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NB96

DGz Live: The Return?

DGz Live Interest Poll  

19 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you be interested in participating in DGz Live tournaments based specifically on past formats?

  2. 2. What formats would you like to see DGz Live events based on?

    • May 2002 (Yugi/Kaiba Starter Deck)
    • September 2006 (Monarchs, Chimeratech, Warrior Toolbox, Beatdown, Stein OTK)
    • March 2007 pre-Emergency List, CCV banned (Airblade Turbo)
    • March 2007 post-Emergency List, CCV banned (Perfect Circle, T-Hero, J-Hero, Troop Dupe, DDT, Zombies, Big City, Gadgets, Six Samurai, Demise OTK, Beasts, Baboon Burn)
    • March 2008 (DAD Return, Gladiator Beasts, Lightsworn)
    • September 2008 (Tele-DAD, Lightsworn)
    • March 2009 (Synchro Cat, Lightsworn)
    • March 2010 (Plants, Blackwing, Flamvell, Gadgets, Prisma Glads, Lightsworn, Twilight)
    • September 2011 pre-Photon Shockwave (Tengu Plants, Agents, T.G., Karakuri, Chaos, Dark World)
    • September 2012 (Wind-Up, Geargia, Mermail, Fire Fist, Macro Rabbit, Inzektor, Agents)
    • March 2013 (Dragon Rulers, Spellbook)
    • September 2013 (Dragon Rulers, Dragunity Rulers, Mermail, Spellbook)
    • January 2014 pre-Dragons of Legend (Hieratic Ruler, Mermail, Geargia, Fire Fist, Bujin, Evilswarm)
    • April 2015 (Nekroz, Burning Abyss, Qliphort, Shaddoll, Satellarknight, Ritual Beasts)
  3. 3. Would your participation in either DGz Live or DGz Warring affect your level of activity in the other competition?



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NB96    799

Hello all,

I have been dipping into past formats lately having started with Goat format since there is a large following of the format making it fairly easy to find games on DuelingBook now. However, I've also been going back and exploring other formats, many of which I played during but some of which I did not, such as September 2011's Tengu Plant format, for instance.

I regret not taking part in the old DGz Live tournaments as a way to test myself in a competitive setting against other members of this site. Season 2 of Goat/Advanced format warring is one way to practice, but that only offers two formats since it would get confusing to have many more.

I was thinking of possibly hosting (or providing encouragement for somebody else to host) past format wars in all sorts of different formats. I'm sure it would get confusing to have big tournaments but even just small 8 player tournaments in memorable old formats like Edison, Perfect Circle, Troop Dupe, Airblade Turbo, Return DAD, Tele-DAD, Gladiator Beasts, Yugi/Kaiba etc (I can't remember which specific format each of these were in off the top of my head but you know what I mean).

I haven't included Goat format on the list on Question 2 for two reasons:
1) you can play Goats in DGz wars if you want.
2) you can play Goats on DuelingBook against randoms if you want, and can easily find matches those too.
3) there's so much Goat format going around anyway, I'd like to explore other formats instead, even if for no other reason than for it to be something a little different.
4) it's more difficult to find a community (and consequently, an opponent) for these less popular formats, making it harder to find games for.

It is worth mentioning to those who are unaware that the old DGz Live tournaments were free to participate in and so should these (assuming enough people register interest), and therefore that means there would also be no prizes. Seeing as there would likely only be 8 competitors max at most times they also probably wouldn't last longer than an hour or two either, so it wouldn't require a particularly heavy time commitment.

Please note for Question 2 I've just given an idea of some decks for people to register interest but I'm very interested in trying more formats that were not listed on there. It can be difficult to find lists of the top decks from each year so I've relied on http://formatlibrary.weebly.com to find example lists of competitive decks for each format, but I highly encourage suggestions for more formats to host tournaments in. It isn't a be all end all list of formats I'd be prepared to help with. Additionally regarding March 2007 where Elemental HERO - Stratos was limited to one in an emergency list following the sheer dominance of Airblade Turbo on the weekend of Stratos' release, I treated them as two different formats. I have also suggested banning Crush Card Virus in both formats because it was an SJC Prize card so most people would not have had access to it. I think that if everybody played with CCV it wouldn't really feel like a true representation of what the format was like to play in at the time.

I would also like to mention that I haven't really thought heavily about any kind of judge system for if people have a ruling disagreement. I had hoped that people would be able to just work it out themselves, seeing as there isn't anything at stake. This might be something I'd have to think carefully about if there was enough interest to go ahead with this. Events at the end of Season 1 of warring make me think it may well be unwise to trust people to work it out amongst themselves.

