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Jazz

Cat Mafia Aftergame - Scum Wins

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»JC.    4971

alright.

pm me if you ever want to vent

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+mmf    23488

lol

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+Sophocles    3074

From my end I explained very carefully why faint 100% *had* to be scum (which ironically was also the wrong reasoning because it assumed Malcolm to be scum) and you didn't switch your vote, so my frustration was entirely valid I felt. In fact your refusal to even consider switching didn't do you any favours in my book.

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2K18    255
1 minute ago, Sophocles said:

I listened to your reasoning, decided that the blitz argument was bullshit, so I ignored it.

Shoutout to you for being right on Solstice, but being right doesn't mean your reasoning is also correct. I still think that argument was wrong.

I don't understand how that's wrong whatsoever especially at the end of the day. It's as airtight as evidence can get on LYLO without a confirmed report. I'm not asking for shoutouts, I'm asking you to just use math.

 

Here's the wagon at EoD:

Final Vote Count:

Faint - (3) Solstice, Wunter, Nelrick

Solstice - (1) 2k17

 

Neither you nor Malcolm were voting. Assuming it was Wunter + Nelrick they could just switch - or one of them could switch and Faint could hammer. All of the scumspects voted for Faint, which means that the lynch is Scum vs. Scum. Scum wins otherwise. ESPECIALLY after I die and am confirmed town.

 

It isn't up for debate.

 

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2K18    255
1 minute ago, Sophocles said:

From my end I explained very carefully why faint 100% *had* to be scum (which ironically was also the wrong reasoning because it assumed Malcolm to be scum) and you didn't switch your vote, so my frustration was entirely valid I felt. In fact your refusal to even consider switching didn't do you any favours in my book.

I didn't move my vote because Solstice was confirmed FMPOV and I wasn't entirely convinced that you and Malcolm were 100% town which was a proper suspicion. Lynching Faint was kind of lucky.

 

We had evidence that Solst was scum (lack of wagon or any pressure votes placed there, all of the scumspects ignoring him and going after other people for ostensibly no reason)

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Jazz    5322
11 minutes ago, BuildTheWalia said:

 

I 100% could've played a lot better, but I don't think I didn't project town (certainly more than some others).

 

 

It wasn't as obvious as in your other game. Seemed like you were doing something else or trying to lay low because you were inventor?

 

Giving PSK the BPV was a perfectly good move. Your night actions were fine but your day posting got you lynched which has nothing to do with your role, right? I'm just saying you shouldn't be getting lynched EVER when you can claim inventor, which you didn't even claim. If you are going to get lynched, you just claim and hand out an item to prove that you're real (or you soak up a scum roleblock)

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2K18    255

AS for why I didn't verbalize all of this as eloquently as I am now, it's because I was on my phone at work and literally couldn't. I tried to say it as best as possible and I understand that it may be confusing, but mafia veterans should be able to pick on logic like that because it's just math.

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Jazz    5322

Yeah. I didn't like the 2k17 nightkill because it confirms that Sol was scum. Today should have been auto...

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Jazz    5322

Also shoutouts to the mascis N1 NK, sickest NK of all time

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2K18    255

Keep in mind "evidence" for Solst being scum implies I'm town, which wasn't confirmed, but I told you guys to lynch between me and solstice, not to just "lynch solstice." one of us has to be scum there at least

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+Sophocles    3074

I'm not going to repeat 'scum isn't always able to coordinate perfectly' ad infinitum, I'm not gonna change my mind on the day itself.

 

On the EoD vote count: It did catch my eye but I had no way of knowing if Wunter was active near EoD because I wasn't on so I ended up ignoring it, which I obviously shouldn't have.

 

It's easy to say it was lucky to lynch faint in retrospect, the evidence for him that day was a lot stronger

 

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Jazz    5322

they don't have to coordinate anything...

 

2k left the vote on for almost 36 hours and gave no indication he would move it even if someone scummy followed with a 2nd vote

 

the only thing was to be skeptical as to whether 2k was a godfather, which is legit, but once he dies and flips vanilla town, you should auto lynch solstice

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Jazz    5322

I think nel made a typo on the final day and meant to say that solstice was 100% scum and on both of his scum teams...

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2K18    255
2 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

I'm not going to repeat 'scum isn't always able to coordinate perfectly' ad infinitum, I'm not gonna change my mind on the day itself.

