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persona 5 mafia aftergame

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slickz    4304
59 minutes ago, confuse rei said:

My game was fine. You slick and jazz suspect better players every single game, it has nothing to do with how we play.

You didn’t project town enough (see PSK’s play) and malcolm generally did scummy things this game like pocket+dodge+out mascis+tie at eod+ bitch about being called scum. 

 

don’t act like you guys aren’t prone to slipping up here and there. 

 

ftr I thought you played fine and better than the other half of the game at least, should have given you a chance to defend yourself, etc.

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Wunterslaus    223
1 hour ago, Malcolm's Multi said:

I barely dodged your terrible questions. I would point out mascis as town or scum. I’m sorry I think on a much higher plane

 

Paranoid players suspect me in every single game I play and it is always the same ones that do it. This happens to ash and it happens to stefanos as well. I don’t have the luxury of being townread for playing like a psychotic moron like some players do. 

Most games I wait until I have a good feeling about you to decide but you just felt off from the start. Most of my early reads are gutreads. This just wasn't your best game

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+Sophocles    3074

You can't just say 'you didn't play well because I gutread you as scum'. That means nothing without actual follow up.

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Jazz    5322
2 hours ago, Malcolm's Multi said:

I also don’t believe your stream of consciousness diarrhea needs to be addressed at all times either 

 

lol

 

I asked you a simple question and you couldn't answer it

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+Sophocles    3074

that reminds me

 

On 4-8-2018 at 4:01 AM, slickz said:

ya’ll call me distinterested or whatever but you know how hard it is to constantly keep playing,reading, and posting on a weekend when jazz and JC are going on stream of consciousness posting fests?

 

best post in the thread lmaooo

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confuse rei    5608
3 hours ago, Jazz said:

 

1. I don't think it's fair to say we should never lynch someone who is AFK, especially in a no claim game.

 

2. Malcolm rightly deserved suspicion this game for liberally tossing shade, pegging mascis as neutral, and dodging questions. I'm not sure how you ever had him as solid town.

 

3. If the "mafia gods" don't want to be suspected they can project town better. I suspect Malcolm most games because he plays scummy most games. I suspect you most games because your scum game is almost perfect, and the difference between it and your town game is very subtle. What am I supposed to do about that, huh?

 

4. In the future, I'll give additional consideration to handing out day passes (I actually gave one to JC this game), but I still think it's correct to vocally suspect good players when they're not making sense (your mascis defense) or not being fully transparent (malcolm's play).

1. the difference is that I wasnt afk all day, you had 44 hours to voice your concerns, and noone said anything and that's whats foul. If I was afk the whole day then of course it would have been fair game but i was vocal and very active, you just decided to not say anything for most of my game. And its the first lynch of the game, its not lylo where you kill scum of get killed, you had time and days to discuss and argue and analyze. Instead you waste a day talking every single person but me then ignore all that just to go 'lets kill crei lol'. Even if i happened to flip scum you have pretty much admitted that you wasted your whole day by doing so.

 

2. It would have been a fine play to peg mascis as neutral because he is anti town, so you put him as neutral, never lynch him, and scum are forced to waste a nk down the road on him over a pro town player. In fact Malcolm is the only person other than me who got why mascis should never be lynched by town, so what you deem as scummy is actually a very pro town play. I just didnt spell neutral because if I call him town he gets nk'd easier. Malcolm did explain it to you and most people needed like 2-3 days to grasp it.

 

3. The gaia is town/scum paranoia actually helps me as scum. Go back and reread every game im scum and underwood/you is town scumreading me. Ive derailed the game for at least half its life span on walls over walls over walls to still be alive. By the time I do get to die ive mislynched at least a couple townies and made the thread unreadable for town to solve because my teammates are buried in a sea of arguments

 

4. You should vocally suspect, but you didnt do it with me. From suspicion to lynch is a very long way.

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Jazz    5322
25 minutes ago, confuse rei said:

1. the difference is that I wasnt afk all day, you had 44 hours to voice your concerns, and noone said anything and that's whats foul. If I was afk the whole day then of course it would have been fair game but i was vocal and very active, you just decided to not say anything for most of my game. And its the first lynch of the game, its not lylo where you kill scum of get killed, you had time and days to discuss and argue and analyze. Instead you waste a day talking every single person but me then ignore all that just to go 'lets kill crei lol'. Even if i happened to flip scum you have pretty much admitted that you wasted your whole day by doing so.

