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Urthor

Trails in the Sky is the best RPG Japan has ever made

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Aaron    1979

I was thinking back to Cold steel 1/2... both have their flaws but to anyone that doesn't mind spoilers, its cast of characters include:

 

 

 


an adopted boy from a family of nobles whom are very modest and he has some underlying phenomenon of making him have almost demonic powers

an millionaire girl whos mum is owner of the hugest corporation and therefore neglects her and a grandfather who was kicked out by his mother and remains one of the best scientific minds of his generation

a nerdy kid who wanted to be in a music academy rather than a military one, his dad is one of the best generals in the world, his mum died and his sister is a darling 

a forigener from very peaceful lands who pretty much lives a nice life in the mountains

a mage whom is from a secret cult which we don't know too much about even now other than that shes sisters with one of the villans

a girl who was raised by jaegers/mercenaries since being a small child but was then disowned by the corp

a boy from one of the big 4 noble houses who embraces his noble heritage but can critically analyse where its wrong

a boy from the inner city whos dad is now mayor and hates nobles initally 

a girl whos dad is probably the strongest swordsman in the world and thats what she aspires to

a boy whos past is a bit of a mystery but a happy go lucky guy whom has BIG ASS revelations later on in the series

a teacher whom is a also an ex mercenary

a teacher whom is one of the strongest army generals in the world 

a maid whom is actually one of the strongest most incredible people in the world and actually apart of one of the biggest criminal organisations in the world 

a railway/army girl whom has strong alllegiances to the chancellor and is incredibly gifted and strong

a little girl who controls a huge ass robot from the intelligence division who doesn't know much about her past

 

[these are the main playable characters of the series lmao] 

 

etc.

etc.

etc.

and then ontop of that we have CORRESPONDING villains for most of those characters which help spur on and develop multiple plot points including:

a villain whom shares the same form of demonic power as the protagonist and wants to only fight the strongest

2 ex-mercenraries known to the little girl who was apart of that

another girl with a robot from the same workshop but little else known about her

a very gratious knight/swordsman girl who seems to not have an ounce of mallice yet fights on the side of the bad guys 

a very very flamboyant lover of the world in bleuabanc (trails in the sky ppl will know about this guy). 

 

 

I've missed out A LOT of characters btw but thats more than most RPGs even touch on. 

 
 

 

Edited by Aaron

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Aaron    1979
On 01/12/2017 at 6:53 AM, Urthor said:

 

Actual story written about actual human beings, beautiful writing, insane area design, great soundtrack and well paced grind/gameplay.  Easily better than FF6/7/9/10/Chrono Trigger in my mind.  

 

 

Speaking of Chrono Trigger... can u explain why people rate it as the best game available at present? 

 

I get the chrono trigger love but I don't see why its one of the best games of all time. The dialogue and characterisation is clearly lack lustre compared to any trails game. The mechanics are great in regards to time travel (revolutionary) but I wouldn't say thats a reason for it to be known as the best game of all time. The battle system is good, not amazing. 

A lot of these old loved RPGs normally have average translations, average dialogue, poor characterisation especially for the protagonist who is meant to be us, etc. etc. 

I get why they are the most revolutionary and important... but by todays standards, the BEST we have to offer? I really don't think so! 

 

 

FF7 I can clearly see the argument for why its so highly valued as the story it tries to tell with its outdated visuals and gameplay is FANTASTIC and its journey across the world is exhillerating. 

10 was extremely linear and in hindsight, I just can't help but feel its just corridor after corridor until near the end game. 

 

 

 

On FF7's note, given the outdated visuals + gameplay, I'd be so inclined to tell a  modern day video game player to straight up just give it a miss. The story is good but I don't think its good enough to make up for the absolutely clunky visuals, navigation and gameplay. 

 

 

 

ok... I found a post on reddit which summed up my issue well:

 

 

Well, post game content was never the strength of the Legend of Heroes games... But i'm honest, when saying that since i played Trails in the Sky FC 5 or so years ago, i simply cannot play the old SNES JRPGs anymore. It's just that falcoms franchise set the bar for dialogue so high, that playing even something like Chrono Trigger feels like reading a book for 3 year old children. It's not that the stories are so much better, but what Legend of Heroes does so well is giving its world depth through countless lines of NPC dialogue. Instead of getting tutorial phrases or boring exposition the NPCs feel alive and have lifes of their own. When i finished CS2 (just yesterday) i came to the conclusion that my 270h (CS1+2) in the world of Erebonia were so immersive that simply no game in my 23 years of JRPG game came even close. Thats why nowadays i just can't immerse myself in the old 16 bit games anymore... It's not that they're bad... They are monumental masterpieces for the genre. But like technology, the genre itself evolved and while for some people Legend of Heroes may not be the pinnacle, one simply has to aknowledge, that when it comes to writing and world building CT isn't the peak of JRPGs anymore... In fact it isn't for al looong time now.

