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Aaron

CPU advice

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Aaron    2024
Posted (edited)

Hey guys, 

 

So I'm in a bit of a pickle. 

 

Uses of computer:

1. VR Gaming skyrim fo4 seem to be on the horizon as the most challenging 

2. PC Gaming  at 4k, may do ultrawide one day albiet very unlikely

3. 4k Video editting (stopped doing this because my 4670k sucks dick) 

4. Option to do CEMU/Dolphin

 

I don't really upgrade CPU all that often. Maybe after 4-5 years, therefore I'm not too fond on pondering about which socket will be supported. I know my options are AMD or Intel. AMD offers more cores, Intel offers faster cores and better IPC. Because I like emulation, I figure intel will be better. 

 

 

 

 

I have the following options:

 

1. 9000 series  Its overpriced as fuck in the uk. 9900k is £600. 9700k is £500. 

2. 8086k for £400, 16GB corsair DDR4 3200mhz RAM for £150, Asus mobo w/wifi for £150  + cooler £60 .... total £760ish pounds 

3. 3XS Z370 Overclocked Bundle, Intel Core i7 8700K "Coffee Lake", ASUS PRIME Z370-P, 16GB DDR4, be quiet! Dark Rock 4 £750

4. 3XS Z370 Overclocked Bundle, Intel Core i7 8700K "Coffee Lake", ASUS PRIME Z370-P, 16GB DDR4, Corsair Hydro H100x £720

5. Go AMD with 2700x bundle for around £650

 

Or so I get a 2700x? It'd be around £100 cheaper if that. 

 

I've had better personal experience with intel through the years.. 

Edited by Aaron

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+Urthor    10220

I would absolutely not upgrade your CPU unless you have visible documentary evidence in front of your eyes that a process is bottlenecking on your CPU.  I was just having a discussion about CPU bottlenecks and so far the only 3 major bottlenecks that I have seen so far  in all of video gaming is Total War 2/Civilisation 6 as well as Assassin's creed at 1440p (4k is GPU bottlenecked.)   Depends how much video editing you do I guess.  


 

Interestingly Civ 6 turn timers are actually RAM bottle-necked even for Intel, it's only the framerate during regular play that is CPU bottleneck ed. 

 

If you are going to upgrade like it's difficult because the 9000 series is actually great for video editing when you get down to brass tacks.  It and you would have the perfect use case as a gamer/video editor.  That thread count is worth it.

 

 

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+rei+    34642

real talk you ever gonna OC? 

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Aaron    2024
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Urthor said:

I would absolutely not upgrade your CPU unless you have visible documentary evidence in front of your eyes that a process is bottlenecking on your CPU.  I was just having a discussion about CPU bottlenecks and so far the only 3 major bottlenecks that I have seen so far  in all of video gaming is Total War 2/Civilisation 6 as well as Assassin's creed at 1440p (4k is GPU bottlenecked.)   Depends how much video editing you do I guess.  


 

Interestingly Civ 6 turn timers are actually RAM bottle-necked even for Intel, it's only the framerate during regular play that is CPU bottleneck ed. 

 

If you are going to upgrade like it's difficult because the 9000 series is actually great for video editing when you get down to brass tacks.  It and you would have the perfect use case as a gamer/video editor.  That thread count is worth it.

 

 

 

I'm RAM/CPU bottle necked in Fallout 4 VR and Skyrim VR. 

4670k is showing its age for me and the chip i have really can't OC for shit. 

 

10 hours ago, rei said:

real talk you ever gonna OC? 

Yes I think so this time. 

 

 

 

 

I really really want to believe in AMD. They present the best value and if i was mid-range with a max budget of 250-300, my money would be with them. However I just think that the higher frequency will be more helpful to me than the higher core count for the next 3 years or so. By that time, AMD will have a new socket, and I'll be making a new build if the intel is useless.

 

Edited by Aaron

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+rei+    34642

honestly amd kills it for being a good deal, but all your builds are price-is-no-object so intel kinda fits your use case better. 