I also wanted to make a question regarding whether people felt like they could participate in both DGz Live and Wars, since most people seem to play on the weekend which is when it be most likely for me to be able to host. I'm sure either people might be prepared to take it upon themselves to host a tournament or two during the week if they have the time and interest in a specific format though. I think it would be disappointing for everybody if one type of tournament were to cannibalise participation in the other type.

Again - to be absolutely clear - I've probably not considered everything right now because I'm merely at the stage of asking people to register their interest if this is something they might like to see happen. So please don't lose your mind at me if there's an issue you can think of that I may have overlooked in this post.

Many thanks.

Edited by NB96
  • Upvote 4

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Sophocles    2750

Sounds cool

It'd be neat if these events were spaced far enough apart so people have time to practice in the format again.

 

Note that ppl can only pick one option in question 2 when you're analyzing the results.

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NB96    799
16 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

Sounds cool

It'd be neat if these events were spaced far enough apart so people have time to practice in the format again.

 

Note that ppl can only pick one option in question 2 when you're analyzing the results.

Thanks, I forgot to check the multiple choice box when I made the poll but it should be fixed now.

Edited by NB96

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NB96    799

Sorry I just realised there was an Emergency Ban in April 2008 on Dimension Fusion (to 0), Return From The Different Dimension (to 1) and Allure of Darkness (to 2) that hurt DAD Return fairly badly, but I can't edit the poll anymore because 2 hours have passed. March 2008 DAD Return/Glads (pre-LOTD) and May 2008 Lightsworn/Gladiator Beasts should be separated into two different formats. Could a mod maybe edit that?

Edited by NB96

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+ACP+    33987

The main issue with this idea is the fact that interest in any one particular format is pretty narrow, and getting all of the people who like a particular format to be online at the same time will be a challenge. For example, for awhile I was running online drafts, and there were probably a good 10 or so people that were interested in drafting, but it would quite difficult to get them all online at the same time.

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NB96    799
2 minutes ago, ACP said:

The main issue with this idea is the fac that interest in any one particular format is pretty narrow, and getting all of the people who like a particular format to be online at the same time will be a challenge. For example, for awhile I was running online drafts, and there were probably a good 10 or so people that were interested in drafting, but it would quite difficult to get them all online at the same time.

Yes it could be a problem. I had hoped to keep the tournaments small like 8 players max to make it a little easier to gather players, or even four players in a round robin setting.

Edited by NB96

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Brandis72    10

I'm totally for this; sounds super fun.

However, I'll only vote once you add Critter Format (which is basically a better version of YKL) that way I can vote for it.

Critter is July 2002, post Metal Raiders. You can also specify whether or not this is post-Mechanicalchaser (TP1), as this streamlines the metagame into standard cookie cutter more by significantly weakening wall of illusion/robbin goblin, and beater-heavy decks (by reducing their playable card pool).

I also don't get April 2015; why not just play triple prep Nekroz mirrors instead (Januray 2015)? Besides, if you want a format that's actually diverse but post Nekroz the only one (and it's actually pretty decent) would be May 2015 (and if you want to be real spicy, the mini format post DOCS/pre banlist). Would happily vote for either one.

 

 

Otherwise would be down for Edison, PCM, HAT, possibly some other formats if they prove to be popular, and lolAirblade cancer shenanigans.

Edited by Brandis72

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NB96    799
56 minutes ago, Brandis72 said:

I'm totally for this; sounds super fun.

However, I'll only vote once you add Critter Format (which is basically a better version of YKL) that way I can vote for it.

Critter is July 2002, post Metal Raiders. You can also specify whether or not this is post-Mechanicalchaser (TP1), as this streamlines the metagame into standard cookie cutter more by significantly weakening wall of illusion/robbin goblin, and beater-heavy decks (by reducing their playable card pool).

I also don't get April 2015; why not just play triple prep Nekroz mirrors instead (Januray 2015)? Besides, if you want a format that's actually diverse but post Nekroz the only one (and it's actually pretty decent) would be May 2015 (and if you want to be real spicy, the mini format post DOCS/pre banlist). Would happily vote for either one.

 

 

Otherwise would be down for Edison, PCM, HAT, possibly some other formats if they prove to be popular, and lolAirblade cancer shenanigans.

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Like I said I'm taking suggestions for more formats so if more people like the July 2002 format more than the starter decks then perhaps we could think about doing that instead.

