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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Aaron said:

But a fake identity was still a huge possibility. There was NO reason to do what he did. He should have just let her die first or at least become symptomatic of it. 

 

Sorry but bad writing is bad writing. Light was a pussy and he wasn't really near total arrogant god-mode at that point. They made him say that for dramatic effect but its a stupid ass decision from the top 2 smartest characters in the show. 

SHE ALREADY LIED TO HIM ABOUT HER NAME IN THE FIRST PLACE (Light only knew because he tried to kill her and it didn't work -- again consistent with the rules of the series). There was no reason to do it twice because she did not know that Light knew she was lying the first tim. Light gained her trust and got her to reveal her actual name on a valid photo ID. I'm sorry to say it could be a fake license at that point is just looking to create an inconsistency where there isn't one. 

 

Aaron you are just objectively wrong on this one. Naomi giving Light two fake IDs when there was no reason to believe that Light knew the first fake name was fake was just not a valid possibility. 

Edited by Francis J Underwood

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Aaron    2051
Posted (edited)

 

24 minutes ago, Francis J Underwood said:

See I disagree with a lot of this 

 

  Hide contents

So let's start with what the show tells us. 

 

The kids are geniuses - Okay. That's great. It never explained why the kids were taught things that would give them the knowledge to escape. Further, the show also makes it very clear that they were never close to outsmarting Mom. In fact, it makes very clear that nothing they did ever stood a chance of working against the Mom. By that logic, rule/assumption 2 renders rule 1 irrelevant which damages the plausibility of an escape. 

 

Rules 3 and 4 are not really rules as they never really come into. play. Nothing about their circumstance aids or hinders their escape (i.e. no superior use of terrain). I'd argue, given the reveal at the end, Mom's special relationship with Ray and wanting to make the best of an awful situation played more into this than being a necessary sacrifice. 

 

Rule 5 was an ass pull until the explanation at the end as Ray's ability to gather those materials that would allow him to explained was never adequately revealed until we knew why the Mom was willing to give him those materials and information. 

 

Rule 6 - I accept that to a degree that the Mom did not consider an organized rebellion a threat. 

 

Rule 7 is irrelevant

 

These are the rules I pulled from Neverland before the final episode 

 

1. The kids at the farm are raised to be geniuses so that they can provide quality brain meat to the aliens. To that effect, they are able to apply abstract concepts for real world application, for example, physics to determine trajectory. 

 

2. At age 12, each kid is shipped off as ready to consume. 

 

3. Security is minimal because Mom's are specifically trained to prevent escape. They outclass the children both physically and mentally. Consequently, escape alone or in small groups is impossible. 

 

4. Mom Isabella is an expert managing the political status of the house. Accordingly, she understands what she can give away to produce quality brain meat and where to draw the line i.e. allowing herself to get closer to her son Ray and providing things and information for his escape to maintain her control over him. To this extent, the rule created is that the Mother has completely resigned herself to being.a part of an unbreakable system (which is only confirmed in the last few episodes when she outright tells you). 

 

Those to me are the four rules of this show. Rules 3 and 4 get broke a lot in non-subtle ways. 

 

In good ways: Emma's ability to organize a rebellion was the key factor that allows you to strain the rules within credulity to make the escape plausible. However, the ending reveal is still necessary to make things plausible when it could have just been established up front. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Since when were the kids never close to outsmarting mom? They clearly were IMO. Maybe we saw the show differently but I always felt the three kids were together smarter than Mom. The only issue was Mom already knew a few of the logistical nightmares to escaping. The actual escape kind of proved that quite simply, they did what she couldn't think of doing. Also the fact that in a few episodes of realising what was really going on, they made so much progress. 

 

Mom was also quite a dumbass at times. Involving Sister Krone for example, despite her ample incompetence. 

 

I don't think 5 is an ass pull at all. He has 12 years to plan his escape so had slowly gathered materials. Mom clearly was humouring him and never realised or thought he could do what he did. 

 

Its quite simple. Mom's biggest weakness was that she failed. Because she failed, she thought the kids were doomed to fail. Hence she gave them a huge amount of lee-way to play their little game of prison break. She also drastically underestimated just how strong Emma was, and how trusting Emma was to the other children (a similar trait Mom shared with Ray). 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Aaron

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Aaron    2051
6 minutes ago, Francis J Underwood said:

Again, I am not trying to bash Neverland, but the series does not have a consistent set of rules that have been built into its universe. Maybe, it is because season 1 is only a prologue, maybe not. 

