weird if i would actually prefer to have a tensu in hand instead of cattle call 9 times out of 10?

 

it is neat that you can chain cattle call to ghost ogre on your rat though. think people are locking themselves in the mindset of "you need nonzoodiac beast warriors for cattle call to be worth" and they aren't realizing that you can chain the card to mbaas/chalice/ogre, which is a far better use of the card imo

 

Being a Quick-Play, I thought that was implied.

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unlike chalice or mbaas, this will also make your zoodiac xyz go through in response to a spell-immune master peace's effect. then you just have to find a way to make a drident with 2 whiptails and either a thoroughblade or a third whiptail under it!

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On 6/3/2017 at 8:49 PM, victor said:

Another thing about Zoodiacs is they as 1 card XYZ get around the restrictions placed on Cattle Call:

 

300?cb=20160506080718

 

It's kind of remarkable that now you can turn any Beast Warrior into a disposable Zoodiac XYZ, stack Broadbull, get its search, and then end in Drident, completely making up for the -1.

 

I mean what the heck?

 

Probably irrelevant to the topic, but I just want to say that when we get a Beast-Warrior Link Monster, this card becomes pretty good imo. We have Reborn Tengu at 3.

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Banned Drident, Barrage, Bull and limited Rat, semi limited Tenki and limited Terrortop in the OCG all to try to kill this deck.

And it's still topping.

 

How would you even stop it at this point? Just ban every single Zoodiac card?

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1 hour ago, DukeLukewarm said:

Banned Drident, Barrage, Bull and limited Rat, semi limited Tenki and limited Terrortop in the OCG all to try to kill this deck.

And it's still topping.

 

How would you even stop it at this point? Just ban every single Zoodiac card?

 

Bull isn't banned in the OCG until July 1st.

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, Nate1080 said:

 

Bull isn't banned in the OCG until July 1st.

 

The vast majority of tournaments in the OCG are unofficial and thus not bound by any of the usual rules, meaning that they generally adopt new banlists a few days to a week after they're published, rather than at their official date.

 

Granted, the deck's probably not as good as other alternatives in the OCG meta now, so I don't actually think it needs any more hitting, it's just insane to see an archetype still kicking after having just about every single one of its consistency and power cards axed.

Edited by DukeLukewarm
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Posted (edited)

On 6/19/2017 at 3:48 PM, DukeLukewarm said:

 

The vast majority of tournaments in the OCG are unofficial and thus not bound by any of the usual rules, meaning that they generally adopt new banlists a few days to a week after they're published, rather than at their official date.

 

Granted, the deck's probably not as good as other alternatives in the OCG meta now, so I don't actually think it needs any more hitting, it's just insane to see an archetype still kicking after having just about every single one of its consistency and power cards axed.

 

Yup... that's what happens with archetypes where EVERY SINGLE ONE (be it directly or indirectly) of their cards are nuts: same thing has occurred with DRulers and Nekroz, and will occur with True Draco in the future.

Something like Shaddoll or Qliphort can be killed easily, because they rely on specific cards and run filler, but decks like these are so absurd that they need to literally be sweeped with the banlist.

The fact that Zoo can make all of its plays with one card only aggravates the problem.

Edited by Brandis72
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there are like 2 true draco cards max that are actually nuts in that regard

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Posted (edited)

20 hours ago, mmf said:

there are like 2 true draco cards max that are actually nuts in that regard

True Draco cards are actually incredible: if you hit Peace/Diagram, the deck is actually still alive (especially with engines) because you still have crazy amounts of card advantage, even though the deck will cease to be oppressive because of Peace.

If you hit Heritage/Return, then Peace will just be splashed as an engine in everything.

So... you're basically forced to either SPECIFICALLY hit Heritage/Return/Peace (already three cards to kill the deck, and even then, it's only a partial kill and you'll also need to ax diagram to make it fully dead).

So yes, it's like Zoodiac (Rat/Broad/Drident), DR (Adults), Nekroz (Trish/Unicore/Shurit), and PePe (Pendulum Sorcerer/Monkeyboard/Guitartle/Plushire/Luster Pendulum) in the sense that you will need to hit 3+ cards to stop them from just re adapting and staying rogue.

One noticeable difference with Draco and those other decks, however, is that it can also be heavily powered down by hitting generics (demise), but even then, it won't actually die when this occurs.

 

Now, of course, there are other ways to kill the aforementioned decks, but banning the following cards is the easiest way of accomplishing this (the whole True Draco engine loses a massive amount of its power when you get rid of Heritage/Return/Peace as all of the tutors will then have much weaker targets, so it's easier to hit them then to go after all of the minis, and besides Peace needs to banned regardless due to the potential of continuous spell engines like metalfoes).

 

Compared to the vast majority of modern archetypes that can be neutered by just banning one card (Terrortop, Ixchel, Time Maiden, Scout, Shadow Mist, Union Hangar, Altair, and so forth), Draco is a quite a bit ahead, and shows remarkable resiliency.

Edited by Brandis72
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