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Death Note Aftergame

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+rei+    34993
5 hours ago, fuckfiend said:

lvp rei for no player number 4. there should've been 9 players wtf!!!!!

A ninth player never signed up. 

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+rei+    34993
5 hours ago, The Lyncher said:

Again go ask rei. He pointed it out in discord

what 

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Solstice    408

Something else I wanted to bring up after reading the discord...

 

Scum were not given any safe claims.  It was the very first thing I asked for in the chat, but we didn't get any kind of response until over a day later.  (MBA must have asked rei through some other method because he later said rei told us we could use Near and Mello.) If town had decided to go for a mass flavor solve day 1 we probably would have been outed immediately.  I agree with Francis's discord comment that there should be a rule that flavor games either must provided safe claims for scum or exclude flavor claiming altogether, though I have a strong preference for the latter as I'm about to explain.

 

Even if we had gotten fake claims to start with, Diana got a free pass to never getting lynched once she claimed L (watcher honestly matters less as it's easier to fake in a closed setup) and nobody CCed.  It's like someone claiming Naruto in a Naruto themed mafia game; even if they claimed VT they're still not getting lynched because nobody makes the protagonist a safeclaim.  Certain flavor claims by themselves are just too strong and essentially act as an inno child, and scum are never given anything to balance around this.  Flavor claiming should just be banned outright.

 

Even what people are given as "safe claims" usually come with their own set of problems, which is a major reason I chose not to go with the Mello claim.  For one thing it was stated in the signups the game would have spoilers up until episode 26, but checking the wiki episode 26 is where Near and Mello make their first appearance which already makes their believability questionable at best.  And from what I could gather reading the wiki their characters are so closely tied that it wouldn't make sense to have one in the game without the other, so if one of us claimed and flipped the safe claim the other used is immediately called into scrutiny.  Also Mello just seemed like an evil character to the point where I'd question he'd be town even as a standalone claim, but of course I haven't watched the show so it's possible I'm misinterpreting things.  

 

TLDR; Having flavor in games is cool and makes things interesting, but being able to claim flavor shouldn't be allowed because it tips the balance to favor town and hurts scum.

 

Edited by Solstice
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11 hours ago, Di4na said:

Where did they have a chance to hammer anyone?

 

10 hours ago, my bloody arcanine said:

We didnt. You should just ignore tbh

 

And nice play Diana

 

6 hours ago, The Lyncher said:

Again go ask rei. He pointed it out in discord

Edited by The Lyncher

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+rei+    34993

that was based on the RNG no lynch not an opportunity to hammer 

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+Sophocles    3325
2 hours ago, Solstice said:

Something else I wanted to bring up after reading the discord...

 

Scum were not given any safe claims.  It was the very first thing I asked for in the chat, but we didn't get any kind of response until over a day later.  (MBA must have asked rei through some other method because he later said rei told us we could use Near and Mello.) If town had decided to go for a mass flavor solve day 1 we probably would have been outed immediately.  I agree with Francis's discord comment that there should be a rule that flavor games either must provided safe claims for scum or exclude flavor claiming altogether, though I have a strong preference for the latter as I'm about to explain.

 

Even if we had gotten fake claims to start with, Diana got a free pass to never getting lynched once she claimed L (watcher honestly matters less as it's easier to fake in a closed setup) and nobody CCed.  It's like someone claiming Naruto in a Naruto themed mafia game; even if they claimed VT they're still not getting lynched because nobody makes the protagonist a safeclaim.  Certain flavor claims by themselves are just too strong and essentially act as an inno child, and scum are never given anything to balance around this.  Flavor claiming should just be banned outright.

 

Even what people are given as "safe claims" usually come with their own set of problems, which is a major reason I chose not to go with the Mello claim.  For one thing it was stated in the signups the game would have spoilers up until episode 26, but checking the wiki episode 26 is where Near and Mello make their first appearance which already makes their believability questionable at best.  And from what I could gather reading the wiki their characters are so closely tied that it wouldn't make sense to have one in the game without the other, so if one of us claimed and flipped the safe claim the other used is immediately called into scrutiny.  Also Mello just seemed like an evil character to the point where I'd question he'd be town even as a standalone claim, but of course I haven't watched the show so it's possible I'm misinterpreting things.  

 

TLDR; Having flavor in games is cool and makes things interesting, but being able to claim flavor shouldn't be allowed because it tips the balance to favor town and hurts scum.

 

if you allow flavor claims you should figure that certain roles may work out that way and adjust for it, yes. not all flavor claiming is bad

kinda doubt diana's flavor was more important than claiming one of, what was it, two power roles in the game, though

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Di4na    71
49 minutes ago, Sophocles said:

if you allow flavor claims you should figure that certain roles may work out that way and adjust for it, yes. not all flavor claiming is bad

kinda doubt diana's flavor was more important than claiming one of, what was it, two power roles in the game, though

flavor solving either instantly ends the game or does absolutely nothing. it should never be possible for the former to be the case.

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1 minute ago, Di4na said:

flavor solving either instantly ends the game or does absolutely nothing. it should never be possible for the former to be the case.

Thats not the reason you ban it.


Main reason it should be banned is because its effectively ogi. You arent good or playing the game by flavor solving. You are trying to subvert playing the game in the hopes of abusing some loophole in the game, which is a particularly shitty thing to do when the mod included flavor to increase enjoyment.
 

Same deal when players attempt to solve with the twatlogic that X wouldn't design a game that way. 
 

 

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Solstice    408
2 hours ago, Sophocles said:

if you allow flavor claims you should figure that certain roles may work out that way and adjust for it, yes. not all flavor claiming is bad

kinda doubt diana's flavor was more important than claiming one of, what was it, two power roles in the game, though

It was more of a site wide comment than being limited to this specific game.  When I was scum in J.C.'s D&D mafia we weren't given safeclaims either as the game was originally designed with no-claim in mind, so when that got changed and safeclaims were needed I felt the ones we ended up getting were kind of lackluster.  The "safe" claims were stuff like medium, "force a lynch between yourself or another player", Judas, etc. that would either be bastard (Judas) or easily disproven.  For example "answer this question that only dead player would know" as medium which we couldn't actually ask or "force the lynch between you and X player to prove your role" which is obviously something we couldn't actually do.  The point was more that:

 

1. Full claiming with no safeclaims in a flavor game screws scum over

2. Safe claims are hard to craft appropriately and it's hard to balance around claiming correctly

3. Given the above, I personally believe it's better to ban flavor claiming outright

 

Maybe it'd be different if people would intentionally switch things up more like make the protagonist a safeclaim or make villains town members to actively punish people for trying to flavor solve, but as it stands I think allowing flavor solving in the mix just tips things to being too townsided.  Granted I think we would have lost this game even if there was no flavor as I played poorly and Jazz and Sage worked amazingly well together, but I noticed there was a convo about safeclaims in the spec chat so I wanted to give my thoughts on it.

 

 

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fuckfiend    2194

yeah these walls of text are even more unreadable outside of the game

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