 

2. It would have been a fine play to peg mascis as neutral because he is anti town, so you put him as neutral, never lynch him, and scum are forced to waste a nk down the road on him over a pro town player. In fact Malcolm is the only person other than me who got why mascis should never be lynched by town, so what you deem as scummy is actually a very pro town play. I just didnt spell neutral because if I call him town he gets nk'd easier. Malcolm did explain it to you and most people needed like 2-3 days to grasp it.

 

3. The gaia is town/scum paranoia actually helps me as scum. Go back and reread every game im scum and underwood/you is town scumreading me. Ive derailed the game for at least half its life span on walls over walls over walls to still be alive. By the time I do get to die ive mislynched at least a couple townies and made the thread unreadable for town to solve because my teammates are buried in a sea of arguments

 

4. You should vocally suspect, but you didnt do it with me. From suspicion to lynch is a very long way.

 

Ehh 44 hours is a stretch considering you basically took the first 24 hours off. I am pretty sure I did voice my concerns but that's beside the point. At the end of that day phase we wanted to abort the silver lynch, we had mascis pegged for neutral, and slick+underwood+I had no other overlapping scum read except for you. It was really a fluke thing and I think you're making it out to be more than it is. It will probably never happen again on this forum.

 

I'm not saying it's bad to peg mascis as neutral. What I'm saying is it looks like perfect info to peg a neutral. He knows the scum team, it makes it that much easier to peg a sketchy non-scum as the neutral.

 

BTW I've played one game where you were scum and it was alignment conversion. Not sure it counts. I've played one other game besides this one where we were both town and I ended up working with you for a phase but you got NK'd (it was a JC game).

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Wunterslaus    223
1 hour ago, Sophocles said:

You can't just say 'you didn't play well because I gutread you as scum'. That means nothing without actual follow up.

If I feel there is something wrong with your posts (and I am right) then there is defenitly a flaw in your game because you don't project town well enough. ZP did the same thing for me. You just played differently because I usually like your D1 when you're town. At least the last couple of games. It was not just because of the votecounts

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+Sophocles    3074
37 minutes ago, Wunterslaus said:

If I feel there is something wrong with your posts (and I am right) then there is defenitly a flaw in your game because you don't project town well enough. ZP did the same thing for me. You just played differently because I usually like your D1 when you're town. At least the last couple of games. It was not just because of the votecounts

Not talking about myself but about what you said to Malcolm.

 

Bolded is the entire problem with what you're saying, if it's only poor play when he's scum then wtf are we even talking about? 

If you're wrong suddenly it's not the townies fault for not projecting town enough?

Gutreads are not relevant basis for critiscism.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, confuse rei said:

My game was fine. You slick and jazz suspect better players every single game, it has nothing to do with how we play but with how you perceive reality. Go back to every single game we've played and find one day 1 where you don't suspect me/Malcolm/rei . Either everyone sucks or...?

 

Plus going 'oh it's minus ev but I'm still going for it!' Is still going for it lol, we have a name for shit' like that and it's called distancing. Stop excusing your lack of logic and take the " I can't let myself get outplayed therefore Gaia is scum" glasses off.

 

 

My lunch was baseless, you just had three people who would always go for me in every game if they are town, forced silver and a scum to boot. You made a huge post that no one could respond at the time of you posting it, formed a train with these people, and then people who are easily influenced (tyranno, Brandis) jumped on the momentum because that's how mafia works when there is only one side to an argument. 

 

Under those circumstances I can kill ANY person in ANY game.

 

That is how I died and not because of an "off game"

Nearly half of town voted you over Silver. 

