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Human Tetherball

Almost got jumped; buying a gun.

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I made it to my car before they did. On my way to my parking lot  (I work nights downtown in a medium sized city)  around 12:30 or so I got a tail. A belligerent woman followed me to my car while her male accomplice walked the perimeter of the lot, slowly getting closer starting from about a few hundred feet. I got the vibe that she was the distraction and he was the flanker, so I fastwalked my ass to the car. I had lost sight of the dude when I made it to my car but the woman wasn't far behind. I got in, locked doors, and by the time I started it, she was almost close enough to open my rear door. I got the fuck out of there. 

How did it start?

I walked down the sidewalk of an apartment building and passed the couple. I nodded at them because you want to see how people react when you do that shit, and the woman just stared at me. I said "pardon me" [yes I sound like that] and walked past at a good pace. Shit already felt weird to me at that point. Then she started yelling Hey! to get my attention. I turned to look as I entered the lot and she and her man were coming towards me. He hung back at the edge of the lot, moved slower, while she advanced. Hey! Hey you! I ignored her and kept an ear out for the sound of someone running because I no longer knew where the dude was. I turned my head every couple seconds to make sure she was still following me and was more than just some crackhead beggar whose actions I had been misinterpreting; my gut told me that was very unlikely so I got to my car before she did, got in and got the fuck out.

I didn't run, because that's when people really chase you, it triggers the predator instinct. Immediately sees you as prey. Humans are predators, and it is ignorant to think otherwise.

I made eye contact at the initial contact to indicate mutual humanity--I got a bizarre stare instead of the returned nod and turn which indicates the inherent person-to-person trust needed to have a society. You definitely want to do that test because sociopaths are actually uncommon, and people with bad intentions will usually communicate them subconsciously if you can read body language--you broadcast the same of course--people are bad at hiding it.

I was actually trying to look kind of hard, you know, shoulders flexed forward, arms a little wide, slight backward lean, conscious fast pace as though you got somewhere to be and are determined to get there. I generally do that when walking out and about at night and don't have too much of a problem telling people who approach me to fuck off. I dunno if I fucked it up this time, or they figured their odds were good [they were, dude alone could have fucked me up, let alone the both of them].  When she started yelling at me to get my attention, it sounded aggressive, and sank my initial gut feeling deeper.

Keep in mind, I weigh a little under 130 lbs and am 5' 7". I can punch a little bit above my weight, but attitude's about all I got. I can run like hell, but my knees are starting to go to shit. I always have a knife on me, but tonight really demonstrated how inadequate it would be in practice. I would most definitely lose a close range shakeup against two opponents, one much bigger and stronger than me, and probably get gutted with my own weapon before it was over. The main reason I'm okay is because the criminals in question were completely incompetent, and I saw them first. Not much you can do about getting blindsided, but definitely keep your head on a swivel at all times, it helps enough to be worth it and it's better than nothing.

Trust your gut. If you think you're in danger, it's because you are. Other people should always be considered a potential hazard. Probabilities vary, of course.

I've had my eyes on an FNS-9C chambered in 9mm. I shot the full frame version and loved it, and it's basically a Glock 26 with better features, so I'm sure it'll be a good investment. Factory tritium paint night sights are also relevant; don't need a bulky flashlight hanging off the front of your pistol just to get sights on a target. A rail mounted light or laser would also make it harder to conceal, or fit in a holster. It doesn't cost all that much to get concealed carry training and permits where I live, so I think it's worth it to just throw this shit on the credit card and start practicing. Open carry isn't an option in my workplace, though it is legal in my state. A baseball bat and pepper spray will do until I can get all my firearms paperwork done. I don't think putting lead on paper at 7 meters will be much trouble at all so I think this is a pretty viable option and a lot less conspicuous than an "instrument for sporting purposes" aka bludgeon.