 

Regardless, we know two things going forward 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

(1) The children have survival skills (which have to matter given they have 0 idea about the environment outside the walls)

 

(2) There is a secret network of children who may aid in their escape (book message). 

 

The writers have pretty much complete ambiguity to write as they go from there. 

 

 

 

 

You can't have a consistent set of rules in place from episode one when the setting of the show changes from episode to episode. 

 

This isn't some simply anime like Death note where a boy gets a book with a bunch of written rules and he can write in the book and kill whoever he wants in episode 1. 

 



From the perspective of the children it clearly shifts from happy orphange to a farm for demons to a farm surrounded by possibly demons and a cliff on the other side... this is also not taking into account the constant character development of every kid. 

 

Idk why im drawing comparisons to death note but for example, they clearly define light l, light and ryuk as some basic as fuck characters from day one. You know what their typical responses are, you know l is an introvert, you know light is a arrogant cunt and ryuk doesn't give a fuck. However Neverland really does develop characters consistently. 

 

Ray goes from being this little emo mysterious smart kid to a double agent to a mistrusting arrogant cunt to having to admit he has faith in don and gilda.. then the final reveal which really did make sense for him; the fact he actually saw himself as a sacrifical lamb so everyone could escape. And it really did make sense.. I sensed his pain when he told Norman that he knew those kids were going off to be killed. 

 

 

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Aaron    2051
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Francis J Underwood said:

SHE ALREADY LIED TO HIM ABOUT HER NAME IN THE FIRST PLACE (Light only knew because he tried to kill her and it didn't work -- again consistent with the rules of the series). There was no reason to do it twice because she did not know that Light knew she was lying the first tim. Light gained her trust and got her to reveal her actual name on a valid photo ID. I'm sorry to say it could be a fake license at that point is just looking to create an inconsistency where there isn't one. 

 

Aaron you are just objectively wrong on this one. Naomi giving Light two fake IDs when there was no reason to believe that Light knew the first fake name was fake was just not a valid possibility. 

 

 

The beef I have is light's action of revealing it to her. Its just beyond retarded. Why run the 1% risk of her actually giving him a fake name. Why not wait until it works first? It doesn't fall in line with a genius-level character at all. He goes from shitting it that he's going to be found out to being the most arrogant dumb cunt in literally less than <5 minutes. 

 

I used to think Death Note was pretty smart when I watched it as a kid but I just can't buy into it these days. 

Edited by Aaron

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Aaron said:

 

 

You can't have a consistent set of rules in place from episode one when the setting of the show changes from episode to episode. 

 

This isn't some simply anime like Death note where a boy gets a book with a bunch of written rules and he can write in the book and kill whoever he wants in episode 1. 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 


From the perspective of the children it clearly shifts from happy orphange to a farm for demons to a farm surrounded by possibly demons and a cliff on the other side... this is also not taking into account the constant character development of every kid. 

 

Idk why im drawing comparisons to death note but for example, they clearly define light l, light and ryuk as some basic as fuck characters from day one. You know what their typical responses are, you know l is an introvert, you know light is a arrogant cunt and ryuk doesn't give a fuck. However Neverland really does develop characters consistently. 

 

Ray goes from being this little emo mysterious smart kid to a double agent to a mistrusting arrogant cunt to having to admit he has faith in don and gilda.. then the final reveal which really did make sense for him; the fact he actually saw himself as a sacrifical lamb so everyone could escape. And it really did make sense.. I sensed his pain when he told Norman that he knew those kids were going off to be killed. 
 

 

 

 

 

Disagree with the bolded. You can have show have a specific set of rules that are not violated if those rules are established through proper world building. I don't know how many chapters of the manga season 1 adapted, and its entirely possible that the prologue structure of season 1 has not given us enough to figure out what these rules are (which is an adaptation problem), but you can (and should) absolutely write a series within a defined universe of rules. 

 

Death Note is an easy example because the rules are laid out very cleanly, but it is not the only example. 

 

Death Parade is another example. 

 

Shield Hero is in the same boat. 

 

5 minutes ago, Aaron said:

 

 

The beef I have is light's action of revealing it to her. Its just beyond retarded. Why run the 1% risk of her actually giving him a fake name. Why not wait until it works first? It doesn't fall in line with a genius-level character at all. He goes from shitting it that he's going to be found out to being the most arrogant dumb cunt in literally less than <5 minutes. 