 

I think this is what ruined suikoden for me. 

Edited by Aaron

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+Urthor    10167

I mean I find the post game to be perfectly fine at 5x frameskip, playing JRPGs without a frameskip injection on PC just isn't fun at all, backtracking galore happens.  

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+rei+    34402

Worth noting that I like Chrono Trigger plenty, I can still think of at least two SNES RPGs that are better than it (one got numbered twice to confuse everyone and the other involves fighting Abortion Mewtwo or something if you listen to fan theories) 

 


Speaking of Chrono Trigger... can u explain why people rate it as the best game available at present? 

 

I get the chrono trigger love but I don't see why its one of the best games of all time.

>> First and foremost, even at the time its hype machine was legendary - "You mean you're getting the guy behind Dragon Quest, the guy behind Final Fantasy, and the guy behind Dragonball together to make a game?" 

 

The dialogue and characterisation is clearly lack lustre compared to any trails game.

>> Games that did not see an english release until 20 years after Chrono Trigger, with no restriction on console memory limiting the text of the english translation. And remember trails didn't have the initial marketing hype of "DBZ+DQ+FF" or an english release. A lot more people know chrono trigger, a lot more people like chrono trigger as a result. 

 

 

The mechanics are great in regards to time travel (revolutionary) but I wouldn't say thats a reason for it to be known as the best game of all time.

>> Absolutely, I think most view it as a 'best JRPG of all time' however, and absolutely nailing a hard-to-nail gameplay mechanic is a real good way to get into that conversation, especially if it's already attached to a very good story. 

 

 

The battle system is good, not amazing. 

>> Yeah I'm with you, I'll take FF-ATB over it any day - but I think it had some crossover appeal with peopel who don't dig simple turnbased/ATB combat because of the positional bend and I think that spread its appeal, which goes back to the "everyone knows it and its better than any other jrpg they've played" 

 

A lot of these old loved RPGs normally have average translations, average dialogue, poor characterisation especially for the protagonist who is meant to be us, etc. etc. 

I get why they are the most revolutionary and important... but by todays standards, the BEST we have to offer? I really don't think so! 

>> And yet we still can't beat FF5's battle gameplay; FF X came closest.  I actually would prefer lack of characterization over a protagonist than run the risk of an unlikeable one (Lookin at you, Squall), but I think the simpler answer here is go more western and have you actually be able to sculpt your characters personality. 

 

 

 

FF7 I can clearly see the argument for why its so highly valued as the story it tries to tell with its outdated visuals and gameplay is FANTASTIC and its journey across the world is exhillerating. 

10 was extremely linear and in hindsight, I just can't help but feel its just corridor after corridor until near the end game. 

>> I'm with you on X, but why I came around is the battle system is just so damn good. Never play FF13. It literally is just corridor after corridor until near the end game, there aren't even shops. lol. I feel FF6 has a better plot to tell than 7. 

 

 

 

 

 

On FF7's note, given the outdated visuals + gameplay, I'd be so inclined to tell a  modern day video game player to straight up just give it a miss. The story is good but I don't think its good enough to make up for the absolutely clunky visuals, navigation and gameplay. 

>> I disagree simply because I think different gamers prioritize visuals differently - FF7 is functionally simple enough on the overworld to just have a retro vibe (like playing... any pokemon game), and the backgrounds are still fucking great. The gameplay is also still really, really good - honestly part of what makes FF7 great is having really accessable but broad gameplay and it just works. I mean, I'm a fan of the series, genre, and playstyle but I mean I only first played through the game entirely two years ago and I sure as hell wasn't suffering... though I played it on my Vita, where there's lower expectation for high end graphics.... so maybe the answer is to recommend it on mobile and handhelds? its out on phones now anyway right? 

 

 

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Aaron    1979
7 hours ago, rei said:

Worth noting that I like Chrono Trigger plenty, I can still think of at least two SNES RPGs that are better than it (one got numbered twice to confuse everyone and the other involves fighting Abortion Mewtwo or something if you listen to fan theories) 

 


Speaking of Chrono Trigger... can u explain why people rate it as the best game available at present? 

 

I get the chrono trigger love but I don't see why its one of the best games of all time.

>> First and foremost, even at the time its hype machine was legendary - "You mean you're getting the guy behind Dragon Quest, the guy behind Final Fantasy, and the guy behind Dragonball together to make a game?" 