I enjoy my job downtown. I get to practice Spanish some, see a lot of people so I can keep my social anxiety from growing back, and the hours are really flexible so I can do this whole novel thing. Hell, I even get a little exercise with it. (I am a fairly well-paid store clerk in one of the busiest stores in my state. This city has a major international airport and there are hotels on either side of the store) I don't want to stop going to work because of this. I probably should try to work somewhere else, to be completely rational about it, so I'll work on that too, but I shouldn't have to. Little old ladies are some of my coworkers, and I don't know if my replacement would do the right thing and walk people to their car, give them rides, etc. Plus, if they have the balls to do it, I would be embarrassed to have such an excuse for my leaving. I'm replaceable, sure, but I'm well known by the regulars and liked there--it feels hard to leave at this point when its still serving all of my goals.

So for now, my decision is to arm myself as effectively as possible. I did notify the police and I'll be calling my store in a few hours to give them a heads up, and again to make sure 2nd shift gets it because 1st shift doesn't do half the shit they're supposed to. Of course, I'm still fucking wired so sleep is probably not happening for a good minute. 

/blogpost.

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+greasy thug    18941

That was quite a frightening experience.  I got jumped once by 3 people for my ygo cards and ended up bloody and bruised.  Stay protected bro

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Goins    36

Most schools are McDojos, only way to learn decent Krav Maga is in the military.

 

As a general rule in terms of self defence:

 

Avoiding trouble > Gun > Martial Art

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I have a close friend that knows Karate legitly, and he's been teaching me some basic moves, but he's a gun nut like me so...
Effective means of self-defense do not depend on you being in peak (or even good) shape, perfectly remembering hand-to-hand training, and your enemy not having a weapon.

3 hours ago, Silver said:

you should learn krav maga. 

Israelis also mandate military service for their citizens and they carry Tavors and have body armor, etc. If I could just walk around with an intermediate cartridge semi-auto or select-fire rifle and class IV armor all the time, sure. 

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4 hours ago, greasy thug said:

That was quite a frightening experience.  I got jumped once by 3 people for my ygo cards and ended up bloody and bruised.  Stay protected bro

damn dude that fucking sucks, and I definitely aim to, no pun intended.

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mark    3104
7 hours ago, Silver said:

you should learn krav maga. 

saw the title and came in to post this

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3 hours ago, iSlickz said:

If you had a gun on you at the time, walk me through what you would have done differently (just curious, ive thought about gerting one myself)

Situational awareness and instinct were my weapons this time. I wouldn't have done much different because drawing a firearm is a commitment to a life-or-death action. It would mean standing my ground and killing someone. I was (barely) able to get away without a direct confrontation. I was lucky. There were several points in this incident in which I could have been engaged in a direct confrontation:

-If their pace was faster, or were running at me rather than stalking. She could've run up on me if she wanted to, and dude probably could've too if he wasn't going the long way on purpose.
-If I was attacked as I passed them initially; I would run to get clear distance, and continue running until I determined that a fight was necessary, if it were necessary.

She was just slow enough for me to be able to get into my car and lock my doors. By the time I had my keys in the ignition and seatbelt on, she was very close to my rear driver side door. I looked carefully because I didn't want to hit her if I could avoid it.  One of the things that crossed my mind was being in a disadvantageous position while entering my vehicle or shortly after (or shortly before), and that is when I would've used a gun. The point right when you are damned sure you are in harm's way and have to use it.

More below relevant to subject and other posters.
(I don't mean to condescend if you already know all this).

Weapons are tools of absolute last resort, when all other options are exhausted or impossible. I don't want blood on my hands, even if they're trying to harm me, it's a tough thing to live with, and there are many many potential legal consequences including a manslaughter conviction, civil suits etc. But as they say, "it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". You are as much of a human being as your attacker is and you have the right to live more than they have the right to try to ruin your shit.