 

You're inserting a risk that simply was not present. By that logic, it's stupid that the Mother took the 1% risk of the children escaping before the 12th birthday. After the first escape attempt, she should. have just removed any materials that could be used for an escape. She should have called for increase security or inserted some other measure the kids did not know about. Why take the risk? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Francis J Underwood

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Aaron    2051
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Francis J Underwood said:

Disagree with the bolded. You can have show have a specific set of rules that are not violated if those rules are established through proper world building. I don't know how many chapters of the manga season 1 adapted, and its entirely possible that the prologue structure of season 1 has not given us enough to figure out what these rules are (which is an adaptation problem), but you can (and should) absolutely write a series within a defined universe of rules. 

 

Death Note is an easy example because the rules are laid out very cleanly, but it is not the only example. 

 

Death Parade is another example. 

 

Shield Hero is in the same boat. 

 

 

You're inserting a risk that simply was not present. By that logic, it's stupid that the Mother took the 1% risk of the children escaping before the 13th birthday. After the first escape attempt, she should. have just removed any materials that could be used for an escape. She should have called for increase security or inserted some other measure the kids did not know about. Why take the risk? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the whole beauty/point of Neverland is the lack of world building. Its a mystery anime. Its a mystery whats on the outside. Its a mystery who the demons are. They aren't trying to tell a story about the world, they're trying to tell a story from the kids perspective, of whats going on and whats going to happen. Its clear that this anime is more than just what happened during this season. Its going to be a story about a revolutionary, about a set of children who free man kind from the oppression and liberate and rebel against an oppressive force. Its hopefully going to be a story about a set of children doing what adults couldn't.  But that wasn't the story that they had time or material to tell in this first season, which is clearly a prologue. 

 

If they set out all the rules quite plainly, it would have been awfully boring and unpredictable and not nearly as thought provoking as it has been. 

 

 

 

Yup.  Mom was a bit thick. But in fairness to her, she:

1. Got rid of one of the genius level kids

2. Emotionally crippled from her perspective the ring leader

3. Broke the ring leader's leg

4. Got rid of the Krone who was a crack in her armor

 

But sure, the day before their 13th, she should have been more on guard for sure. But then again, I always got the impression from her that there was more to her than what met the eye. Sure her top priority was the brains, but I felt like she also genuinely cared about their comfort until the end. She clearly also had a soft spot for them. She even offered Emma a way out. That was a big weakness of hers. 

 

Her other big mistake was she overlooked all the other kids who were making the preparations. Given that her eyes were always on the big 3. Make no mistake, the big 3 alone would have REALLY struggled to escape IMO. 

Edited by Aaron

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Indignation    2858

Halfway through Jojo season 2. It's a crazy ridiculous show but addicting. Old man Jojo is awesome haha!

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Aaron    2051
Posted (edited)

Neverland critique though 

 

 

 

 


For me I think the things the show should have worked on are:

1. Pacing ; I just felt it was too rushed. If you actually look at this anime from an episode to episode basis, they do SOOO much per episode compared to other animes.

 

Episode 1 is a realisation they have the farm, episode 2 is establishing the big 3, epieosde 3 is Norman declearing is love for Emma + Krone, episode 4 is Ray being the spy, episode 5 is don and gilda's introduction, episode 6 is Don's breakdown following but Krone finding out what happens, etc. etc. For me it was all just a bit fast. An episode setting the scene of how nice and beautiful Neverland is would have been great just to properly blindside views with the demons. 

 

2. Characterisation of side characters

I felt the big 3, don, gilda, krone , phil and mom  obviously were done beautifully. We learnt about the characters until their very last minute of screen time, and for Norman, even past it. However I really wanted to learn more about the other kids. Now this actually might sound like an unfair critique. I mean in 12 episodes they covered 5 characters pretty extensively despite having a plot which moves forward and then threw in another 3 for development too. Thats more than say a 24 episode series like attack on titan, which really only covered i as extensively n its first season Mikasa, Armin, Eren and then showed how bad ass Levi was (I guess it didn't help most other characters were just dropping dead). 

 

Hopefully in season 2 they extend the cast though. I'd like to see at least 4-5 more children come to the forefront. 

 

 

 

The three scenes for me which solidfied this as an anime I'll never forget:

1. Norman talking to Emma about what they should do if they identify a traitor. You can clearly tell just how much Norman adores Emma, and values her opinion and really values her own opinion over his genius-level intelect and logic. He will let her emotions guide where they go, and he'll plan for that. 

