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SPYRAL - Discussion

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+Mascis    4553

I had a big thread explaining each card but it got deleted, so here is the half-assed version just for the sake of having a thread. I'm going to work on re-writing this, but I lost two hours of work today and I don't want to not have a thread up since this deck is going to be pretty important very soon. Thanks for understanding!

 

S P Y R A L

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SPYRAL was a previous TCG exclusive theme based off of James Bond lore. The Deck revolves around spying on the top cards of your opponent's deck to generate advantage by searching for cards and summoning monsters. Like all modern decks, you are attempting to build a board in which your opponent can't break. If they don break it, you can simply go off again since you gained so much card advantage.

 

DECK  B R E A K D O W N

 

 

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Your goal turn one to summon SPYRAL Quick-Fix to search SPYRAL GEAR-Drone, then summon Drone and look at the top three cards of your opponent's deck. From there you can go into Spyral Double Helix --->

 

 

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Double Helix allows you to get SPYRAL Master Plan from your deck --->

 

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Master Plan leads to Resort --->

 

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Which leads you to the boss monster, Sleeper --->

 

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Your goal is to end with Sleeper equipped with Last Resort. Last Resort not only protects Sleeper, buy allows you target Sleeper for his own effect and not have Sleeper be destroyed due to Last Resort and destroying up to two cards your opponent controls at a quick effect.

 

 

 

The deck is effective in summoning tons of Links and has a great chunk of support options that you can play around with. Here is an in-depth guide created by The Organization that explains the Double Helix combos better than i can via text:

 

 

S A M P L E  DECKLIST

 

MONSTER CARDS (19):

 

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.Sammy    41

A couple things I've been wondering from testing; Gofu. Is it worth playing Gofu making it easy to setup the extra link board even though there's no Linkuriboh to make going straight into Firewall Dragon then triggering its summon from hand effect to go in. I haven't had too much time to test so as such haven't had an opportunity to practice playing out hands and different end boards ect and that makes it hard to know whether the card makes that big a difference. It's only really good when you brick with it cause you can go straight into Firewall with Gofu + any normal summon. 

 

The second thing thats come up a lot for me is the correct amount of Missions & Gears to play. The more SPYRAL MISSION - Rescue you play the more times you can summon Master Allan back for free and grab another Rescue to pitch for Quick Fix and keep going like that. The issue with so many engine cards plus so many other combo cards added in Set Rotation, Ravine + Destrudo, Gofu as well as hand traps the deck space becomes very tight and to accomodate everything comfortably pushes the main deck over 40 cards. You don't want to draw your Missions or Gears except Drone so going over 40 might not be the worst thing with all the search power.

 

The third thing that I notice for the deck is board wipes + hand traps are very powerful vs this deck. Ghost Reaper on Double Helix can end the game right there as well 3 Evenly Matched being a thing means that dropping your whole deck on the board turn 1 can be a dangerous play unless we can consistently counter it. Things like Debunk are too slow to counter things turn 1.

 

The last thing I wanna touch on is going second. Finding the correct lines of play to break their boards and deciding on things like hand traps + board wipes to break their board and establish your own board or just establish and outright kill them. Practice and time will tell but will be interesting to see YCS and Regional results from here. The deck pluses that hardout when it goes off to max (consistent) potential that it can be more than double the Luna Light Zoo combo in raw advantage. That being said it may be enough to make it the single best deck in TCG like it is in the OCG but only time can tell. 

 

Edited by .Sammy
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.Sammy    41

In response to the last part of my other post Evenly Matched for the most part solved going second but everybody knows that. So the next thing would be what counters get mained or sided for Evenly Matched cause it's such a powerful card and same as Exciton the advantage it generates is worth losing the battle phase. 

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turceal    29

Well the popular already played out to evenly matched is set rotation. 

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.Sammy    41

Yes I know Set Rotation outs Evenly Matched but is that enough to feel safe in an event? Would be ideal to have an extra out to double chances of being able to respond to it. 

