Jump to content
Bazoo

Yu-Gi-Oh!: Rebuilt by Duelistgroundz from Scratch

Recommended Posts

Bazoo    5700

Here’s a summary of this post: I think Duelistgroundz should completely recreate YGO from scratch. Not by reverting to a previous format or rebuilding sets from existing favorable cards, but instead by creating its OWN cards as a community and building one set at a time. Then, we could playtest, revise cards, and have tournaments out of our uniquely formed sets. If the overall concept seems like it is something you would like to participate in, or you have thoughts about how sets could look differently, or just want to put your two cents in at all, post below. I simply want to garner interest and understand if such an undertaking would be possible for a community like us.

I also wrote this story to make it more exciting.


Militate.com was almost dead in 2007, only a faint shadow of its former glory. The site was never a powerhouse like Duelistgroundz, but in its heyday, big names like the Bellidos and Kris Perovic posted. Often newbies would join and post complete shit decks with Polymerization, Time Wizard, etc. The YGO celebs didn’t roast there, though. Actually, they posted with the basics of deckbuilding, i.e. keep it to 40 cards, these are the best cards in the game, include more generic cards instead of situational combos, etc.



After these big names left, some still held on. Then more left and activity crawled until there was basically ten active users and only eight of them played Yu-Gi-Oh! At all. Not even the owner visited, though he occasionally posted with the aim of reviving the entire userbase. Still, the eight players who were left did something awesome that drew them back to the site for a year later: they created their own sets and played with them.



That’s right. We didn’t like how Yu-Gi-Oh! had developed after Goat format and craved different cards. So, we learned how to make cards on NotePad in text files for YVD. At that time, we still included cards from the standard sets. However, those were few and far between. Essentially, we built Yu-Gi-Oh! from the ground up. In other terms, we crafted YGO cards that fit our, the users’, image of the game, and we played with them.



We didn’t really have any big goals. I think we just liked the creative process of making cards. I made a MegaMan X themed set of cards. I don’t have my .rtf files anymore, but I remember that it revolved around searching for MegaMan’s Power-Ups, which were equip cards. I think MegaMan was 1700 or something, but when he was summoned you were able to search an equip card from your deck. Zero was 1900 and got some kind of boost when he was equipped. Trust me, it was awesome.



I think Duelistgroundz.com should do this. We spend time on making drafts or developing goat format, and that is cool. But often times I think some of the conceptual design of the sets, from the beginning, doomed the game to fail. The only answer is to rebuild the game from scratch using our own sets. I think we love the mechanics of the game. We love the rules and we love the flavor of the game in general. I personally enjoy that there isn’t a mana system, although in many ways this sets games up to fail. I enjoy the selecting my own targets for attack and the mechanics of traps and face-down monsters.

That being said, I think the game could improve with user-generated cards. In my opinion, a user-generated card pool could follow these general rules:

1. No 4-star monsters should have more than 1000 ATK unless they have some kind of adverse effect. Essentially, the bar set by Berserk Gorilla, Alexandrite Dragon, Gemini Elf, and even back to La Jinn should be lowered. My logic for this is that I think 8 direct attacks from these easily summonable monsters should make you lose, but not less than that. This would slow the pace.

In the same vein, 5 and 6-star monsters could have 1000-1500 ATK in general and 7 on up monsters could have 1500-2500 ATK.


2. OTKs should be virtually non-existent. With the ATK bar lowered, spamming low-level monsters might become *slightly* more tolerable. However, gimmicky OTKs should be left out of the game.

3. Generic staples and cookie cards should have, in general, added costs. This is the bullet point I am most vague and unsure about. Mystical Space Typhoon might be okay-ish for the game, but would it be more interesting if it read like this:
“Water Typhoon.
SPELL (Quick-Play)
Reveal 1 WATER monster in your hand: target 1 Spell/Trap card on the field; destroy that target.”

“Fire Tornado
SPELL (Quick-Play)
Remove 1 FIRE monster in your graveyard from play: target 1 Spell/Trap card on the field; destroy that target.”

In this way, some of these cards become themed. Or maybe that’s bad and that’s not a collective duelistgroundz.com vision of YGO? I don’t know, but it could be discussed, debated, and tested by the community.

Some questions that could arise:

·        Q:  Wouldn’t some of the cards just end up converging and we would be ripping off regular YGO anyway?
A: Probably. But I think we could also name cards with nods to their original source as above. Don Zaloog might become “Donny Z” and have only 500 ATK. Something like that.

 Q: Who would run this? It seems like it would go nowhere.


A: I want to see if there is support with this post. If not? I could try to come up with more examples in Lackey and maybe see of anyone would want to test then?

Q: Would the new cards have pictures?

A: Not necessarily. Maybe we could get generic pictures of lizards or something. When I made MegaMan X cards I did indeed put images from the game in them but I don’t really think they should be based on other franchises besides YGO.

