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The Antagonist

Star Wars Episode VIII - The Last Jedi

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HououinKyouma    801

I didn't care about any of the fanboy garbage and still disliked the film, but it's a pretty lame cop out to harp on those specific criticisms of the film.

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BuildTheWalia    197

I liked this.

 

These new films are both good and bad, as opposed to the originals (mostly good) and the prequels (mostly bad).

 

It wasn't what it could've been, but it definitely is a good addition to the story.

 

I have high hopes for the last one. Abrams should be the only director for it, and if Disney takes only a glance at feedback from the first two I think we might have a real gem.

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Finally watched it today. Movie was fun to watch but was a narrative disaster. I don't think it'll hold up well. Worth the price of admission for the jokes (there isn't a BB-8 joke I haven't liked) and some amazing visuals (and Adam Driver, his acting was excellent despite the movie being kind of a clusterfuck, might count under visuals too ;)) and tight action, but I'm not going to see it again any time soon without a good reason. Much better than Jurassic World, if that helps set a benchmark. Hard to call it good, but wasn't offensively bad despite my like for the original trilogy and dislike for the prequels. My buddy who is deep deep into SW and always has been believes SW is over, agreeing with Red Letter Media's conclusion that continuation of the franchise is Disney humping a reanimated corpse. I feel like a big plot point was better suited to a show like Battlestar Galactica, but there are so many plots you can forget about it most of the time. Hell, you can forget about most of the characters most of the time.

(complete non sequitur: Watching the trailer for the JW sequel was shocking, as even the basic premise is completely retarded in-universe--weirdly it might be a better movie than the first JW if you pretend you didn't see JW and don't know what Jurassic Park is. This is talking about a franchise in which genetically engineered dinosaur clones kill everyone because the company running the dinosaur zoo was incompetent. It wants to be TLW but with less ecoterrorism (god I hate that movie, the hunters and mercs were the heroes), which is a good thing).

Back to SW 8: I agree with most of the criticisms you're gonna hear or have heard regarding TLJ as a SW movie, TLJ as the sequel to TFA, and TLJ as a standalone movie. I understand why superfans would be pissed, why general audiences wouldn't care, and why film critics would have mixed feelings leaning towards the negative. It's kind of like every other unwanted Disney sequel, lol. You can find a compilation of Mark Hamill's comments on the movie on YouTube and it's pretty damn funny.

Overall it was better than I expected. If you expected it to answer many of the questions raised in TFA, don't.

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HououinKyouma    801
11 hours ago, Human Tetherball said:

film critics would have mixed feelings leaning towards the negative

48/50 top critics rated it fresh. Even then, there's a lot of critics saying that it's better than the ot.

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On 12/30/2017 at 4:07 PM, HououinKyouma said:

48/50 top critics rated it fresh. Even then, there's a lot of critics saying that it's better than the ot.

Eh, I overestimate people a lot. Between the binary choice of rotten or fresh, sure, I'd rate it fresh. It's not good and it's not better than the OT, though. I feel like people who don't know how to watch movies say that. A lot of movies they rate rotten are fine.

I hate that because it's a Star Wars movie I'm going to be having these conversations many many many more times throughout my life. Just like how the prequels suck. Kind of like Harry Potter, my feelings will end up being READ ANOTHER BOOK.

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HououinKyouma    801
18 minutes ago, Human Tetherball said:

Eh, I overestimate people a lot. Between the binary choice of rotten or fresh, sure, I'd rate it fresh. It's not good and it's not better than the OT, though. I feel like people who don't know how to watch movies say that. A lot of movies they rate rotten are fine.

I hate that because it's a Star Wars movie I'm going to be having these conversations many many many more times throughout my life. Just like how the prequels suck. Kind of like Harry Potter, my feelings will end up being READ ANOTHER BOOK.

Although I agree rt is extremely flawed, there are a lot of critics I regularly read and agree with that say this is one of the best sw movies.

