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helpoemer07

Chance to Respond and Open Game States

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helpoemer07    0

Hi guys,

 

Just wondering what ruling applies when a card like Suanni, Fire of the Yang Zing gets summoned on the field. Will the "opponent" be able to immediately activate its effect right after it is summoned? Or will it be an open gamestate first? If so, will the turn player be given priority to activate say a spell speed 1 card before Suanni can chain?

 

Thanks.

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Mr Dragon    299

If the summon is successful, the first thing that happens is the turn player has the ability to activate any speed spell 2 or higher effects if s/he wishes to. Then the non-turn player may do the same. After the resulting chain (if any) resolves, there is then an open game state.

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»Pharaoh Atem    15757

not quite.

there's a flowchart for this.

the event in question - the summon of a Suanni - can occur in an open gamestate or a closed gamestate, depending on exactly what you're doing and when.

presuming you Normal Summon it or Pendulum Summon it w/o a card telling you when to conduct the Summon, this'd start us in box A of the flowchart

presuming otherwise, we're starting in box D

both of those boxes eventually lead to the yellow box on the flowchart, which asks about players' triggered effects

those always get activated before either player has the right to activate any non-triggered spell speed 2/3 things

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ニック    14
On 2/1/2018 at 9:42 AM, Pharaoh Atem said:

not quite.

I think you meant not at all Mister Pharaoh

Speaking of the flowchart: T-Flowchart_EN-US.jpg

On 1/15/2018 at 4:17 PM, Mr Dragon said:

If the summon is successful, the first thing that happens is the turn player has the ability to activate any speed spell 2 or higher effects if s/he wishes to. Then the non-turn player may do the same. After the resulting chain (if any) resolves, there is then an open game state.

Last time I checked, I am pretty sure my opponent can activate Torrential Tribute/Bottomless Trap Hole/Etc to my summon, before I can because it's a closed game state.

An open state is when the turn player can do spell speed 1+ actions before the opponent can do anything.

Such was the case with Rescue Rabbit dodging effect veiler if it was present prior m1, and you enter m1.

Edited by ニック
Edited for clarity

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Mr Dragon    299
17 hours ago, ニック said:

I think you meant not at all Mister Pharaoh

Speaking of the flowchart: T-Flowchart_EN-US.jpg

Last time I checked, I am pretty sure my opponent can activate Torrential Tribute/Bottomless Trap Hole/Etc to my summon, before I can because it's a closed game state.

An open state is when the turn player can do spell speed 1+ actions before the opponent can do anything.

Such was the case with Rescue Rabbit dodging effect veiler if it was present prior m1, and you enter m1.

Actually you're exactly wrong. If you normal summon a monster, it doesn't start a chain. If it doesn't start a trigger effect, then you're in box B, so you can activate any speed spell 2 or higher effect before your opponent can (Box C). It literally says things work like I said they do on the flow chart.

 

For example, if you summon Denko Sekka while you have 1 set, if the summon isn't negated, you get the first opportunity to respond to the summon. So you can flip your one set in response to Denko's summon, putting Denko Sekka's continuous effect into play.


Rabbit being able to "dodge" Veiler is because the turn player is given the first opportunity to activate a card effect in a new phase (Box A) so you activate Rabbit (moving from box A, to box D) and now since Rabbit isn't on the field the opponent cannot respond to it with Veiler.

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ニック    14
13 hours ago, Mr Dragon said:

Actually you're exactly wrong. If you normal summon a monster, it doesn't start a chain. If it doesn't start a trigger effect, then you're in box B, so you can activate any speed spell 2 or higher effect before your opponent can (Box C). It literally says things work like I said they do on the flow chart.

 

For example, if you summon Denko Sekka while you have 1 set, if the summon isn't negated, you get the first opportunity to respond to the summon. So you can flip your one set in response to Denko's summon, putting Denko Sekka's continuous effect into play.


Rabbit being able to "dodge" Veiler is because the turn player is given the first opportunity to activate a card effect in a new phase (Box A) so you activate Rabbit (moving from box A, to box D) and now since Rabbit isn't on the field the opponent cannot respond to it with Veiler.

I never said Atem was wrong? This isn't a "you are wrong Atem, this is the correct way", this is "you meant not at all, not "not quite" reply.

However I have NOT had that situation come up, and the Judges I correct at locals I correct using said chart.

Such as when I told A that entering main 1, open state I can set tenacity of the monarchs, before my opponent psy-framelord omega in response, so I know about up to that part, didn't realize it had a way to let the player respond before the opponent to an action of any kind, so good to know.

 

 

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