 

Again, my purpose in this post is to garner interest in such a thing, and to see if it is feasible on part of the community. I think it could be exciting and fulfilling, but obviously there needs to be more than one person on board.

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
turceal    29

I can see how this would be fun but i think i was pass on participating because of the time involvement. Most people trying to play competitive yugs don't have the time to dedicate to another form of the game that isn't necessarily going to match up with standard yugioh and help improve their skills.

 

I could see this gaining popularity around the August time frame when yugs is slow due to being after WCQ  and before worlds but otherwise seems like a no go.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Catasterism    400

I had a fairly lengthy post written that got eaten by timeout, so ugh.

I've been working on my own CCG-like project that's taken inspiration from Yugioh, Magic and other games. Whilst I haven't kept up with YGO properly in a while, I still read the set spoilers. I've thought about how I would "fix" Yugioh fairly extensively in the past. Ultimately I concluded that in addition to custom cards it's probably a good idea to refine the mechanics and design philosophy. Personally, I really like the Extra Deck as a thing YGO does well - no other game offers that as a design where your "deck" is actually freely available at all times and your "main deck" is actually just a huge resource engine to make plays with (afaik).

I would personally make the following changes to "balance" YGO before adding custom cards:

Special Summons have Summoning Sickness (can't attack or use activated effects; can use triggered and continuous effects)
Archetypes are gone.
Spells/Traps get Attributes/Types.
Cards that care about "Wind cards" or "Beast cards" can search the associated support.
Monster types go down to about 10 - Dragon, Spellcaster, Warrior, Machine, Beast, Elemental, Dinosaur, Plant, Zombie, Fiend, Fairy and maybe a couple others. The game hardly even uses most of them anyway.
There'd probably be some generic engine types (cards about milling, cares about banishing from grave, cares about controlling cont spells, etc) spread through the different types/attributes to encourage innovation and deck design.
All Extra Deck monsters have "XYZ material" (probably just called Material) and need "2 Attribute monsters" or "2 Type monsters"; or "1 Fire monster and 1 Water monster" to make them splashable.
Cards are designed more like MTG cards with keywording and simplification. Players should lose to misplays and bad deckbuilding, not because they misread a card or didn't remember which of the 5 identical-looking Monsters had which effect buried halfway through its text.
Similarly, eliminate needlessly complex mechanics like "missing the timing".
Damage works like MTG/Hearthstone - creature removal is largely damage based and combat buffs are relevant as a result. Dunno if you use DEF like Toughness (makes DEF more relevant) or just hit the position the card is in.
Do literally anything to make equip cards not shit.

Couple sample cards:

Meteor Strike
Trap (Fire)
Discard 1 Fire card. Target Monster takes 2000 damage and Monsters next to it take 1000 damage.

Snowstorm
Quick Spell (Wind)
Destroy 1 FU Spell OR Reveal 1 Water card in hand to destroy 1 FU Trap.

Pious Charity
Spell (Light)
-Draw 3 cards then,
-Discard 2 cards OR discard 1 Light monster.

Generic Warrior
Earth Warrior
1500/1000
First strike

Lord of Fire
Extra Deck Monster
Fire Elemental
2300/1400
2 Fire Monsters
Haste.
On Damages a Player: Search 1 Fire Monster.
At end of your BP: this card changes to Defence Position.

General idea would be to have extra deck access open; but to have main deck monsters not optimised for use as material - efficient extra deck summons would warrant battle trades, getting value from flip effects or protecting your board with defensive cards.

Since I have my own CCG project I'm working on I probably won't contribute much to this, but I might give some feedback if I drop by again. Good luck with getting this off the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

definitely interested

 

The cube i designed (which is essentially designing your own format) does this - except we didnt make any of our own cards

 

I'd be interested in designing some card effects - currently doing that now with a card game im working on - it is very challenging

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you wanted to do this, why wouldn't you be making an entirely new game?

while YGO does have some unique features, thinking that they have to be unique to YGO is self-constraining. So what if no other game has an Extra Deck? Mana/Energy/etc used to be MTG exclusive, and then new card games built upon it. 

 

Half the idea behind Pendulums (cards that are both monsters and spells) is something that Kaijudo (and the game it imitated) also features.

Keywords are rare in YGO, and yet reading a card that says "T 1 M your opp cont; des it AIYD ban it FD,  then shuffle your D and S 1 ST from your H" sounds like a trainwreck because that's such a drastic change to how the game text works.

 

To make a new card game from scratch is daunting, even when considering all of the mechanics that would have to be designed from scratch. Even with that, I believe it is still much better than trying to build upon YGO as a shell, given how many constraints it has. Is destroying floodgates going to be a thing? Are Link rules going to be a thing? Is the ridiculously elaborate damage step going to be a thing? 