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+rei+    34494

taking Mark's quotes out of context is p dum too 

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NB96    830

Just saw this. Wow, it was awful.

Can somebody tell me why Finn and the Chinese girl went on that whole journey again? The whole thing could have been avoided if the lady with the purple had just assured the rebels that she did indeed have a plan. Not to mention their journey was totally pointless and ended in failure. Also, Snoke's death was extremely anticlimactic. I kept thinking he would reappear because I couldn't believe they would just kill him like that.

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+rei+    34494

The entire point was sometimes failure is important and a meaningful lesson, i have no idea how that was lost on you, it's arguably the core theme of the entire film 

 

Random air force scrubs are not entitled to classified information especially when there may be a leak

 

That death was awesome and i don't get why you're upset about it. 

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+rei+    34494

Just saw this, wow it was awful

 

an somebody tell me why Han and the Leia went on that whole journey again? The whole thing could have been avoided if they just scanned for astroid worms, or fixed the stupid hyperdrive. Not to mention their journey was totally pointless and ended in Han frozen in a block.

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NB96    830
1 hour ago, rei said:

The entire point was sometimes failure is important and a meaningful lesson, i have no idea how that was lost on you, it's arguably the core theme of the entire film 

 

Random air force scrubs are not entitled to classified information especially when there may be a leak

 

That death was awesome and i don't get why you're upset about it. 

Is not classified information to say "trust me, I really do have a plan". You don't have to tell the rebels if you don't want, but that character basically just comes across as having no plan other than to delay the inevitable.

 

Film was awful.

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NB96    830
Posted (edited)
 

I might not have been paying attention on this part but how come the big ship was able to shoot the small ones running away towards the end, even though they were further away than the main rebel ship that was keeping out of range of their cannons for most of the film?

 

Also, good luck to JJ Abrams for Episode IX. Your main villain is now Kylo Ren who is basically sidekick material. At least it can't be as bas as Lex Luthor or Steppenwolf so you have that going for you.

Edited by NB96

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+rei+    34494

if you're concerned about Kylo's credibility as a villain in that context you straight up don't understand the film or the conflict being built up. 

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NB96    830
Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, rei said:

if you're concerned about Kylo's credibility as a villain in that context you straight up don't understand the film or the conflict being built up. 

I think I understand it well enough. He bashes things in both films because of his internal conflict of good vs evil, hates Luke for spoiler reasons, guilt of killing Han vs letting the past die etc. Still came across in both films as the sidekick rather than the real big bad to me.

 

I thought the scenes with Rey and Kylo, and with Luke and Rey were more compelling than Finn and the girl whose name I forgot. If they cut that terrible side story and devoted more time to the above I would have enjoyed it more.

Edited by NB96

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Faint    5710
39 minutes ago, NB96 said:

I think I understand it well enough. He bashes things in both films because of his internal conflict of good vs evil, hates Luke for spoiler reasons, guilt of killing Han vs letting the past die etc. Still came across in both films as the sidekick rather than the real big bad to me.

 

I thought the scenes with Rey and Kylo, and with Luke and Rey were more compelling than Finn and the girl whose name I forgot. If they cut that terrible side story and devoted more time to the above I would have enjoyed it more.

You enjoyed BvS, but hate this?

 

I mean jesus fucking christ

 

You are very wrong and kylo is going to be amazing. 

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NB96    830
Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Faint said:

You enjoyed BvS, but hate this?

 

I mean jesus fucking christ

 

You are very wrong and kylo is going to be amazing. 

Both films weren't great. I gave BvS a 7/10 on first viewing and dropped to a 6 on the second. TLJ gets 5, which for me is pretty bad because I am often generous to films (eg. giving Spider-Man a 7).

 

It goes without saying but neither matches up to Dunkirk. Then again, I was naïve to go into this and Justice League thinking they could. Starting to burn out on these types of films now anyway.

