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NB96

DGz Live: The Return? Part 2

DGz Live; system and format details poll  

23 members have voted

  1. 1. What system of competition should be used for DGz Live tournaments?

    • Single Elimination
    • Double Elimination
    • Round-Robin
  2. 2. Should SJC/YCS prize cards cards be forbidden from play if they hadn't been mass released in time for, or during a given format?

  3. 3. Which two of the following three formats should be the final additions into the rotation? Please vote for exactly two of the three.

    • US Nationals 2007 (Troop Dupe Scoop)
    • SJC Houston 2009 (TeleDAD)
    • YCS Chicago 2014 (pre-Dragons of Legend)
  4. 4. How often should a DGz Live tournament be held?

    • Once per week
    • Once every two weeks
    • Once every three weeks
      0
    • Once a month


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NB96    795

Hello all,

I had set an arbitrary number of 15 voters minimum that I had wanted to see register their interest in my previous thread to make me think starting up DGz Live once again would be a nice idea for the members of the site and - indeed - for myself as someone who has recently shown an interest in playing past formats.

Since a satisfactory number of people have registered their interest, I have decided to investigate further what people would like to see, and in more detail than before. The previous thread was simply a broad stroke to see if something like this could have the interest to take off.

I might have just edited the poll in the previous thread but since I can't edit posts after two hours it's probably best to just make another thread, and another poll to ask these questions.

Format Rotation:
There will be 5-6 formats being considered. Currently the list has 5 but if there is high demand some time down the line for an addition (or even a removal) I can be flexible. They will be selected based on the votes from the previous thread. I previously had 17 but that's way too much. Better to have a few that are popular instead so we're more likely to get a viable turnout to play a DGz Live. It also means everybody knows when the format they are looking forward to is coming next. The current list I have is based off popular vote from the previous thread. I was thinking of making the order the following:
 

March 2010 (Plants, Blackwing, Flamvell, Gadgets, Gladiator Beast, Lightsworn, Twilight)
April 2005: pre-Exarion/CRV (Goats, Chaos Control, Chaos Turbo, Chaos Recruiter, Monarchs, Empty Jar, Burn, Ben -Kei, Gravekeepers, Grindy Gate etc)
Undecided; see below and vote in the poll (1)
Undecided; see below and vote in the poll (2)

April 2015 post-DOCS (Nekroz, Burning Abyss, Qliphort, Shaddoll, Satellarknight, Ritual Beasts, Kozmo, Majespecter, Pepe)

The third and fourth additions to the rotation will be two of the following:
March 2007 post-Emergency List (PCM, T-Hero, J-Hero, Troop Dupe, DDT, Zombies, Big City, Gadgets, Six Samurai, Demise OTK, Beasts, Baboon Burn)
September 2008 (Tele-DAD, Lightsworn, Gladiator Beast, TundoTK, OhmTK, Magical Explosion)

January 2014 pre-Dragons of Legend (Hieratic Ruler, Mermail, Geargia, Fire Fist, Bujin, Evilswarm)

These three formats all had a joint score of 7 votes in the previous thread at the time of writing, which is why they were selected. You will be allowed to vote for which of these will be used as last option for rotation. Please vote for only two of the three.


Goats has been added, despite my previous intention not to include it. My own personal feelings are that I'd love to see things other than Goats for a change but people like Goat format for a reason so I've just decided to go ahead and add it. You can thank MMF for convincing me if you'd like. Not that somebody else couldn't go ahead and host these with their own rules if they'd like. I specified pre-Exarion because that's what is being done in Wars and on DuelingBook's Unrated Goat Format section, so everybody is used to it.

Issue #1: The System

I had an argument with MMF who felt that single or double elimination would be more exciting than round-robin. I'm flexible and more than happy to change if people would prefer one of those knockout systems. So I just decided to leave it up to a vote, and if people prefer one over the other then that shouldn't be a problem.

Issue #2: Prize cards

Not all are as powerful as CCV but I don't know if it's a fair representation of what the formats were like at the time when prize cards that the vast majority of players did not have access to are being used by everybody in the tournament. If people want them though then they can be allowed. If it is decided by popular vote that prize cards are forbidden, the rules are as follows:

Example 1: Since Gold Series 1 was mass released on April 2nd 2008, Crush Card Virus may be used during the September 2008 format (if it is selected to be added into rotation), but not during the March 2007 format, where it was still exclusively an SJC prize card and had not yet been mass released.

Example 2: Minerva, The Exalted Lightsworn is forbidden in the April 2015 format, as it was a YCS prize card only during that time. The same goes for Number 106: Giant Hand, as it was not released until March 17th, 2016 in Premium Gold: Infinite Gold.

I hope I have explained this well for everybody. I defined prize card as being exclusively a prize card and having not yet been mass released. I didn't want anybody to think that I still counted something as being a prize card after it had been mass released because it had been a prize card once upon a time.

Issue #3: How often should a tournament be held?