 

If you want to have YGO except with no beaters, no OTKs, and MSTs you have to banish for, just make a new game.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lower ATK would mean slower games. 

However, it would be interesting if LV5-6+ monsters can still be strong while LV4 monsters are weak.  That way tribute summoning might actually mean something.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Me.    57
1 hour ago, banefulscolumn said:

Lower ATK would mean slower games. 

However, it would be interesting if LV5-6+ monsters can still be strong while LV4 monsters are weak.  That way tribute summoning might actually mean something.

 

Have you heard about true draco?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
»victor    6400

To be honest, I think all this nostalgia for old formats and creating custom ones is going overboard to the point where we no longer the "Pinnacle of Competition" but rather "intellectuals" who are really not that much different from the Create-A-Card and Cardmaker that we used to blast Pojo and other sites for.

 

I realize greenfields are fun and easy, being able to start from scratch, is appealing to everyone on a fundamental level, but that's not how the real world works.

 

I'd love to see more competitive discussion, but right now the forum is almost dead for modern Yugioh, and most talk happens over Discord? 

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate1080    1225
11 minutes ago, victor said:

To be honest, I think all this nostalgia for old formats and creating custom ones is going overboard to the point where we no longer the "Pinnacle of Competition" but rather "intellectuals" who are really not that much different from the Create-A-Card and Cardmaker that we used to blast Pojo and other sites for.

 

I realize greenfields are fun and easy, being able to start from scratch, is appealing to everyone on a fundamental level, but that's not how the real world works.

 

I'd love to see more competitive discussion, but right now the forum is almost dead for modern Yugioh, and most talk happens over Discord? 

 

I agree with what you're saying, 100%, but to be fair have you seen modern YGO? It's the worst it's ever been; its not even fun or worthwhile to play atm.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Nate1080 said:

 

I agree with what you're saying, 100%, but to be fair have you seen modern YGO? It's the worst it's ever been; its not even fun or worthwhile to play atm.

I feel like I've heard this before somewhere

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nate1080 said:

 

I agree with what you're saying, 100%, but to be fair have you seen modern YGO? It's the worst it's ever been; its not even fun or worthwhile to play atm.

 

"Xyz will destroy YGO"

"Inzektor will destroy YGO"

"Dragon Ruler will destroy YGO"

"Shaddoll will destroy YGO"

"Qliphort will destroy YGO"

"Nekroz will destroy YGO"

"Pepe will destroy YGO"

"Zodiac will destroy YGO"

"True Draco will destroy YGO"

 

Its always been the worst game it's ever been, any "good old days" nostalgia for something probably equally bad.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate1080    1225
5 minutes ago, Bundle of Sticks said:

 

"Xyz will destroy YGO"

"Inzektor will destroy YGO"

"Dragon Ruler will destroy YGO"

"Shaddoll will destroy YGO"

"Qliphort will destroy YGO"

"Nekroz will destroy YGO"

"Pepe will destroy YGO"

"Zodiac will destroy YGO"

"True Draco will destroy YGO"

 

Its always been the worst game it's ever been, any "good old days" nostalgia for something probably equally bad.

 

I'm not speaking from or for nostalgia. I don't give a fuck about that.

 

I'm speaking from actually playing the format. This format. The game hasn't even been fun to play since Zoo came out, True Draco makes it slightly worse. The worst YGO has gotten before Zoo, was that a format became dull for dragging on too long, but there was still some fun to be had and still worth playing. I'm just explaining why there hasn't been much talk about the current format.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mark    3105

Victor I wouldn't say ygo on DGZ is dead because we have warring and casual ranked and around 100 people actively playing and discussing with their team which is amazing 

 

but yea the goal is for people to start using the forum more eventually as well - I think people are afraid to "give away edges", like If you post your list everyone will know what you're playing, etc. Ill try to post more myself as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mark    3105

Zoo as an archetype is no where near bad or unfun

 

it got broken with broadbull Lunalight fusion sub norden draw 4/5 combo's, which should've been an emergency ban. I'm not even sure if konami realized these combo's at first, I'm leaning towards no. So were taking about people who broke a format and did something that initially Wasn't possible 

 

why is true draco bad? Yes master peace may be bad design like qliphort towers was but its not impossible to out within engines and I'm not sure how bad/unfun that is either, true draco seem pretty fun, true king as well, idk what you're talking about 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate1080    1225

Regardless or not a card can be outed, and in the case of Zoo even before the Luna Light combo was known, it just isn't fun to play with or against. I don't mind that they're bonkers or not (I did play Nekroz and Pepe in their respective formats, both bonkers as shit decks in their time, and I found them fun to play), it's just boring to me.