They wouldn't have had to coordinate perfectly in that scenario because it was like, fypov if it's wunter and nelrick as a team, literally only them voting faint and bussing (why?) and I was voting Solstice for, like, the entire phase

 

That scum can't coordinate at all isn't an assumption you should make, they have a discord chat channel and at least 2 were online at the same times through a lot of the day

 

Really bad reasoning for discounting mechanical evidence like that

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BuildTheWalia    247
12 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

It wasn't as obvious as in your other game. Seemed like you were doing something else or trying to lay low because you were inventor?

 

Giving PSK the BPV was a perfectly good move. Your night actions were fine but your day posting got you lynched which has nothing to do with your role, right? I'm just saying you shouldn't be getting lynched EVER when you can claim inventor, which you didn't even claim. If you are going to get lynched, you just claim and hand out an item to prove that you're real (or you soak up a scum roleblock)

I was trying to "lay low", but I guess it isn't my style. I loved Mascis's playing of inventor and wanted to emulate that, but I knew there was no way I could play it off in a game with no neutral roles.  Thanks for the advice!

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Jazz    5322
2 minutes ago, BuildTheWalia said:

I was trying to "lay low", but I guess it isn't my style. I loved Mascis's playing of inventor and wanted to emulate that, but I knew there was no way I could play it off in a game with no neutral roles.  Thanks for the advice!

 

My top advice to playing PRs is to post like you are vanilla town

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2K18    255

If "scum didn't coordinate perfectly and decided to bus for no reason when they can win in 1 day while a misguided towny is misvoting, then they killed that same towny who's misvoting the next phase so they can't capitalize on it at all" is your theory for solving the game you need to apply Occam's Razor. I'm going to leave it at that.

 

I don't think the problem solving you applied that time is defensible. Which is OK, this is just a game for fun and my posts just now were definitely more rude than they should have been, just keep it in mind for later.

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+Sophocles    3074
1 minute ago, 2k17! said:

They wouldn't have had to coordinate perfectly in that scenario because it was like, fypov if it's wunter and nelrick as a team, literally only them voting faint and bussing (why?) and I was voting Solstice for, like, the entire phase

 

That scum can't coordinate at all isn't an assumption you should make, they have a discord chat channel and at least 2 were online at the same times through a lot of the day

 

Really bad reasoning for discounting mechanical evidence like that

 

wunter wouldn't have been able to not vote faint (if he were scum) without drawing major attention. they needed 3 people online to blitz the vote.

4 minutes ago, Jazz said:

they don't have to coordinate anything...

 

2k left the vote on for almost 36 hours and gave no indication he would move it even if someone scummy followed with a 2nd vote

 

the only thing was to be skeptical as to whether 2k was a godfather, which is legit, but once he dies and flips vanilla town, you should auto lynch solstice

FMPOV scum team of Nelrick/Faint/Wunter couldn't hammer without Nelrick who was missing. When he eventually did show up there were no posts from Faint/Wunter for a while so they could've been offline.

I don't think any scum team would assume they could put the vote in hammering range and then just expect 2k to keep his vote set.

Yeah I could monitor player activity by just looking at who's reading the thread but that's still against the rules afaik

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2K18    255

If that's your reasoning I can't argue against it, you automatically assume a scum team so incompetent that they can't figure out a way to wagon on a rogue vote in the span of 36 hours. This will very rarely be the case in any game. But if you won't accept it then there's no more point in talking about it.

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+Sophocles    3074
10 minutes ago, 2k17! said:

If "scum didn't coordinate perfectly and decided to bus for no reason when they can win in 1 day while a misguided towny is misvoting, then they killed that same towny who's misvoting the next phase so they can't capitalize on it at all" is your theory for solving the game you need to apply Occam's Razor. I'm going to leave it at that.

 

I don't think the problem solving you applied that time is defensible. Which is OK, this is just a game for fun and my posts just now were definitely more rude than they should have been, just keep it in mind for later.

You're mixing up your posts on day 4 and what I did on day 5. Yeah I outplayed myself when you died I already admitted to that.

But your blitz theory when you were still alive still has holes in it.