 

I suggested April because then you get Burning Abyss too, and Star Seraph Shaddoll/Satellarknights if you want so there's a couple more options for decks to try.

 

I didn't suggest 2014 post-DRLG because Soul Charge let too many turn one wins like in Infernity and that's just annoying. I always felt the January 2014 was fantastic anyway, a great change after Dragon Rulers for months.

 

I should have specified on April 2017 I was thinking of NAWCQ/Euros format not with the Performage stuff but, again, I am flexible if people prefer one over the other.

Edited by NB96

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NB96    799
6 hours ago, ACP said:

The main issue with this idea is the fact that interest in any one particular format is pretty narrow, and getting all of the people who like a particular format to be online at the same time will be a challenge. For example, for awhile I was running online drafts, and there were probably a good 10 or so people that were interested in drafting, but it would quite difficult to get them all online at the same time.

I've thought about this more and have decided that a round-robin system is a good solution on paper.

 

1) I only need a total of four players to host a round-robin tournament, making the requirements easier to meet than in the old DGz Live tournaments which demanded eight participants. I can even participate myself to make up the numbers if all I can get are three other participants.

2) Even with only four players, each player plays 3 matches minimum; the same number of maximum possible matches in an 8-man knockout tournament.

3) If the top two players earn an equal number of points, they can simply play a decider.

4) If I actually did get 8 players, I have exciting options to switch things up and keep things fresh. I could either go for:

 

a) 8-man knockout tournament

b) two groups of four, followed by:

 

Group A 1st Place vs Group B 2nd Place

 

Group B 1st Place vs Group A 2nd Place

 

and the winners play the final. This rewards you for winning your group rather than coming second by (in theory) giving you an easier opponent in the last four. So you play a minimum of 3 matches and a maximum of 5.

 

I could even add another match on top; Group A 1st/2nd place + Group B 1st/2nd place combine to form Group C, the winner of which then goes on to claim the glory. That's 6 matches instead of 3 or 5, and although people might not always have the time for this at least it's an option, and something different from a bog standard knockout competition (which is the case for virtually every Yu-Gi-Oh! tournament). I think a round-robin system is a nice twist on what people are used to. If - somehow- you get a monster 16-player turnout, it just gets more and more exciting, and takes competitors further out of their comfort-zone and into unfamilliar terrtory.

 

I remember in my first ever tournament at Euston in London, where my Warrior deck was convincingly beaten by a Spellcaster player in round 1, leaving me in tears. My parents had to console me because I thought I was out of the tournament already. That wasn't how it worked of course, and I ended up going 1-4 in the end. The one match I won, I may have cheated though. I kept my grave face down at the time and didn't check it. I remember drawing from my grave not realising it wasn't my deck until half-way through, at which point I continued drawing from my grave because I really needed Mobius The Frost Monarch lol.

 

That experience stuck with me though; I don't want somebody to look forward to practicing for a format they have fond memories of, only to be knocked out straight away. I was in tears for a reason: it doesn't feel great (although having the emotional capacity of child didn't help either... but you get the point). Round-robin gives you a guaranteed 3 matches, so even if you lose the first match you can still recover and possibly even win the whole thing if results go your way. Even if you don't win, you've gotten more bang for your buck simply by virtue of enjoying the opportunity to play in more matches than you would have played in a knockout competition if you happened to lose the first round.

 

I also happen to have a program called "OBS Studio" on the laptop I use which allows the user to record footage on the screen. I was thinking of maybe having a feature match for each round if I have the time to watch 3-4 matches personally, and maybe upload them to YouTube. I don't really know how to speed the videos up though so there would be breaks where nothing is happening because a player is thinking. It wouldn't be a super high quality production, but still a nice touch imo.

 

I still haven't worked out how to deal with ruling disputes yet. Watch this space. As for which formats for each tournament, I may just pick four at random and have people vote for which of those four they'd like. I'm also dissatisfied with only 10 people registering their interest; if you'd like to see this happen then make it known by voting!

 

TLDR; I intend on using a round robin system because it lets everybody play a minimum of three matches instead of one (in the case of a knockout competition), and makes it easier to gather enough players to host a tournament by only demanding a minimum of four players instead of eight to be worthwhile. I might possibly also be able to record feature matches for YouTube if things go smoothly on my end.

 

For more info on round-robin competitions, see below:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Round-robin_tournament

Edited by NB96

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Brandis72    10
3 hours ago, NB96 said:

Thanks for your suggestions.

 

Like I said I'm taking suggestions for more formats so if more people like the July 2002 format more than the starter decks then perhaps we could think about doing that instead.