 

The dialogue and characterisation is clearly lack lustre compared to any trails game.

>> Games that did not see an english release until 20 years after Chrono Trigger, with no restriction on console memory limiting the text of the english translation. And remember trails didn't have the initial marketing hype of "DBZ+DQ+FF" or an english release. A lot more people know chrono trigger, a lot more people like chrono trigger as a result. 

 

 

The mechanics are great in regards to time travel (revolutionary) but I wouldn't say thats a reason for it to be known as the best game of all time.

>> Absolutely, I think most view it as a 'best JRPG of all time' however, and absolutely nailing a hard-to-nail gameplay mechanic is a real good way to get into that conversation, especially if it's already attached to a very good story. 

 

 

The battle system is good, not amazing. 

>> Yeah I'm with you, I'll take FF-ATB over it any day - but I think it had some crossover appeal with peopel who don't dig simple turnbased/ATB combat because of the positional bend and I think that spread its appeal, which goes back to the "everyone knows it and its better than any other jrpg they've played" 

 

A lot of these old loved RPGs normally have average translations, average dialogue, poor characterisation especially for the protagonist who is meant to be us, etc. etc. 

I get why they are the most revolutionary and important... but by todays standards, the BEST we have to offer? I really don't think so! 

>> And yet we still can't beat FF5's battle gameplay; FF X came closest.  I actually would prefer lack of characterization over a protagonist than run the risk of an unlikeable one (Lookin at you, Squall), but I think the simpler answer here is go more western and have you actually be able to sculpt your characters personality. 

 

 

 

FF7 I can clearly see the argument for why its so highly valued as the story it tries to tell with its outdated visuals and gameplay is FANTASTIC and its journey across the world is exhillerating. 

10 was extremely linear and in hindsight, I just can't help but feel its just corridor after corridor until near the end game. 

>> I'm with you on X, but why I came around is the battle system is just so damn good. Never play FF13. It literally is just corridor after corridor until near the end game, there aren't even shops. lol. I feel FF6 has a better plot to tell than 7. 

 

 

 

Quote

 

 

 

On FF7's note, given the outdated visuals + gameplay, I'd be so inclined to tell a  modern day video game player to straight up just give it a miss. The story is good but I don't think its good enough to make up for the absolutely clunky visuals, navigation and gameplay. 

>> I disagree simply because I think different gamers prioritize visuals differently - FF7 is functionally simple enough on the overworld to just have a retro vibe (like playing... any pokemon game), and the backgrounds are still fucking great. The gameplay is also still really, really good - honestly part of what makes FF7 great is having really accessable but broad gameplay and it just works. I mean, I'm a fan of the series, genre, and playstyle but I mean I only first played through the game entirely two years ago and I sure as hell wasn't suffering... though I played it on my Vita, where there's lower expectation for high end graphics.... so maybe the answer is to recommend it on mobile and handhelds? its out on phones now anyway right? 

 

 

 

Sadly I think you've pretty much summed up what I think chrono trigger is; hype + a good game w/nostalgia = overrating a game to hell and back. 

 

FYI im really not fond of western rpgs at all. Their character sculpting is terrible bar the witcher (sorry but i find fallouts character design so so so so so so horrible) 

 

FF7 re: outdated visuals, I can live with shitty visuals. I cannot live with poor gameplay which I feel FF7 does suffer from due to its poor presentation and visuals. I remember the part in the game in a church and navigating around it was a pain in the ass, pretty much just not enjoyable. I'd much rather have more FF6 style presentation than what FF7 does. I played FF7 on PC with graphics mods and although I enjoyed it, the very rough gameplay (and visuals) led to me not enjoying it as much as more top tier titles. I remember the motor cycle sequence and felt it was... painful. It reminds me of Mario Odyssey and the dinosaur in it... like this just doesn't work, it doesnt look right, why have you put this in there? 

 

 

Maybe I'm just a trails fanboy but I really think it blows them out of the water in multiple departments; its main drawback being the time investment required for the ball to get rolling and the heavy dialogue. 

Edited by Aaron

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+Urthor    10167

Update, finished Trails of Cold Steel 1, Trails in the Sky 1 & 2.  Falcom>>>Square/Atlus definitely my favourite series of JRPGs ever still.  However Cold Steel is garbage on KBM, it's a controller only game IMO and that UI detracts from it.  Currently playing Tokyo Xanadu slowly and I'll play the YS VIII port when it comes out, Tokyo Xanadu isn't that great a game but the combat system is different which is good because I'm way too burnt out on Trails combat to go back to Trails in the Sky 3 atm.

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