 

Me trying convince town to kill a better target and me killing you over Silver are not the same thing so strop trying to make it sound like they are. Silver was obv town. You weren't. I made it clear while you were around that I wasn't killing him. 

 

Gaia you punted d1 and didn't take a position on the d1 lynch. You literally voted silver because it would "give info." EVERY LYNCH GIVES FUCKING INFO. It gives info does not tell me jack shit about your motivations and is the equivalent of apathy (which guess what, is scum indicative). 

 

I already apologized for the timing. I have a job and I couldn't really make posts that more than one liners during business hours . I'm not gonna apologize for giving my thoughts on the game or including you in them. You also act like the entire post was focused on you when literally 7 other players were mentioned and you weren;t even at the top of my kill list. 

 

If we are gonna talk about my lack of logic, let's look at yours here  If a good player voted you, its because they fearkilled you. If a bad player voted, you its a bw. When people want to comment about my ego, I'm going to refer them to this. Unsurprisingly, I don't think it would have mattered if all 19 other players voted you as they would have been grouped in one of those two categories. 

 

You have only yourself to blame for your lynch. If you don't punt d1, and projected town second half of d1, you don't get scumread by half the game and don't die. 

Edited by Francis J Underwood
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3 hours ago, confuse rei said:

1. the difference is that I wasnt afk all day, you had 44 hours to voice your concerns, and noone said anything and that's whats foul. If I was afk the whole day then of course it would have been fair game but i was vocal and very active, you just decided to not say anything for most of my game. And its the first lynch of the game, its not lylo where you kill scum of get killed, you had time and days to discuss and argue and analyze. Instead you waste a day talking every single person but me then ignore all that just to go 'lets kill crei lol'. Even if i happened to flip scum you have pretty much admitted that you wasted your whole day by doing so.

 

2. It would have been a fine play to peg mascis as neutral because he is anti town, so you put him as neutral, never lynch him, and scum are forced to waste a nk down the road on him over a pro town player. In fact Malcolm is the only person other than me who got why mascis should never be lynched by town, so what you deem as scummy is actually a very pro town play. I just didnt spell neutral because if I call him town he gets nk'd easier. Malcolm did explain it to you and most people needed like 2-3 days to grasp it.

 

3. The gaia is town/scum paranoia actually helps me as scum. Go back and reread every game im scum and underwood/you is town scumreading me. Ive derailed the game for at least half its life span on walls over walls over walls to still be alive. By the time I do get to die ive mislynched at least a couple townies and made the thread unreadable for town to solve because my teammates are buried in a sea of arguments

 

4. You should vocally suspect, but you didnt do it with me. From suspicion to lynch is a very long way.

1. This was addressed. No one bothered when you had one post for all of 24+ hrs because they figured youd come in and make yourself apparent town. You ramped up your activity, but content-wise I felt your reads and reasons were weak and openly questioned you on some of them (LFN comes to mind) 

 

2. I disagree with a few things here, but to limit myself to the main things: calling him out as neutral was the correct play for town there because scum will be forced to deal with him. Calling him town keeps him alive as mislynch target. I literally said on d1 that I wasn't going to bother with Mascis because if he's neutral, he's scum's probelm. Malcolm's mistake was trying to subtly push town to lynch. 

 

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confuse rei    5608



Gaia you punted d1 and didn't take a position on the d1 lynch. You literally voted silver because it would "give info." EVERY LYNCH GIVES FUCKING INFO.

Go back and reread if you think i didnt take position. The fact that you dont understand it doesnt make it a punt. I explained why mascis shouldnt be killed (and I was right), you deemed it as scummy. I voted soph (and I was right), and it was ignored and you deemed it as scummy to the point where my vote was pointless. I explained why silver gives info (and I was right), and you didnt understand it.

 

No, not every lynch gives info. What info did you get from my lynch? zero. You only get info after silver flips. The same info you would get if you flipped silver in the first place.

 



If we are gonna talk about my lack of logic, let's look at yours here  If a good player voted you, its because they fearkilled you. If a bad player voted, you its a bw.

