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Custom goat 40 card mirror

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Hey everyone,


A lot of effort has gone into trying to design the most skillful possible custom goat format, but I haven't seen too much discussion about building a specific goat deck optimized for skillful mirror matches with itself (presumably this should be a more tractable problem, too). My friends and I really like to play goats occasionally but none of us cares too much about deck building -- we really just want to settle on a 40-card deck and play mirror matches with it. Ironically, I've had a lot of fun thinking about this "deck-building" challenge, and I thought people here might also enjoy discussing it. I'll give my tentative list plus a few thoughts below -- feel free to criticize it or present your own.



- 2x Airknight Parshath

- 2x Chaos Sorcerer


- 2x Exarion Universe

- 1x Cyber Dragon

- 1x Breaker the Magical Warrior

- 1x Thunder King Rai-Oh

- 1x Blade Knight


- 2x Tsukuyomi

- 2x Witch of the Black Forest


- 1x Morphing Jar

- 2x Magician of Faith

- 2x Magical Merchant



- 3x Graceful Charity

- 2x Scapegoat

- 2x Metamorphosis 

- 2x Book of Moon

- 2x Mystical Space Typhoon

- 1x Heavy Storm

- 1x Dark Hole

- 1x Nobleman of Crossout

- 1x Premature Burial

- 1x Snatch Steal

- 1x Creature Swap



- 2x Dimensional Prison

- 1x Mirror Force

- 1x Call of the Haunted 


When I think of "optimizing for skillful play," I'm mostly considering how to reduce the role of luck and how to increase the number of meaningful choices per game. To reduce the role of luck, I think it's important that no cards in the deck are too strong or too weak -- this motivated the cuts to BLS, Ring, Pot, and Duo. However, I like the flavor of the "trinity" in goats combined with MoF, so the deck runs 3 Graceful Charity. This piece of the trinity generates the most meaningful choices for the player, and I hope that the consistency boost given by running 3 of them further reduces the role of luck.


I feel that tutor monsters (here 2x Witch of the Black Forest) should be a major source of meaningful choices that demand skilled play. Unfortunately in vanilla goats, Sangan often just searches for Sinister which is not a very interesting choice. My hope for this list is that in most situations there will be no obvious best option. The 2 Witches are checked somewhat by DPrison and Thunder King.


The remaining choices are more mundane, but I can give my justification for them too if anyone wants to discuss anything in particular. My main concerns for the list are that Blade Knight and Creature Swap are possibly overall too weak (thus you feel "unlucky" when you draw them) and that the Witch of the Black Forests are possibly too strong. Please let me know what you think.







Edited by (>'.')><('.'<)

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mark    3105

I think this completely ignores the skill of deckbuilding


formats such as draft are the most skillful for a reason 


this may be fun to do for once, but it's definitely not the most skillful thing to do, and it would get boring very quickly 

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Brandis72    40

DDWL might be worth trying out, and serpent is missing from your list (IDK if intentional, but this could be a good idea because serpent is one of Goat Format's ''five broken cards'' and technically increases sack).

Dark Hole legality REQUIRES you to have at least three-four floaters per deck, because otherwise the card is just obscene (like, the card is fine in critter but outside of that simply degenerate).

No Torrential/Ring? Neither have a particularly high power level, and both are fairly skillful. Keep in mind that floaters don't make torrential worse, they make it better because only a small component of the deck floats, and having access to floaters means you can easily plus off torrential.


All told, however, I believe that the best way to make a ''super skillful'' mirror match would be to create your own cards. YGO cards honestly aren't perfect enough for this kind of environment, and, to my knowledge, no other card game can do that either.

Maybe you could try playing Chess or Go if you lack the creativity to fix cards?

I mean, I've tried to balance perfect mirrors as much as I could in my own custom card game, but luck was always there, laughing in the corner, ever so slightly (I was messing around with FoW mulligans AND Duelyst style cycling on top of modified Pokemon mechanics with MtG-level draw cards with a different cost system that makes them spammable, and intentionally so... but luck still floats around here and there, primarily being caused by topdecking/tempo).


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