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knives1990    262

It's really the only thing you would realistically play outside of quick effect negations which this deck doesn't play. If played right set rotation is going to keep a card on their field all game so it doesn't really matter

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Chaos_Blaze    77

Another card that may be viable against Evenly Matched would be Artifact Lancea.

Lancea can also prevent your opponent from summoning Sleeper in the mirror (although you will likely have to do it pre-emptively). You can also side an Artifact engine (since Scythe is pretty good in the mirror) and that will also give you access to Lancea through Sanctum.

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.Sammy    41

Lancea actually really good cause it stops Evenly Matched stops them comboing off too much main phase two cause the can't banish combo and wastes their MP1 + BP.

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Jujuuu.    39

I've been playing the pure version for a while and truly believe that's the best build for the TCG. Also, a 3:2 ratio for Machine Duplication and Double Summon are what I feel is correct for the deck because increasing the amount of extenders makes opening Spyral combos going first more consistent. 

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Nate1080    1224

This deck took all but 3 spots in the top 32 of YCS Dallas (Invoked and 2 Trickstars also topped).

 

 

edit: Just read the finals feature match. Literally lasted 4 turns. This format is probably the grossest format I’ve seen since March 2008 format.

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+Mascis    4553

 

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Mr Dragon    312
On 22/10/2017 at 3:46 PM, Jujuuu. said:

I've been playing the pure version for a while and truly believe that's the best build for the TCG. Also, a 3:2 ratio for Machine Duplication and Double Summon are what I feel is correct for the deck because increasing the amount of extenders makes opening Spyral combos going first more consistent. 

Play 3/3. Stopping at 3/2 seems really random and arbitrary.

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Jujuuu.    39
11 minutes ago, Mr Dragon said:

Play 3/3. Stopping at 3/2 seems really random and arbitrary.

Stopping at 3/2 is necessary because opening multiple double summon is pretty bad because you can't really stack double summon i'm pretty sure. At least with machine dupe, you can activate more than one per turn if need be.

edit: i would also like to propose running 1 super agent in this deck because it's searchable + it's name really isnt too important as a card anymore because of the release of double helix.

Edited by Jujuuu.

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mark    3105
45 minutes ago, Mr Dragon said:

Play 3/3. Stopping at 3/2 seems really random and arbitrary.

Uh just cause it seems arbitrary doesn’t mean it is 

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+Mascis    4553

 

 

posting this at work so I haven’t watched the video but have seen the list. It’s 1 double summon might be the fight number if you’re playing double summon at all

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knives1990    262

Out of all the deck lists, I liked Gabriel Marini's the best. It's what has felt the most consistent to me, although I dropped Soul Charge to make the deck 40 and altered the side/extra a bit. Overall his explanations his choices make a lot of sense where others didn't.

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Mr Dragon    312
On 25/10/2017 at 4:55 PM, Jujuuu. said:

Stopping at 3/2 is necessary because opening multiple double summon is pretty bad because you can't really stack double summon i'm pretty sure. At least with machine dupe, you can activate more than one per turn if need be. 

The possibility of drawing multiple copies of an unsearchable three-off is not a good enough reason to play less copies of it, I believe Matt Monahan had an article that explained the reasoning more precisely, the numbers though, I think, speak for themselves.

Chances of drawing more than one Double Summon going first 0.036% - one in 28 games.
Chances of drawing more than one Double Summon going second 0.054% - one in 18 games.

I don't think drawing it in multiples perhaps twice in a 16 round event is going to outweigh the benefits of having more cards that allow you into a combo.

 

Drawing it with a way to play already that isn't double summon isn't even a problem, since it's either irrelevant to the chances of your combo going through or it'll allow you to continue to make a play if they can disrupt you through Ashing Machine Dupe, for example. And you'll never otherwise brick more because you're playing Double Summon since you should be playing as many copies of your main combo pieces as you can anyway, for maximum consistency.