 

You've played like idk, 100 games here. Go back and try to find like 2 of them where you dont suspect me/malcolm/rei day 1. You wont. I never said I was fearkilled. Im saying i cant take these suspicions seriously because they are there every single game. You dont suspect e.g. zeropassion every single game, you dont suspect anyone else every single game so either:

 

a. rei/malcolm/confuse rei are the worst town players in dgz mafia

b. You are biased and want to be the hero who didnt get outplayed

 

I talked about it with slick privately, I cannot find any other explanation as to why this happens. Even if you happen to be right, its only a statistical thing and not a mafia thing, because im bound to be scum at some point.

 

And yes, in this game, that is exactly how it happened. the votes from slick you and jazz+ scum piled on  then players that are influenced followed up on the momentum. Obviously they would. That is how mafia has worked for like a decade. Had I been around there would be another side to the argument and I would have been aliive because towniness is an objective term and not something that can be measured. You cant see town in me because you are biased and not because of some golden town appearance rule that everyone but me followed.

 

Also you fail to recognize that I was posting without the need to show towniness because there wasnt a voice of concern towards me. Why the fuck would I have to prove myself and to who? I am just posting for my own good to figure out the game, and if someone has any concerns about me i can address them and explain my thought process.

 

You also look the game through your POV and not through mine. You can literally post your role pm, be confirmed town, and still only get NK'd like night 4-5 if me/rei/malcolm are town. Its horrible -ev to make myself confirmed town, it means i literally cannot play the game, I would only make myself 'confirmed' town to your eyes if i felt the lynch is going the wrong way, I have zero reason to do that out of nowhere and for nothing, I just kill myself by doing that.

 

 

You said you got better and you talk like you are some sort of god's gift to mafia. I see the same insecure oblivious to how the game works player i knew when i left. Tone it down and accept your mistakes instead of pointing fingers.

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confuse rei    5608

there is an old train and a new train backed up by everyone who is active in the thread

 

its a tie

 

and you expect someone of the caliber of brandis to go 'im going to go against the momentum and vote silver!'

 

like why the fuck games have you been playing if you think thats a thing, he votes for me 10/10 times here, same with tyranno, it has nothing to do with how me and silver have posted

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+Silver    1008

I would say Slickz, PSK and confuse rei are probably our biggest threats in terms of presenting their arguments and leading town. If they solve the game or catch one of us, I'd say they have a good chance of concinving the rest of town to follow them.

Tyranno and Jazz are relatively good at getting themselves townread, keep an eye out for them.

Solstice, Wunterslaus and Silver could be described as low-hanging fruit: they get lynched a lot, if you present a good case on them town is likely to follow you. (Beware of someone calling you out on going after them / people might be wary of lynching them early on because they're often mislynched)

 

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Brandis72    32

Well, I'm obviously new to this game and all, but it was painfully obvious that silver was town, and lynching an ambiguous player vs lynching town seems like an easy choice... right?

 

...Or was your argument to lynch silver because he's low value to town and the info is worth more than his life?

IDK, still sounds questionable at best from my perspective, although feel free to explain the details.

 

Also D1 I wanted to vote for Mascis (but couldn't because the gamestate only offered two options), and IDK how the hell Malcolm was supposed to prove that he was neutral and not scum; this just makes no sense to me EV-wise (assuming malcolm has no logical proof and is just either playing with hidden info or gutreading) unless malcolm is scum and wants to defend a teammate (... IDR for sure, but malcolm was dubious even at the time so making these kinds of plays *should* make his case for town even worse, right; I mean, what kind of town would just try to highlight what's possibly the scummiest player as a neutral so that people don't lynch him???)

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Faint    5841

crei your death sucked and if id been awake i wouldve fought vs it but from a scum / hindsight perspective you gotta admit it is pretty fucking funny =')

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Jazz    5322

Saying we got no info out of the lynch is wrong.

 

We caught ZP hopping onto it and lynched him the next day.

 

We caught malcolm refusing to make a comment on you.