 

Some people might find it fun, that's cool, but from personal experience and talking to other people that currently play, a lot of people feel the same way I do about this format.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IRLAlex    116

@Catasterism

I've tried messing around with an Extra Deck focused game. The general gist was various different summoning forms (including super-s/t from the Extra) but the biggest obstacle I've come across is: If I'm constantly making things from the Extra, then to some point they lose their emotional impact, the cards are no longer "special" and I'm just playing with a land-deck and a card-deck. On the other hand, to make the extra deck cards more interesting, the main deck cards have to be basic, almost to the point of boring. For example, say you fuse 2 Jar of Greed's together, to get pot of greed. It's very "why not just play the 2 jars" or maybe more applicable, why would I fuse cards to create Dark Hole while that goes against the nature of how Dark Hole is used (aiming for lowest possible investment to punish significant overextension).

 

Giving S/T Type/Attributes is a good idea though.

Edited by IRLAlex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23491
5 hours ago, victor said:

I'd love to see more competitive discussion, but right now the forum is almost dead for modern Yugioh, and most talk happens over Discord? 

 

gotta put my former sensei on blast here for a minute but this hasn't been true for a while now, it seems dead to you because you havent been making any attempts to involve yourself with the new channels for activity ie warring and discord yet (no offense)

 

it's way easier to figure out what you should be trying to do in current format when you're looking at hard results-based data instead of basically just crapshooting between a bunch of different historical precedents. while you've been preoccupied with trying to make the coveted v-hero lightning strike twice with a 1-off card interaction, finding some gold here and some dirt there, in discord we've been watching the warring metagames unfold from a top-down perspective; as a result i feel confident exploiting the statistically worst matchups of literally every single deck in either current or goat format right now, in a much more comprehensive way than just looking for a unique card that my opponents might not be able to read as consistently

 

also dgzcord solved pre-banlist zoodiac mirrors, get on our level

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mark    3105
5 hours ago, Nate1080 said:

Regardless or not a card can be outed, and in the case of Zoo even before the Luna Light combo was known, it just isn't fun to play with or against. I don't mind that they're bonkers or not (I did play Nekroz and Pepe in their respective formats, both bonkers as shit decks in their time, and I found them fun to play), it's just boring to me.

 

Some people might find it fun, that's cool, but from personal experience and talking to other people that currently play, a lot of people feel the same way I do about this format.

 

And I'm not saying you're wrong, but at any moment of the game there have been people who didn't like it, it's part of the game and the people who have a problem with it end up playing goat format, draft etc. instead 

 

but the current players keep going 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23491
On 6/8/2017 at 9:15 AM, Nate1080 said:

 

I'm not speaking from or for nostalgia. I don't give a fuck about that.

 

I'm speaking from actually playing the format. This format. The game hasn't even been fun to play since Zoo came out, True Draco makes it slightly worse. The worst YGO has gotten before Zoo, was that a format became dull for dragging on too long, but there was still some fun to be had and still worth playing. I'm just explaining why there hasn't been much talk about the current format.

sorry you don't like zoo but the vast majority disagrees, maybe you just have a mental block with decks that make you learn playbooks of combos or something but for most of us pure zoo mirrors are actually the most fun we've had in current format for quite a while

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate1080    1225
12 minutes ago, mmf said:

sorry you don't like zoo but the vast majority disagrees, maybe you just have a mental block with decks that make you learn playbooks of combos or something but for most of us pure zoo mirrors are actually the most fun we've had in current format for quite a while

 

I played Nekroz in its prime, a deck just as complicated as Zoo and had a blast with it. Just because a deck or its mirrors is/are complicated, doesn't make it fun.

 

Also, vast majority? No, I don't think so. I think you're in the minority. Leading up to and during zoo format, all I've been hearing is how dreadful this shit is. Only reason a lot of people are invested in this format is because of Nats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
+scuzzlebutt    23491

scrubs at locals think every format is bad. ask people who are actually good at the game, who have experience coming back from crazy odds to win zoo mirrors by outplaying their opponent. the only people that think it's luck-based or ends on t1 are the people that suck at playing the deck. true draco is what really made the format suck, and even then it's still not as bad as some other nats formats have been

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Nate1080 said:

 

I played Nekroz in its prime, a deck just as complicated as Zoo and had a blast with it. Just because a deck or its mirrors is/are complicated, doesn't make it fun.

 

Also, vast majority? No, I don't think so. I think you're in the minority. Leading up to and during zoo format, all I've been hearing is how dreadful this shit is. Only reason a lot of people are invested in this format is because of Nats.

I could have made the same assumption about Nekroz format based on your same logic

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nate1080    1225
2 minutes ago, TheGoldenTyranno said:

I could have made the same assumption about Nekroz format based on your same logic

 

You could, but it would be irrelevant since I didn't say that Nekroz was fun because it was complicated. Only made that point because MMF implied that Zoo is fun because it is complicated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×