 

I suggested April because then you get Burning Abyss too, and Star Seraph Shaddoll/Satellarknights if you want so there's a couple more options for decks to try.

 

I didn't suggest 2014 post-DRLG because Soul Charge let too many turn one wins like in Infernity and that's just annoying. I always felt the January 2014 was fantastic anyway, a great change after Dragon Rulers for months.

 

I should have specified on April 2017 I was thinking of NAWCQ/Euros format not with the Performage stuff but, again, I am flexible if people prefer one over the other.

May 2015, unlike April 2015, is actually a very diverse format not basically: floodgate Nekroz to death or play the deck yourself.

May 2015's metagame (pre-DOCS post tins) consists of (roughly) BA/Nekroz as (fair) tier 1, Shaddoll/Tellar/Kozmo/Qli as tier 2, and HERO/Volcanic/RB/YZ/Infernoid as tier 3.

Post DOCS things get really tricky and you have Performage Dracoslayer added to tier 2, Kozmo bumped to tier 1, and probably likewise with Majespecter; however, Full power Kozmo/Specters are extremely annoying to play with/against so maybe this isn't the greatest addition to the format, despite PePe being a pretty cool, albeit somewhat inconsistent deck.

 

April 2015 had Nekroz as a strict best deck and every single other archetype being forced to metagame it hard (usually leading to incredibly uninteractive, floodgate oriented games), or risk just automatically losing to the deck's overwhelmingly powerful and remarkably consistent engine.

 

I agree with soul charge being absolutely horrible for Post-Ruler/HAT format, but quite a few people like playing post PRIO because of artifacts and hands; guess it's up to the community on this one!

Edited by Brandis72

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HououinKyouma    800
7 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

Post DOCS things get really tricky and you have Performage Dracoslayer added to tier 2, Kozmo bumped to tier 1, and probably likewise with Majespecter; however, Full power Kozmo/Specters are extremely annoying to play with/against so maybe this isn't the greatest addition to the format, despite PePe being a pretty cool, albeit somewhat inconsistent deck.

Mage/Slayer was the best deck post docs not Kozmo.

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Brandis72    10
4 hours ago, HououinKyouma said:

Mage/Slayer was the best deck post docs not Kozmo.

It absolutely was not: the deck may have won that YCS (in a brand new format), but for the entire rest of the DOCS format it did somewhat poorly because the deck is inconsistent.

Just because it sacked its way into a win doesn't mean it's the best deck; and Kozmo/Maje (Maje was good... but suffered from slowness and a lack of pilots) were the best decks post-list until Magicians were released.

Like, if you play the deck you'll see what I'm talking about; the pendulum engine is quite frail, frequently dying even to just one MST/Sliprider/DD on KotFI (either hitting their precious Luster or the completing scale they just searched off of KotFI, thus making their pendulum summon not live); and when the deck doesn't have access to the pendulum engine, it can't make Ignister to out Hexproof and can often just lose on the spot vs Kozmo. Meanwhile tempest on pendulum summon just runs the deck out of resources.

 

Like, if the deck opens really well and is actually capable of playing through disruption (or not have to deal with disruption at all because the opponent doesn't have any) then it's really, really good because the deck has a fast CA engine in addition to easy access to an amazing boss monster, but you can't expect that to happen every time.

It's kind of like Infernoid taken to a lesser extreme in that the deck is actually capable of playing when it draws poorly, but it'll still end up losing.

 

Kozmo/Specter variants were the clear best decks in early Hexproof Format once people figured out that PePe is far more prone to bad/mediocre hands than the other decks (even Kozmo).

PePe is basically the True Draco Zoo of the format; it's the best deck... in a vacuum.

Edited by Brandis72

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+mmf    23226

Please do not do round robins lol. My interest went from high to nothing when i read that 

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NB96    799
19 minutes ago, mmf said:

Please do not do round robins lol. My interest went from high to nothing when i read that 

Why not? I like to think I'm flexible enough to change enough people really don't like it but it seems like a cool idea to me.

 

I suppose I could go for something like:

 

4 players: round robin

8 players: knockout

Edited by NB96

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NB96    799

Also @mmf I can't edit the poll anymore but if you want you can add another question asking if people prefer round robin or knockout if you think there's a legitimate argument to disregard the round-robin system I suggested.

Edited by NB96

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HououinKyouma    800
6 hours ago, Brandis72 said:

It absolutely was not: the deck may have won that YCS (in a brand new format), but for the entire rest of the DOCS format it did somewhat poorly because the deck is inconsistent.

