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Jazz

Cat Mafia Aftergame - Scum Wins

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Jazz    5327

This was a classic example of town failing to identify each other and work together. On day one, three of the strongest town players, PSK, iSlickz, and 2k17 each identified and voted for scum. However, each found a different scum, didn't do enough to work with each other, and didn't do enough to convince town that they were right.

 

I don't even think scum played all that well. Solstice hit quota every day and had several TL;DR posts that were rather curious and obviously lacked town thought process, but I would guess few people read them carefully. Faint barely posted and his floating and lack of follow through got him killed by Soph on the first day of LYLO.

 

Malcolm posted pretty well overall, but in order to believe he was town, you would have to believe he voted for 3x town to start the game and scanned 2x town players at night. This is just not possible. Malcolm does not go 0-for-5 when looking for scum on this site. Having the ability to fake claim cop without a counter claim was pretty important to survive early, but it was not enough for him to coast through the end of the game. He still had to post well and project town, which he did.

 

Slick correctly called Malcolm scum on day one for attempting to pocket him and Broken. His mistake was not articulating this very well and not making the connection that scum!Malcolm likely meant town!Broken as well.

 

Town MVP: Nobody

Nobody on town played well enough to get this award.

 

Town HM: PSK

Was correct to identify Malcolm as scum on day 2, remained unfazed by the cop claim, and actually worked with a fellow town in Slick, which is more than I can say about any other town player this game.

 

Town LVP: Broken

Did nothing but tunnel a single townie, used his ability poorly, and gave up. Close between him and Walia, but at least Walia voted for scum at one point. I could also give it to Chev, but Chev has only played a few games, so overall Broken played the furthest below expectation.

 

Scum LVP: Faint

Fell asleep at LYLO and nearly cost scum the game

 

Scum MVP: Malcolm

Default, decent posting as explained above, projected town well and controlled the narrative for scum after PSK and Slick died

 

Roles + Night actions:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NE2E-u7GXrVuvs8s8AnLy7spFWsU8DGdHCqmp35ApBc/edit?usp=sharing

 

Scum roles: Item Thief, Full Cop, Jailkeeper (note: scum did not actually have fake claims, their actual roles were their fake claims)

Town roles: Inventor (this was the best role in the game), Protector, Copycat, Universal Backup, 6x Vanillas

 

Scum chat:

https://discord.gg/nXEHma

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»JC.    4973

it is ok jazz i know you really wanted to give me scum mvp but since i am not technically in the game i guess malcolm is alright too

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+scuzzlebutt    23484

lol

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Solstice    389
Just now, JC. said:

it is ok jazz i know you really wanted to give me scum mvp but since i am not technically in the game i guess malcolm is alright too

You saved me from being scum LVP so it's like the same thing.  Thanks for coaching me and preventing me from messing up even more than I already did this game.  You even made it kind of fun to be scum.

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Jazz    5327
4 minutes ago, Solstice said:

You saved me from being scum LVP so it's like the same thing.  Thanks for coaching me and preventing me from messing up even more than I already did this game.  You even made it kind of fun to be scum.

 

ya sol, my coaching advice to you would be to have fun with the game and actually post+play without fear. Don't be afraid to make mistakes or get lynched as scum. Shit happens. When you have perfect info, you will think things are worse for your team than they actually are. You have to remember that town is more 'in the dark' than you think.

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+Sophocles    3075

town played this game effectively without powers because of either shitty player or shitty role. Deserves mentioning.

 

11 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Malcolm posted pretty well overall, but in order to believe he was town, you would have to believe he voted for 3x town to start the game and scanned 2x town players at night. This is just not possible. Malcolm does not go 0-for-5 when looking for scum on this site.

that's kind of the definition of perfect info spectator analysis

I'm not going to complain (because after all I still think two town cops is not bastard) and I totally own the mistake of being lazy and not looking at Malcolm's play more closely but you kind of need to acknowledge that a scumplayer having the opportunity to claim cop without counterclaims is a decent opportunity.

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+scuzzlebutt    23484

malcolm could claim cop and be CCed by 3 diff ppl and dgz town would still probably follow him

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Jazz    5327

In order for Malcolm to be town cop, you also have to explain why PSK would protect Malcolm after he advocated killing him despite the claim, and why Slick's ability failed after Malcolm claimed cop (implying scum chose to RB Slick instead of the claimed cop Malcolm).

 

Slick also had no reason to claim that he could verify Malcolm's role in the thread before he got to use his night action on Malcolm. That was just asking for scum malcolm's team to roleblock him. If he had not claimed, he could have copied malcolm's ability, learned it was alignment+role cop, and gotten a free scan.

 

Like, it was a good role for the scum team to have, but it's not the reason town lost. You lost because of lack of teamwork and inability to lynch scum in the first 3 day phases. It's not like Solstice and Faint played well enough to avoid the lynch on those days either.

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»JC.    4973
4 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

town played this game effectively without powers because of either shitty player or shitty role. Deserves mentioning.

 

that's kind of the definition of perfect info spectator analysis

I'm not going to complain (because after all I still think two town cops is not bastard) and I totally own the mistake of being lazy and not looking at Malcolm's play more closely but you kind of need to acknowledge that a scumplayer having the opportunity to claim cop without counterclaims is a decent opportunity.