2. Don's emotional breakdown in episode 6. Honestly it was such a powerful scene. When he cries in that huge ass field under a huge ass sky, you realise just how insignificant he feels. He thought they came to HIM because they trusted and wanted to rely on him. It made the rope throw even more powerful. He also proved extremely useful given hes definitely the strongest out of the kids (was able to break the door down for Ray) 

3. Mom's last 10 minutes. Most powerful ending in anime for me. And its just the beginning of this show. 

 

This is ignoring other moments such as Emma's initial breakdown and then resolution that she wants to take all the kids, Norman's goodbye (so heart wrenching for Emma), Emma's leg being broken, Ray and Norman's conversation where they pretty much foreshadow most of the show, Phil's reveal, Ray trying to commit suicide.  

 

 

 

 

Is it perfect? Well evidently not but I'm getting very very strong Attack on Titan feels from this show. 
 

 
 

 

Edited by Aaron

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10 hours ago, Aaron said:

Neverland critique though 

 

 

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For me I think the things the show should have worked on are:

1. Pacing ; I just felt it was too rushed. If you actually look at this anime from an episode to episode basis, they do SOOO much per episode compared to other animes.

 

Episode 1 is a realisation they have the farm, episode 2 is establishing the big 3, epieosde 3 is Norman declearing is love for Emma + Krone, episode 4 is Ray being the spy, episode 5 is don and gilda's introduction, episode 6 is Don's breakdown following but Krone finding out what happens, etc. etc. For me it was all just a bit fast. An episode setting the scene of how nice and beautiful Neverland is would have been great just to properly blindside views with the demons. 

 

2. Characterisation of side characters

I felt the big 3, don, gilda, krone , phil and mom  obviously were done beautifully. We learnt about the characters until their very last minute of screen time, and for Norman, even past it. However I really wanted to learn more about the other kids. Now this actually might sound like an unfair critique. I mean in 12 episodes they covered 5 characters pretty extensively despite having a plot which moves forward and then threw in another 3 for development too. Thats more than say a 24 episode series like attack on titan, which really only covered i as extensively n its first season Mikasa, Armin, Eren and then showed how bad ass Levi was (I guess it didn't help most other characters were just dropping dead). 

 

Hopefully in season 2 they extend the cast though. I'd like to see at least 4-5 more children come to the forefront. 

 

 

 

The three scenes for me which solidfied this as an anime I'll never forget:

1. Norman talking to Emma about what they should do if they identify a traitor. You can clearly tell just how much Norman adores Emma, and values her opinion and really values her own opinion over his genius-level intelect and logic. He will let her emotions guide where they go, and he'll plan for that. 

2. Don's emotional breakdown in episode 6. Honestly it was such a powerful scene. When he cries in that huge ass field under a huge ass sky, you realise just how insignificant he feels. He thought they came to HIM because they trusted and wanted to rely on him. It made the rope throw even more powerful. He also proved extremely useful given hes definitely the strongest out of the kids (was able to break the door down for Ray) 

3. Mom's last 10 minutes. Most powerful ending in anime for me. And its just the beginning of this show. 

 

This is ignoring other moments such as Emma's initial breakdown and then resolution that she wants to take all the kids, Norman's goodbye (so heart wrenching for Emma), Emma's leg being broken, Ray and Norman's conversation where they pretty much foreshadow most of the show, Phil's reveal, Ray trying to commit suicide.  

 

 

 

 

Is it perfect? Well evidently not but I'm getting very very strong Attack on Titan feels from this show. 
 

 
 

 

I think the critique you gave is fair and am not looking to add much to it. I think you are right in that it is similar to AoT. Like AoT, I feel that Neverland is going to end up being less of a story and more of a "What twists can we come up with this week" type of thing. Pacing definitely plays a role in that, but I also feel that even without the pacing that was a choice by the author to keep intrigue. I haven't read the manga so we will see. 

 

In terms of characterization, I feel like the characters were fairly linear and we were just spoon-fed things instead of letting them develop. Like they missed a lot of opportunities to create complex relationships and character dynamic in revealing the info about the farm to others. It's a missed chance to me. 

 

Look I'm not bashing Neverland, but it was hyped up as the best thing this season and one of the better animes to come out in a long time and I just think it got overhyped and outshined. That isn't to say it was bad, but, at least this season, Love is War and Shield Hero were just much better executed (granted the latter getting 24 episodes is a big reason why). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

https://www.livechart.me/spring-2019/tv

 

So what's everyone watching?

 

Continuing 

Dorororo

Rising of the Shield Hero

Fairy Tail Final Season

Jojo 

 

New Series

OPM Season 2 

Lost City - If it's madhouse I am in 

 

Overall, it seems like a very weak season to me for new content. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Francis J Underwood

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+rei+    34769

Fruits Basket obv! 