 

On 25/10/2017 at 5:29 PM, mark said:

Uh just cause it seems arbitrary doesn’t mean it is 

This is a fairly pointless thing to say. Either you can come up with a reason why that specific ratio happens to be correct, or you can't. If that 'ratio' isn't arbitrary then you should be able to reasonably defend it, and if that logic was good enough I'd accept it because asking for a good defence of that statement was part of the point to my post to begin with.
 

Edited by Mr Dragon
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knives1990    262

Depends what your goal is. Do you not care about your deck size? If so, double summon could be included. However if you want to run 40 cards, you're beginning to make decisions regarding non engine cards. Are you playing hand traps or are you playing extenders like double summon? there are a lot of things you can get away with more or less when you run 40 cards. Things like not having to use more than 2 super agent, more consistency in seeing hand traps, things like that. Imo Gofu is a lot better than double summon. They both serve similar purposes, one of them is a 1 card play though whereas double summon requires more 

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mark    3105
3 hours ago, Mr Dragon said:

The possibility of drawing multiple copies of an unsearchable three-off is not a good enough reason to play less copies of it, I believe Matt Monahan had an article that explained the reasoning more precisely, the numbers though, I think, speak for themselves.

Chances of drawing more than one Double Summon going first 0.036% - one in 28 games.
Chances of drawing more than one Double Summon going second 0.054% - one in 18 games.

I don't think drawing it in multiples perhaps twice in a 16 round event is going to outweigh the benefits of having more cards that allow you into a combo.

 

Drawing it with a way to play already that isn't double summon isn't even a problem, since it's either irrelevant to the chances of your combo going through or it'll allow you to continue to make a play if they can disrupt you through Ashing Machine Dupe, for example. And you'll never otherwise brick more because you're playing Double Summon since you should be playing as many copies of your main combo pieces as you can anyway, for maximum consistency.

 

This is a fairly pointless thing to say. Either you can come up with a reason why that specific ratio happens to be correct, or you can't. If that 'ratio' isn't arbitrary then you should be able to reasonably defend it, and if that logic was good enough I'd accept it because asking for a good defence of that statement was part of the point to my post to begin with.
 

Well the thing is this deck requires to play a lot of engine cards you have to play + hand traps to the point where it’s not about double drawing dupe / double summon, but rather, the deck functioning without as well as dupe losing vs ash and what not. Dupe and double arent the only combo’s this deck has and therefore 6 isn’t necessary at all. 

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mark    3105

So the defense is they arent necessarily as important as the spyrals and the fields and the hand traps basically 

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knives1990    262

Right, I would be arguing that you need handtraps for sure, and you obviously need spyrals, but you also need set rotation package to bring even more consistency to the table in opening hand strength. From there, even if you're playing minimal on the GEARs you are still packed for deck space. You could argue that you can use DS over say gofu, but really I wouldnt

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.Sammy    41

Looking forward to seeing what was popular at the ARG this weekend. Have been testing multiple Dragon Ravine with Destrudo + Darkwurm as then Ravine + any monster becomes Ancient Fairy -> Resort. Ravine also helps accomodate for playing multiple MISSION spell/trap cards. 

 

An issue I've found with SPYRAL now is the chance that you don't open a way to get to Quik-Fix/Drone. In saying that when you can get to Quik-Fix you need Quik-Fix + extender to go off and when you have Drone you generally need Super Agent or another extender to do anything. Having Dragon Ravine + any monster allowing you to go into AFD for further access to SPYRAL Resort and therefore your combo via Quik-Fix/Drone. AFD helps as well because it lets you special a guy from hand to start the Double Helix play. Dragon Ravine discarding a SPYRAL when you open Big Red is also awesome. The other thing with Ravine is that it allows you to play more copies of MISSION cards without them being super bricky. They are still less than ideal to draw but being able to ditch them off Ravine helps a ton. I mention more MISSION cards as there's a lot of combos that involve 2 Master Plan -> Tomahawk and things like that, so have been testing out 2 Master Plan among other things.

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knives1990    262

Spyral was big at the event. I played it and finished 18th, but there were at least 5 in top 16. Deck focuses on double summon and foolish goods

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