 

Ive been saying core count is gonna be more important than clocks for like a decade eventually i'll be right about it ; ) 

 

honestly neither will be useless and i expect wahtever you buy to last more than 3 years 

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Aaron    2024
14 minutes ago, rei said:

honestly amd kills it for being a good deal, but all your builds are price-is-no-object so intel kinda fits your use case better. 

 

Ive been saying core count is gonna be more important than clocks for like a decade eventually i'll be right about it ; ) 

 

honestly neither will be useless and i expect wahtever you buy to last more than 3 years 

 

 

hhahah rei! i've read that so much! i think now intel are focussing on core counts too rather than sheer clock speed, we will proabably see a shift but nothing darastic to make the intel 8 series cpus obsolete.

 

so is the 8096k an ok bet?  im not which whether to get a z370 mob or z390. the z390 seem to carry a £60 premimum... and i dont have faith at all intel will provide me an upgrade path worth investing into the mobo for. thoughts? 

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+rei+    34642

im having trouble getting conclusive evidence but sounds like z390 is needed for ocing the 8 and 9 series 

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Aaron    2024

If I go down the AMD route rei, would you suggest a 2700x? 

 

Ryzen refresh on 7nm is making me think grabbing a 2600/2700 as a stop gap wouldnt be a bad idea... but then how different will that be clock speed wise to my 4670k which is a bottle neck at present for vr. 

Edited by Aaron

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+rei+    34642

yeah go for it 

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Aaron    2024
5 hours ago, rei said:

yeah go for it 

 

 

Hmmm.. damn rei.. So 2700x or 8096k? 

 

8096k is £390

2700x is £290

 

I think I can get by with a stock cooler for the 2700x possibly? 

 

 

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+rei+    34642

the stock cooler that comes with ryzen chips is VERY good 

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Aaron    2024
26 minutes ago, rei said:

the stock cooler that comes with ryzen chips is VERY good 

I've heard that too. Ideally I'd probably like to OC the ryzen at some point.

 

Do you think Ryzen 7nm will improve the core frequency rei? 

 

If I take out the £100 premium for the 8086k, the £80-90 for the noctua D-14 cooler.. the Ryzen setup looks ecomically okish. 

 

Thats about £180 I can actually put towards a Ryzen 2 CPU I guess... 

 

Its just the 1% lows of the Ryzen chips worry me. 

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+rei+    34642

so stock ryzen cooler is about equiv to a CM D92 - you can def go better for ryzen (whatever the 212 replacement is should be cheap and awesome - i dont think spending 90 on the D-14 is really worth it - at that price you could prob get an H80i AIO system and it'd be cheaper and better


http://www.frostytech.com/top5heatsinks.cfm  ) 

 

shrinking nm's main advantage is temps, which can but does not always lead to higher clocks. 

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+Urthor    10220
13 hours ago, Aaron said:

I've heard that too. Ideally I'd probably like to OC the ryzen at some point.

 

Do you think Ryzen 7nm will improve the core frequency rei? 

 

If I take out the £100 premium for the 8086k, the £80-90 for the noctua D-14 cooler.. the Ryzen setup looks ecomically okish. 

 

Thats about £180 I can actually put towards a Ryzen 2 CPU I guess... 

 

Its just the 1% lows of the Ryzen chips worry me. 

 

My understanding from following the silicon chat is that based off the Iphone's core, hopes for massive IPC gains on TSMC 7nm are not going to eventuate, probably incremental 4.4/4.5 not "omg 5.5" coming through.  And those chips are not expected for ages.  

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Aaron    2024
On 10/12/2018 at 9:37 AM, Urthor said:

 

My understanding from following the silicon chat is that based off the Iphone's core, hopes for massive IPC gains on TSMC 7nm are not going to eventuate, probably incremental 4.4/4.5 not "omg 5.5" coming through.  And those chips are not expected for ages.  