Please bear in mind that the more often they are hosted, the less time you have to practice for each. Not that there's anything at stake of course, but this should be kept in mind.

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NB96    795

I've made a big change to the poll. Apologies to @Digbick and @Dango who have already voted prior to the changes; you may have to vote again. Also, I don't know if it has automatically made you vote for once per week on the rotation when I made the changes or if you actually selected that, so please double-check that your vote is on the right one.

There is more structure now than there was an hour ago. 17 formats was way, way too much. Sorry to those who already voted re: honor bans. I don't think it's wise for me to start making custom formats. MMF has been helping me structure this out, since he had quietly put thought into reviving DGz Live/DGCS in his own time. I started the rotaion with March 2010 because it got the most votes in the previous thread and put Goats after hoping that if all goes well for Edison, that momentum will carry over to Goats and so on. Round 3 and onward I just picked at random admittedly.

I chose April with DOCS rather than without because nobody really got a chance to explore that format with the larger card pool of DOCS. If I recall, it only lasted a week or two. Kozmo wasn't too bad against Nekroz if I remember correctly. Elder Entity Norden and Old Entity Hastorr were also legal due to being Mega Tin Promos during that format. With hindsight I should have done better to specify what I meant in the previous poll.

I wish September 2006 had gotten more votes personally because I really like Chimeratech Oveerdragon but oh well.

Edited by NB96

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Sophocles    2748

Double elim as the standard because RR starts taking far too long once you have a semi-decent turnout, and single elim doesn't let people play as much.

Then RR if you literally have 5 people turn up and Single elim in case of organizational difficulties. (Too many people or some exceptional circumstances)

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+Gemstone Mine    2595

one thing you do need to clarify is what exactly we would be playing teledad wise.

 

Oppression legal?

 

CSOC legal?

 

Those are two very important questions.

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+ACP+    33975

"Honor bans" shouldn't be a thing. Royal Oppressions was a part of TeleDAD format (and wasn't even very good, mind you) so we should be allowed to play with it.

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NB96    795

Also I want to apologise for handling of April 2015. I initially was ignoring DOCS, had second thoughts after Brandis mentioned CORE and DOCS in a post and then decided to treat DOCS as legal. This was because I thought people might enjoy that mini-format where the addition of DOCS added three competitive decks (Kozmo, PePe and Majespecter) made the field more diverse. But because I went back on my decision I feared that people voted for it assuming DOCS would not be legal because I didn't specify things well at all.

 

Also @Gemstone Mine you're right on CSOC. I should have figured out whether to allow it or not before I made this thread. I might ask a couple people on the site what they think. It was a while ago but I'm pretty sure CSOC adds BRD and Black Salvo as two very important additions. I know Salvo DAD was popular for a while.

 

I probably rushed into making this thread. I originally asked if we should honor ban cards in March and September 2013 but I think it was right to remove them from poll. I've made a great deal of mistakes already trying to get this to work but I'm trying to be flexible because I have never TO'd before so I knew I'd mess up a lot beforehand.

 

I will leave this poll up for longer to solve the CSOC issue, and because it's pretty tight at the time of writing between the three formats. The CSOC decision might make people vote for or against so I'll need to give plenty of time for everybody to change their mind if they want. Once that's decided I'll just tag everybody who voted September 2008 in the post so they see it and know whether or not to change their mind.

Edited by NB96

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petqwe    288

Black Salvo is in 603 (called Crimson Crisis?), not 602.

 

How many tournaments were held before / after 602? Will knowing this help determine whether it should be legal?

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NB96    795
1 hour ago, petqwe said:

Black Salvo is in 603 (called Crimson Crisis?), not 602.

 

How many tournaments were held before / after 602? Will knowing this help determine whether it should be legal?

Oh my bad.

 

MMF edited the poll to specify card legality based on events, not f/l lists. This is probably a better way to approach it.

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Jazz    4755

Why did you remove sept 2012 wind up?

 

My picks would be: Goat, Troop Dup, Edison, Wind Up, whatever the fuck 2015 is called

 

p.s. nobody ever referred to 2007 nationals as pcm format (it is called troop dup, if you want to give it a more streamlined moniker, call it trooper format)

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Jazz    4755

p.p.s. if you want to make goat more spicy, make people play CRV goat

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NB96    795
14 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Why did you remove sept 2012 wind up?

 

My picks would be: Goat, Troop Dup, Edison, Wind Up, whatever the fuck 2015 is called

 

p.s. nobody ever referred to 2007 nationals as pcm format (it is called troop dup, if you want to give it a more streamlined moniker, call it trooper format)

I removed September 2012 because it only had 6 votes, I had it there before because I miscounted. I like January 2014 but I would have enjoyed going further back personally. Hopefully Troop Dupe will outvote it. I remember using Six Samurai back then. Also I still don't fully get the difference between the J-Hero and T-Hero decks on your formatlibrary website. J-Hero had Magical Merchants in the list on the website so maybe it's a little more passive and tries to explode later on.