 

We caught hazmah pretending to care about the game but ignoring the relevant topics toward the end of day.

 

Soph was asleep.

 

And we knew who town!crei wanted dead.

 

Hardly a wasted day. You’re a bit full of yourself.

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Jazz    5322

I also think it’s wrong not to project strong town whenever you roll town. It’s definitely -EV. The only reason not to do it is to muddle the contrast with your scum game to boost your scum game. Or, selfishly, to survive later into the game as town so you can be a hero.

 

Strong town means doctor/watcher can recognize you as town and use their abilities on you more profitably.

 

Strong town means cop/tracker/vigilante can recognize you as town and not waste their abilities on you.

 

Strong town means weaker town players can process the game more easily and make better decisions and project town better themselves.

 

Strong town means you drown out the influence of scum and get more control over the lynch.

 

Strong town means one less person in the mislynch pool and one more NK scum has to make.

 

It is literally your win condition.

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+Sophocles    3074
5 hours ago, Silver said:

I would say Slickz, PSK and confuse rei are probably our biggest threats in terms of presenting their arguments and leading town. If they solve the game or catch one of us, I'd say they have a good chance of concinving the rest of town to follow them.

Tyranno and Jazz are relatively good at getting themselves townread, keep an eye out for them.

Solstice, Wunterslaus and Silver could be described as low-hanging fruit: they get lynched a lot, if you present a good case on them town is likely to follow you. (Beware of someone calling you out on going after them / people might be wary of lynching them early on because they're often mislynched)

 

Whoever's reading this post-game: Yeah, I said it, fuck you

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Malcolm's Multi    1789

I didn’t try to subtly lynch mascis lol. I’m almost 100% sure I said my vote is staying there until I read. 

 

There isnt much sense arguing about a game in which perfect info was on town’s side as opposed to scum having it

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Malcolm's Multi    1789
1 hour ago, Brandis72 said:

Well, I'm obviously new to this game and all, but it was painfully obvious that silver was town, and lynching an ambiguous player vs lynching town seems like an easy choice... right?

 

...Or was your argument to lynch silver because he's low value to town and the info is worth more than his life?

IDK, still sounds questionable at best from my perspective, although feel free to explain the details.

 

Also D1 I wanted to vote for Mascis (but couldn't because the gamestate only offered two options), and IDK how the hell Malcolm was supposed to prove that he was neutral and not scum; this just makes no sense to me EV-wise (assuming malcolm has no logical proof and is just either playing with hidden info or gutreading) unless malcolm is scum and wants to defend a teammate (... IDR for sure, but malcolm was dubious even at the time so making these kinds of plays *should* make his case for town even worse, right; I mean, what kind of town would just try to highlight what's possibly the scummiest player as a neutral so that people don't lynch him???)

 

Because I am God

 

you will learn soon enough

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Faint    5841
6 hours ago, Jazz said:

I also think it’s wrong not to project strong town whenever you roll town. It’s definitely -EV. The only reason not to do it is to muddle the contrast with your scum game to boost your scum game. Or, selfishly, to survive later into the game as town so you can be a hero.

 

Strong town means doctor/watcher can recognize you as town and use their abilities on you more profitably.

 

Strong town means cop/tracker/vigilante can recognize you as town and not waste their abilities on you.

 

Strong town means weaker town players can process the game more easily and make better decisions and project town better themselves.

 

Strong town means you drown out the influence of scum and get more control over the lynch.

 

Strong town means one less person in the mislynch pool and one more NK scum has to make.

 

It is literally your win condition.

i knew i had a shit hot power so i intentionally hid in mediocrity for the first 2 days of this game (which tbf only psk thought was scummy) & it turned out to work, so i'm not sure this is always true :')

 

also youre implying dgz town can be trusted to work cohesively with each other which as we know couldnt be further from the truth lmao

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+Sophocles    3074

if you're a power role it can be in your interest not to project *too* strong of a town game, though that can differ in no claim games

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»PSK    4447
1 hour ago, Faint said:

 so i intentionally hid in mediocrity for the first 2 days

db0.jpg

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