Just because it sacked its way into a win doesn't mean it's the best deck; and Kozmo/Maje (Maje was good... but suffered from slowness and a lack of pilots) were the best decks post-list until Magicians were released.

Like, if you play the deck you'll see what I'm talking about; the pendulum engine is quite frail, frequently dying even to just one MST/Sliprider/DD on KotFI (either hitting their precious Luster or the completing scale they just searched off of KotFI, thus making their pendulum summon not live); and when the deck doesn't have access to the pendulum engine, it can't make Ignister to out Hexproof and can often just lose on the spot vs Kozmo. Meanwhile tempest on pendulum summon just runs the deck out of resources.

 

Like, if the deck opens really well and is actually capable of playing through disruption (or not have to deal with disruption at all because the opponent doesn't have any) then it's really, really good because the deck has a fast CA engine in addition to easy access to an amazing boss monster, but you can't expect that to happen every time.

It's kind of like Infernoid taken to a lesser extreme in that the deck is actually capable of playing when it draws poorly, but it'll still end up losing.

 

Kozmo/Specter variants were the clear best decks in early Hexproof Format once people figured out that PePe is far more prone to bad/mediocre hands than the other decks (even Kozmo).

PePe is basically the True Draco Zoo of the format; it's the best deck... in a vacuum.


22 Performage Pendulum
22 Kozmo
5 Tellarknight
4 Majespec Variant
3 Infernoid
2 Psy Frame
4 Other (Madolche, BA, LS, Chaos Drag)

 

Over the regional results I could find + t16 of Sao Paulo and t16 of Arg Anaheim. There were only two big events during post ban post docs pre magician, and Kozmo was the deck that say early success at YCS Sao Paulo, then heavily faded at ARG Anaheim. So not sure what you're talking about that it had early success, and then faded because it was the opposite. Kozmo had early success then faded because everyone realized that Pendulum was just the better deck. You may be right about Maje, but it also needed so much for it to break right to be successful.

 

Saying that Performage just died to MST is pretty damn ignorant. The deck had access to cards like BF and IF to extend plays and BF also acted as an engine starter by dumping Juggler.

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NB96    799
4 minutes ago, Francis J Underwood said:

Where is goats? 

I decided not to add Goats. I felt that if people wanted to play it they can simply go play ranked Goats games for ELO, play in DGz Wars or simply against randoms on DuelingBook. My main motivation for this was that it is very easy now with the advent of DuelingBook to find Goats games; try doing that for something like Tele-DAD, PCM etc and it wont be as easy. People just don't play those other legacy formats as much as Goats. I hope that this will be a platform for people to play things other than Advanced or Goats.

I can also respect that the reason for Goats being so popular is because it is a fun and skill intensive format, but I'm resolute on this particular issue. I'd love to record DGz members people play PCM vs Zombies, for instance, if for no other reason than that it's something different.

Edited by NB96

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Just now, NB96 said:

I decided not to add Goats. I felt that if people wanted to play it they can simply go play ranked Goats games for ELO, play in DGz Wars or simply against randoms on DuelingBook. My main motivation for this was that it is very easy now with the advent of DuelingBook to find Goats games; try doing that for something like Tele-DAD, PCM etc and it wont be as easy. People just don't play those other legacy formats as much as Goats. I hope that this will be a platform for people to play things other than Advanced or Goats.

I can also respect that the reason for Goats being so popular is because it is a fun and skill intensive format, but I'm resolute on this particular issue. I'd love to record DGz members people play PCM vs Zombies, for instance, if for no other reason than that it's something different.

I mean you don't have to play in it if you don't like it or think its easy, but goats is arguably the most popular past format meaning it increases site traffic and tournament participation. It also works well with the ELO system. 

 

But yeah I would add goats if for not other reason than it will draw a larger player base to the site which may translate to bigger tournaments in other formats. 

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+mmf    23226

how about i host 8-man DG live double elim goat tournaments?

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NB96    799
54 minutes ago, Francis J Underwood said:

I mean you don't have to play in it if you don't like it or think its easy, but goats is arguably the most popular past format meaning it increases site traffic and tournament participation. It also works well with the ELO system. 

 

But yeah I would add goats if for not other reason than it will draw a larger player base to the site which may translate to bigger tournaments in other formats. 

I've thought about it more and the fact that Goats has a large enough following means I basically just have to put it into rotation. Even though I'd enjoy seeing other things my mind has changed quickly over the past hour.

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