Like, if you end up in one of those stupid "honorable fights" that sometimes come up between men while hammered over some idiotic conflict--a gun is not appropriate. You're not going to get killed, you're just consenting to potentially get your ass kicked. If you know you aren't in danger of serious injury or death, do not use your weapon. If you have no intention of engaging and some asshole just wants to kick your ass, fuck that, you have a right to use your weapon after you've declined violence and expressed a verbal warning not to attack. Don't just go popping off on someone over something that can solved through de-escalation.

De-escalation, like situational awareness, is a tool you can always use without negative consequences to prevent violence or harm to your person and you should learn how to do things like that in case it is possible to resolve a conflict non-violently. It is much better to look like a pussy than to be a murderer. One of those things is temporary, and can be forgotten. If you can placate an aggressor in any way that will not result in harm to your person, do it. If someone wants your wallet, it's not your wallet anymore, it's potentially your life--let them have the fucking wallet. Learn how to talk people down from states of high agitation, anger, potential intoxication, and social pressure to fight. 

Situational awareness is simple once you know it but easy to fuck up without practice. You need to pay attention to specific things in your environment and in other people in order to act in the smartest way possible to save your life. If you sense you are in danger, do you know where all the belligerents and potential belligerents are? Do you know where you're going to run, and if you can even outrun them? Did you anticipate being in danger in this environment beforehand so you could read the behavior of the people in it? Do you know where you are, and what the potential battle space is? Chokepoints? Blind corners? Doors? Windows? Driving conditions (if outside)? Who is doing what and how they're doing it is a critical set of questions that demand answers before acting.  

You can hone situational awareness as a skill. You can practice it and should. It will help you do the right thing when the butterflies creep into your stomach. It is the most important skill. It tells you which situations can be avoided or de-escalated, and which ones can't.

So, what I would do differently if I had a gun was feel more in control of my situation should things escalate such that I avoid escalation even further. A minor change in variables and I could have been dead. It's a wake-up call that my ability to fight is deficient, but my situational awareness is not. I may have been able to sprint to my car instead, knowing that if it provokes a chase you have confirmation that you must act if you can't get away, and that you have a course of action that will protect you. If they didn't pursue in response to the sprint, congrats, you're alive and they are too. That's ideal. That's how you win the game under most circumstances. If you're in real danger, you win the game by killing (assume you will kill when you fire, they may just be injured, but know you are using a killing tool). It's not a game, but it's a useful metaphor.

I should also note that at the second your enemy begins to flee, every trigger pull is murder. You just have to end the conflict with you alive. If they are deterred by your action you have succeeded and no longer need to continue firing, so don't. Your real win condition is making your attacker stop and leave you alone, you getting away is the only thing that absolutely has to happen.

I cannot say with absolute certainty that my stalkers intended to kill me. If you get away like I did you never can. I'm sure I was going to be assaulted and robbed. You cannot ever truly know this but you have to assume that someone who is willing to violate you is also willing to kill you. They didn't point a weapon at me or otherwise threaten me and express a demand "give me your money" "give me your car". That didn't happen, otherwise I'd be down a wallet.

 

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Oh yeah, and if you're already in a fucked up situation, if anyone is trying to kidnap you or move your person to another location, they are definitely trying to kill you and you should attack as hard and fast as you can. Be vicious. Get away the first chance you can. Do. Not. Get. In. Their. Car.  6/7 people survive being shot with a handgun. You can't be more afraid of maybe dying than definitely dying in probably a really horrible way.

In the event that any of this type of stuff happens, especially if you shoot someone, you must call the police ASAP. I called the cops as soon as I got home, because you have to wonder: who else were they trying to fuck with that night? If you shoot someone and run it's really really bad for your inevitable court case. If you have an airtight self-defense situation the police won't always press charges.

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markus    2070

I don't feel confident walking outside at some places without a knife. It's just a little thing that tells me if something bad happens I have more of a fighting chance. A gun will do the same.