Damn.

 

In the UK we have a terrible shortage of intel processors at a decent price.

Amazon were offering the 8086k at £380 but they're OOS. Said it'll be in within 2 weeks.. I hope.

My other option is the Ryzen 2700x for £290 and I'll get a cooler with it. 

 

My main issue is the 8700k on benches does seem to edge the 2700x at 4k by around 1-5fps in certain titles. Thats actually quite a big deal as my RTX 2080 is just about hitting 60fps. arrrrgh. 

 

 

Any advice with water cooling? There is a company here offering a pre-made 8700k + 16GB RAM but it uses a water cooler. I've always thought they are a bit risky given I move my rig about loads and I thought it might leak or some shit like that. Is it just as simple to setup or more difficult? 

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+Urthor    10220

The world has a shortage of Intel processors but that will be alleviated next year when AMD Rome comes out.  Reason for the shortage is that AWS Azur Google Alibaba are spending a ridiculously retarded amount of money on servers it's a joke.  

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+Urthor    10220

Can that even fit inside your case?

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Aaron    2024
16 hours ago, Urthor said:

Can that even fit inside your case?

 

 

Idk.

 

I have a fractal case so I assume so its quite big.

 

Anyway I decided to buy the 8086k anyway. I got it for £380. Then Amazon got back in stock 8700k for £350 but its been dispatched now so fuck it.

 

 

Can someone please reccomend me a Z390 motherboard I can buy with RAM?

RAM really confuses me. If I want to potentially overclock my RAM, what do I need to do? What motherboard do I need and what RAM? Its all a bit of a mystery to me. 

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+rei+    34642

dont bother with ram overclocking the returns are so fucking negligable (but its tied to the chipset so any z390 would be fine)

really any z390 mobo will suit your needs just make sure it has all the slots you plan on using

 

 

back to watercooelrs - what i specifically reccomend is getting one thats just for the CPU thats a closed loop so it never leaks and fucks you over, Corsair and Cooler Master both make good ones - a dual fan one will be more than you ever need, and a single fan one is still good for decent overclocks 

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+rei+    34642

and by dual fan i mean dual fan width not has two fans sorry

(i have one thats single fan slot, two fans, which is also great but not as good as being as wide as two fan slots)

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Aaron    2024
5 minutes ago, rei said:

dont bother with ram overclocking the returns are so fucking negligable (but its tied to the chipset so any z390 would be fine)

really any z390 mobo will suit your needs just make sure it has all the slots you plan on using

 

 

back to watercooelrs - what i specifically reccomend is getting one thats just for the CPU thats a closed loop so it never leaks and fucks you over, Corsair and Cooler Master both make good ones - a dual fan one will be more than you ever need, and a single fan one is still good for decent overclocks 

 

Thanks rei. I think I might just buy an air cooler like the dark rock pro 4 maybe? 

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Aaron    2024
9 minutes ago, rei said:

dont bother with ram overclocking the returns are so fucking negligable (but its tied to the chipset so any z390 would be fine)

really any z390 mobo will suit your needs just make sure it has all the slots you plan on using

 

 

back to watercooelrs - what i specifically reccomend is getting one thats just for the CPU thats a closed loop so it never leaks and fucks you over, Corsair and Cooler Master both make good ones - a dual fan one will be more than you ever need, and a single fan one is still good for decent overclocks 

Also rei could you explain to me RAM?

 

I'm not sure which RAM to buy. Is it worth me buying 3600mhz RAM or just 3200 mhz? 

 

 

 

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+rei+    34642

ram:
faster is better; but is so negligable you almost never notice slow vs fast ram

more is always a better performance value than faster in every use case ever if the pricing lines up

 

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Aaron    2024
1 hour ago, rei said:

ram:
faster is better; but is so negligable you almost never notice slow vs fast ram

more is always a better performance value than faster in every use case ever if the pricing lines up

 

hey rei

 

i mean getting cl14 3200hz ram over say cl16

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