 

I was not operating under the certainty that scum couldn't coordinate, hence why I didn't townread Solstice. But I knew it was a certainty Faint was scum so I instead chose to lynch him.

did accept the possibility that scum could be having trouble hammering the vote, which 100% is possible because I've been in that situation as scum before. So your reasoning that day wasn't a shut case at all, therefore I went for Faint.

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2K18    255
Just now, Sophocles said:

You're mixing up your posts on day 4 and what I did on day 5. Yeah I outplayed myself when you died I already admitted to that.

But your blitz theory when you were still alive still has holes in it.

 

I was not operating under the certainty that scum couldn't coordinate, hence why I didn't townread Solstice. But I knew it was a certainty Faint was scum so I instead chose to lynch him.

But I did accept the possibility that scum could be having trouble hammering the vote, which 100% is possible because I've been in that situation as scum before. So your reasoning that day wasn't a shut case at all, so I went for Faint.

I'm not saying that lynching Faint was bad there, I'm just saying that not lynching Solstice after I'd been confirmed to be town was bad there. I'm not mad at you for day 4. Lynching scum is good no matter how it happens. I fully understand why you thought I could have possibly been scum on D4, but given the sparse amount of votes on the final wagon combined with my alignment flip Solstice on day 5 should have been confirmed. I was only sure of Solstice FMPOV on day 4.

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Jazz    5322

Soph why'd you change the avatar. I loved that doggy in the hello kitty costume man

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Solstice    385
21 minutes ago, 2k17! said:

Soph, how the hell did you not lynch Solstice. He was confirmed scum based on the vote wagon at the end of the day, especially because I had my vote on him all day yesterday.

 

1 minute ago, Sophocles said:

I'm not going to repeat 'scum isn't always able to coordinate perfectly' ad infinitum, I'm not gonna change my mind on the day itself.

I wasn't confirmed scum (though it was made much more likely) because what soph said is exactly true. Scum can't always coordiante, and Nelrick was AFK when the others were active, and vice versa.  Once you flipped either me or nelrick had to be scum based on the fact I wasn't hammered, but it was still up for debate.  I wrote up a whole thing on it that never actually made it into the game thread because wunter was still being considered and this would have eliminated that, but you can read it if you want:

 



 

Wunter had 2 votes at one point (faint and Malcom).  Could be he did not get hammered because he is scum.  If you believe wunter is town giiven faint is scum, there would have had to be 2 more scum online during this period to make this a hammer if wunter is town.  Surprisingly the only people post before the unvotes dropped were faint, Malcolm, (already both on him) wunter (not going to hammer himself) and soph (me and nelrick weren’t posting here, so objectively soph + either of us is a possible scum team, as is me + nelrick).  

 

Given my vote from 2k I don’t think soph + wunter + faint can’t be a team as they could have hammered me with 2k.  Malcolm + wunter + faint or Malcolm + soph + faint don’t work for the same reason.  So if you don’t think I am scum, this leaves nelrick having to be scum as he was the only remaining player not online that could have prevented a coordinated hammer.  

 

So looking at it that way the available scum teams are Nelrick + X or Solstice + X   Any other scum pair without either of us doesn’t work as there was potential to either hammer wunter or me at one point.  The vote should be between me and nelrick.

 

Vote nelrick.

 

 

Faint only had 2 town votes when he died, why didn't scum blitz then?  Because we couldn't get everyone online for EOD.  IRL schedules and different timezones make it hard to coordinate three separate people who are also busy irl with school/work and sleep at the least, not to mention previous social or family commitments and not being able to check the thread 24/7 because of home maintenance, meals, and family.  

11 minutes ago, 2k17! said:

We had evidence that Solst was scum (lack of wagon or any pressure votes placed there, all of the scumspects ignoring him and going after other people for ostensibly no reason)

This was actually much stronger proof that I was scum, especially taken in with the fact I wasn't hammered.  Its the same way soph caught faint.  If you had pushed both lines simulatneously you'd have had a much better shot, but basing things purely and lack of hammer doesn't always work.  Talk to mark about that, he had a scum game once where his team missed hammer opportunites in mylo/lylo for three days straight or something ridiculous like that because they couldn't all get online at the same time.

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2K18    255

I personally felt lynching Faint was lucky because Faint + Wunter were obviously not a team FMPOV so it felt more natural and safe to lynch Solstice, given how towny I thought Nelrick was.

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