Edited by NB96

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NB96    830
Posted (edited)

Really I think part of the problem is also having different directors for the films with what are seemingly different visions for how this new tale should go. They are getting JJ Abrams back for 9 afaik but now he has to work with what Rian Johnson went for and I can't help but feel based on how TFA set things up that Abrams Episode 8 would have been taken in a different direction. Now he has to work with the setup given by this film instead.

Edited by NB96

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Mascis    4478

THey did that foreshadowing stuff in 7 without knowing where they were going 

 

they gave both the writing and directing to one guy instead of a team of writers

 

The guy had a vision but it was kinda a mess. At least he did a ton of un-“Star Wars” shit. That’s pretty bold and cool. 

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Mascis    4478

I think NB’a problem with the movie is a bit misguided tho. Like yeah they are supposed to learn through failure that’s the obvious message here. However where they get by failing kinda leaves me not really giving a shit what happens to them. 

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HououinKyouma    801
13 minutes ago, Mascis said:

The guy had a vision but it was kinda a mess. At least he did a ton of un-“Star Wars” shit. That’s pretty bold and cool. 

I think this is what divided opinion on this film. If you bought into the "new" direction you'd like it, if you didn't then you don't. Sadly I think a lot of people just assume that all people that disliked it were sw fanboys that felt like it wasn't "their sw," when there are people that just thought that it was ok that they tried something new but thought that what was "new" wasn't actually that cool or exciting.

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+rei+    34494

the issue with his critique of kylo

 



is that he's not supposed to be a "lol lawful evil villain" his instability is what makes things interesting for the future

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Faint    5710
7 hours ago, NB96 said:

Both films weren't great. I gave BvS a 7/10 on first viewing and dropped to a 6 on the second. TLJ gets 5, which for me is pretty bad because I am often generous to films (eg. giving Spider-Man a 7).

 

It goes without saying but neither matches up to Dunkirk. Then again, I was naïve to go into this and Justice League thinking they could. Starting to burn out on these types of films now anyway.

Spider man was like a 9, BvS was about a 2, this was like 9

 

Get better at opinions

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NB96    830
Posted (edited)
 

Also hilarious that they killed Snoke without us learning anything about him at all. Why build him up as a powerful dark side user and manipulator just to suddenly do that? many fans seem to think they treated Luke badly since he wouldn't ever consider hurting a child in the first place, even if he did resist the temptation. I also felt they had a chance to treat Captain Phasma better only to fail completely on that aspect. Two characters (arguably three depending on how you feel about Luke) that were treated very badly in my opinion. People were hyped for Phasma because of her cool costume but she wasn't even a plot device in TLJ, just fodder for Finn to meet the fight scene quota.


Also, re:

20 hours ago, rei said:

The entire point was sometimes failure is important and a meaningful lesson, i have no idea how that was lost on you, it's arguably the core theme of the entire film 

 

I felt the Casino sub-plot (which felt like it lasted forever, at least 30 minutes possibly 45 idk) was terrible and with no payoff since it failed and was also unnecessary in the first place. I understand the point of how the plan doesn't always work, but why not spend that 45 minutes on developing further the relationship between Rey and Kylo Ren, between Rey and Luke Skywalker, and even Kylo Ren and Snoke instead of a sub-plot that goes nowhere? These were the most compelling parts of the film to me. I know people like to explore different planets in Star Wars, but I think that the scenes between the above characters were more interesting, I would have preferred to stay in that throne room with Snoke or on the island with Luke for longer. I really didn't enjoy that casino part and was desperate to get back to Luke or the throne room every time they cut to the Finn and the girl.

Edited by NB96

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+The Antagonist    1706
11 hours ago, Faint said:

Spider man was like a 9, BvS was about a 2, this was like 9

 

Get better at opinions

"Stop liking what I don't like"

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+rei+    34494

i think my fundamental disagreement is a failure or betrayal is a payoff 

 

(... and i still think the casino / dinosaur race / rose explains to child soldier some kids have it rough was the worst part of the movie along with the prank call) 

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