 

how DARE you give town multiple strong roles

 

Sincerely,

Town

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»JC.    4973

solstice was wonderful jazz take that back >:(

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+scuzzlebutt    23484

u literally tagged malcolm at the beginning of the day asking him to tell you how to vote

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+Sophocles    3075
1 minute ago, Jazz said:

In order for Malcolm to be town cop, you also have to explain why PSK would protect Malcolm after he advocated killing him despite the claim, and why Slick's ability failed after Malcolm claimed cop (implying scum chose to RB Slick instead of the claimed cop Malcolm).

 

Slick also by no means should have ever claimed that he could verify Malcolm's role in the thread before he used his night action. That was just asking for scum malcolm's team to roleblock him. If he had not claimed, he could have copied malcolm's ability, learned it was alignment+role cop, and gotten a free scan.

 

Like, it was a good role for the scum team to have, but it's not the reason town lost. You lost because of lack of teamwork and inability to lynch scum in the first 3 day phases. It's not like Solstice and Faint played well enough to avoid the lynch on those days either.

 

I'm not saying it's the reason town lost, again not going to complain excessively. And I could've/should've played around it being a possibility ideally.

Town lost because of various mistakes compounding (looking at you, Walia...) but I'm just saying your analysis that people should've just seen through that cop claim.

 

 

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Jazz    5327
2 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

@Nelrick Sorry you feel frustrated, fwiw I tried pretty hard too and went back and read a lot, sucks.

 

 

 

The loss isn't squarely on you guys at all, just because you were alive at the end of the game. Plenty of people contributed to town's loss and mislynches on days 1-3.

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Jazz    5327
1 minute ago, Sophocles said:

 

I'm not saying it's the reason town lost, again not going to complain excessively. And I could've/should've played around it being a possibility ideally.

Town lost because of various mistakes compounding (looking at you, Walia...) but I'm just saying your analysis that people should've just seen through that cop claim.

 

 

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there were holes in the claim if you looked for them. I'm sorry you didn't consider that scum could have had the cop fake claim, but there's nothing I can do about that. I don't think it was a design flaw in the game by any stretch of the imagination. I get your frustration though.

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+Sophocles    3075
1 minute ago, mmf said:

u literally tagged malcolm at the beginning of the day asking him to tell you how to vote

I asked his opinion because I was operating under the assumption we were both town and actually agreeing on a lynch target is relevant.

My last long post where I explained why I thought Wunter/Nelrick was the team echoed parts of what Malcolm had said but on my word that was actually what I thought before he posted and at that moment I was actually pretty relieved because I felt we had the same idea of events

 

Malcolm pocketed me and that was well played by him, def going to be even more paranoid in the future

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Wunterslaus    225

Can I have something else then vt next time please? I've roled it way too much lately

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+Sophocles    3075
Just now, Jazz said:

 

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying there were holes in the claim if you looked for them. I'm sorry you didn't consider that scum could have had the cop fake claim, but there's nothing I can do about that. I don't think it was a design flaw in the game by any stretch of the imagination. I get your frustration though.

No my complaint is literally that you don't mention it in your analysis of the game while it's a sizeable advantage, not that it shouldn't have been in the game

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»PSK    4447
Just now, Wunterslaus said:

Can I have something else then vt next time please? I've roled it way too much lately

vt is the best role tho 

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Jazz    5327
6 minutes ago, Wunterslaus said:

Can I have something else then vt next time please? I've roled it way too much lately

 

That's not how RNG works. Vanilla Town is also a great role for practicing the fundamentals of mafia. As this game shows, town shouldn't rely on powers to confirm themselves as town. Play > Roles. I personally love rolling VT because I don't have to do anything except reread to look for scum during the night phase, and I like playing town more than playing scum.

 

5 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

No my complaint is literally that you don't mention it in your analysis of the game while it's a sizeable advantage, not that it shouldn't have been in the game

 

I wrote this up in like 5 minutes, didn't expect a hammer today. Honestly thought you guys would lynch Sol because 2k's death confirmed Sol was scum, like Nelrick said. Anyway, I thought it was an interesting point and I do think it should have been a small red-flag.

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+Sophocles    3075

Yeah I definitely outplayed myself on that 2k NK

 

I distinctly remember thinking and maybe even posting at some point that if Malcolm was scum town lost anyways because we needed to lynch correctly at LYLO three times without 2-3 confirmed towns. So I don't even regret the game much.

 

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Wunterslaus    225

It's less fun than you think when you role it +80% of the times

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Jazz    5327
Just now, Wunterslaus said:

It's less fun than you think when you role it +80% of the times

 

No offense but I don't like this attitude

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Wunterslaus    225
1 minute ago, Sophocles said:

Yeah I definitely outplayed myself on that 2k NK

 

I distinctly remember thinking and maybe even posting at some point that if Malcolm was scum town lost anyways because we needed to lynch correctly at LYLO three times without 2-3 confirmed towns. So I don't even regret the game much.

 

You tunneled me for an conversation of two replies. I still don't know why

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