(... no)

 

 

 

im gonna take the season to catch up on shit (last couple epis of bunnygirl, kaguya, rest of gridman, whatever i watch with denis) 

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1 hour ago, Francis J Underwood said:

https://www.livechart.me/spring-2019/tv

 

So what's everyone watching?

 

Continuing 

Dorororo

Rising of the Shield Hero

Fairy Tail Final Season

Jojo 

 

New Series

OPM Season 2 

Lost City - If it's madhouse I am in 

 

Overall, it seems like a very weak season to me for new content. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Adding Carole and Tuesday brcause holy fuck the visuals are amazing like violet evergarden level quality.

 

anime with that kind of budget cant fail

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HououinKyouma    818

Carole and Tuesday: the new Shinichiro Watanabe (Bebop, Kids on the Slope) project 

Sarazanmai: the new Kunihiko Ikuhara (Penguindrum, Utena) project

 

Both of these dudes have been hit or miss so we'll see how it goes.

 

Kimetsu no Yaiba: new Ufotable project

 

I'm all aboard Ufotable stuff now, esp after how great the 2 heaven's feel films were.

 

Otherwise I'll give everything a few eps to impress me because you always pick up some good stuff like the aoty Kemurikusa.

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Aaron    2051
7 hours ago, Francis J Underwood said:

I think the critique you gave is fair and am not looking to add much to it. I think you are right in that it is similar to AoT. Like AoT, I feel that Neverland is going to end up being less of a story and more of a "What twists can we come up with this week" type of thing. Pacing definitely plays a role in that, but I also feel that even without the pacing that was a choice by the author to keep intrigue. I haven't read the manga so we will see. 

 

In terms of characterization, I feel like the characters were fairly linear and we were just spoon-fed things instead of letting them develop. Like they missed a lot of opportunities to create complex relationships and character dynamic in revealing the info about the farm to others. It's a missed chance to me. 

 

Look I'm not bashing Neverland, but it was hyped up as the best thing this season and one of the better animes to come out in a long time and I just think it got overhyped and outshined. That isn't to say it was bad, but, at least this season, Love is War and Shield Hero were just much better executed (granted the latter getting 24 episodes is a big reason why). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'll watch both of those. If they're better than Neverland, I'll be very very happy. 

 

I think it could have oozed more class if they gave it 24 episodes. With the episodes they had, I think they'd struggle to do anymore than they did. 

 

I hope you're wrong on the story versus twists thing. History points towards you being right because the story could literally just go Prison Break style and just fall apart. 

 

Meh, I have to agree and disagree. Although they were linear, they showed clear progression IMO. Emma went from being naive as fuck to a little deviant, able to trick even Ray and Mom. Ray went from being an introverted prick with no faith in ANY other children to someone who was able to trust a few of them. Mom obviously had a very solid development, especially near the end. Norman kind of didn't really change all that much but ... well for obvious reasons. 

 

Yeah if they had 24 episodes...  For example Don's little breakdown SCREAMED being an end-of-episode ending. It was so emotional, so well placed, so well paced.. but due to their time constraints it occurred mid-episode which felt a bit off to me. It was a PIVOTAL scene in realising the  big 3 aren't the be-all and end-all. 

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Posted (edited)

So I just caught up on Overlord 

 

 

Holy fuck.

 

Season 1 was decent 

 

Season 2 was ok

 

Season 3 was awful. 

 

Albedo is the only reason to watch this show and in three seasons she achieved her objective. No idea where they go with her from here (feel like the writers don't know either since she was barely in season 3 after episode 1) 

Edited by Francis J Underwood

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+rei+    34769

i have no idea whats up with CR's licensing in Canada but they only have 2 and 3 

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+rei+    34769

> hulu

> canada 

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+rei+    34769

yeah CR is worth it for the simulcasts 

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+rei+    34769

yeah and i could torrent every piece of media ever produced. There's something to say about convenience of working natively on all your devices and being able to just log in at a friends place 

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3 minutes ago, rei said:

yeah and i could torrent every piece of media ever produced. There's something to say about convenience of working natively on all your devices and being able to just log in at a friends place 

Fair. The reason I use Hulu is to binge watch things and not to have to click the next episode and automatically go to the next. I am just wondering if CR provides anything worthwhile in addition to simulcast (Better recommendation service etc . . .) 

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+rei+    34769

well I mean CR is free you just dont get simulcasts, 1080p, mobile support, or an ad-free expereince without paying

 

I would say in the past CR had a way better anime library than anyone else, now they still have a very good one but their divorce with funimation hasn't done them any favours 

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Haruki    12647

mob psycho 100 ii ended

 

so good

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