 

Also CRV Goats sounds cool to me personally. But the main reason I added Goats at all is because I know people will wanna play it. I can't be sure that people wont just ignore Goats when it becomes more aggro due to having Cyber Dragon. At least if I keep Goats standard I know people will play. So even though CRV Goats sounds like fun I'd rather just be sure I'm getting 8 players at all.

Edited by NB96

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+Gemstone Mine    2595
9 hours ago, NB96 said:

Also @Gemstone Mine you're right on CSOC. I should have figured out whether to allow it or not before I made this thread. I might ask a couple people on the site what they think. It was a while ago but I'm pretty sure CSOC adds BRD and Black Salvo as two very important additions. I know Salvo DAD was popular for a while.

The most important addition is plaguespreader, but  yeah.

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NB96    795
38 minutes ago, Gemstone Mine said:

The most important addition is plaguespreader, but  yeah.

CSOC is legal in TeleDAD.

Edited by NB96

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Jazz    4755
5 hours ago, NB96 said:

Also I still don't fully get the difference between the J-Hero and T-Hero decks on your formatlibrary website. J-Hero had Magical Merchants in the list on the website so maybe it's a little more passive and tries to explode later on.

 

 

J-hero uses 2nd rota, merchants, tomatoes, book, pwwb, and 3 raiza. Classic T-hero used 3 trooper, 3 cydra, jinzo and dmoc, and sometimes dup and limiter.

 

I tested the deck a lot but it would be nice to see how it performs in the lives. It's unproven in that regard.

 

I really hope that format 'wins' the poll but it looks like it won't. It's definitely the 'edison format' of its generation because there are 10+ viable and nearly equally good decks.

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NB96    795
3 hours ago, Jazz said:

 

J-hero uses 2nd rota, merchants, tomatoes, book, pwwb, and 3 raiza. Classic T-hero used 3 trooper, 3 cydra, jinzo and dmoc, and sometimes dup and limiter.

 

I tested the deck a lot but it would be nice to see how it performs in the lives. It's unproven in that regard.

 

I really hope that format 'wins' the poll but it looks like it won't. It's definitely the 'edison format' of its generation because there are 10+ viable and nearly equally good decks.

Troop Dupe has taken the lead on Jan 14 now. I like Jan 14 and think its is fairly balanced but maybe people have had enough of Gears, Water and Fire Fist over the last few years at this point. Water did always have the advantage against them in the end.

 

PCM didn't top 8 US Nats that year strangely. Maybe the shitload of D.D. Crows caught up with the Destiny Hero engine. GK Spy was everywhere in top 8, even Machine Beatdown added them + Raiza's. LaDD was out in time for Nats too right? Funny that people call this Troop Dupe yet achine Duplication was a dead piece of shit half the time because the only target was Card Trooper.

 

I also distinctly remember one guy at my locals called Faisal always doing well with Demise. Idk how anybody could play that shit with a straight face when you're running 4-6 vanillas. I've no idea how it won even one SJC. It looks inconsistent on paper but maybe Manju + Senju + Sonic Bird package made up for drawing the occasional Neo Bug lol. The deck never really worked out for me personally. Also were those old Demise players allergic to Reckless Greed? Jar of Greeds everywhere in Demise lists from what I can tell. Maybe Reckless was on the f/l list at the time.

 

Was J-Hero an OCG thing? I'm assuming J stands for Japanese. I only recall T-Hero at the time.

Edited by NB96

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»TRUMPOLOGIST    14522

Ladd didn't come out until like December of that year. 

 

I piloted Demise with tremendous success. It was a great deck until people started maining dustshoot and mind crush, after that it couldn't compete. Reckless greed was probably at 2 at the time.  

 

I have no clue what j hero is. 

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NB96    795
17 minutes ago, TRUMPOLOGIST said:

Ladd didn't come out until like December of that year. 

 

I piloted Demise with tremendous success. It was a great deck until people started maining dustshoot and mind crush, after that it couldn't compete. Reckless greed was probably at 2 at the time.  

 

I have no clue what j hero is. 

Maybe it's just me then. I still think drawing those Insect Knights and Neo Bugs must have been just awful when people were summoning Troopers or Stratos against you.

 

Green Baboon could revive itself when it died from battle right? I remember there was a ruling change on it but idk if that change was part of this format or not. I can't remember exactly what the change was but I do know the card was supposed to be bananas before at the time and was still a very good card afterwards.

 

I see two people who have voted for January 2014 but nothing else. Please vote for a second format or I wont know if I should really count those two votes. Even if you don't care about Troop Dupe or Tele DAD you can just ignore them when the rotation arrives at those formats.

Edited by NB96

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+mmf    23221

thanks for the corrections @Jazz and @TRUMPOLOGIST, poll option edited accordingly

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NB96    795

I just found out Baboon used to work in the damage step but that got a ruling change later on, great card though.

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