 

Do what you need to do. Don't be a pussy and be afraid to kill someone because you might die instead, and you're a good person and they are not. You're infinitely more valuable. Think as people who want to rob innocent people as garbage and the authorities should take care of them if you don't have to.

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On 8/19/2017 at 10:26 PM, iSlickz said:

If you had a gun on you at the time, walk me through what you would have done differently (just curious, ive thought about gerting one myself)

From cases ive read, it doesnt typically end well.

 

 

Edited by Francis J Underwood
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I've settled on a S&W M&P Shield in 9mm and it should arrive at my LGS tomorrow. It has a stellar reputation and is a favorite carry gun for many; if I don't like it trading it or selling it will be no problem [next option would be a Springfield XDS in 9mm]. In the meantime I have taken to walking to/from work with an aluminum baseball bat while wearing a leather jacket. I got away the last time and I intend to the next; if I can't, I won't be left without an option. Gonna put in some range time this weekend to break it in [hopefully with my grandfather] and if I get good groups to start with, I'll go ahead and start the CCDW licensing process. You only have to put 11/20 rounds on target at 7 meters to qualify, which sounds easy enough.

The interesting thing about a CCDW is that it allows you to also carry tons of other things that you're not supposed to even open carry normally - brass knuckles, shuriken, nightsticks, it's pretty funny really. A mall ninja's dream.

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Sophocles    2841
On 21-8-2017 at 5:13 PM, little bug said:

I don't feel confident walking outside at some places without a knife. It's just a little thing that tells me if something bad happens I have more of a fighting chance. A gun will do the same.

 

Do what you need to do. Don't be a pussy and be afraid to kill someone because you might die instead, and you're a good person and they are not. You're infinitely more valuable. Think as people who want to rob innocent people as garbage and the authorities should take care of them if you don't have to.

 

I wouldnt kill someone to keep my phone tbh js imo

 

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9 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

 

I wouldnt kill someone to keep my phone tbh js imo

 

Same. But I don't think that these people tend to give a lot of dialogue options based on what I experienced. Technically, I have no fucking idea what they were after/what their goal was beyond interacting with me in a way I don't want with a high likelihood of force/easily interpreted menace.

If they said "I got a gun, gimme your wallet", they could have the wallet. But if they never state a demand, if they just go on the offense, their unclear motives are worst-case in your risk assessment. I would shoot someone to avoid being hurt by them, and hopefully they would stop and go away and not die or suffer permanent injury. I think the number of lumps I should be expected to take should be zero.

I'm still going to open carry the bat as deterrence to reduce the chance of that being a call I have to make.

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+rei+    34405

> carries a bat, wants a gun for misc thuggeyr

> insults mall ninjas

 

 

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You work downtown at night in a city with a steadily increasing homicide rate and run into trouble and see how you start changing your priorities and behavior, just saying. I think a lightweight bludgeon, pepper spray, and single-stack 9mm are conservative, practical choices in the meantime while I wait to get transferred to a less crazy location. And yeah, mall ninjas are what they are because they fetishize weapons that are impractical and 'exotic' and don't bother to become proficient with them.

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+rei+    34405

Yep, though I mean most of the country isn't going to have people getting killed. THat whole 'not living in a shithole' thing is really paying off. 

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Your bitchy smug comments coming from a place of total lack of experience are helpful, constructive, and add to the conversation. You're flaunting ignorance and a bad attitude. Take pride in that if you must.

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+mmf    23367

is the advice in the OP coming from a particularly qualified external source or based on personal experience outside of the anecdote in the OP?

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+rei+    34405
1 hour ago, Human Tetherball said:

Your bitchy smug comments coming from a place of total lack of experience are helpful, constructive, and add to the conversation. You're flaunting ignorance and a bad attitude. Take pride in that if you must.


You think escalating a situation to lethal force will in any way protect or benefit you when literally every piece of evidence contradicts that.  I've been around and owned firearms longer than you've been alive most likely, and yes I will flaunt not living in such a shithole i need a concealed firearm

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