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Dragunity - Discussion

September 2011 Format Dragunity

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234 replies to this topic

#201
TheLordGojira

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While the REDMD limiting may have shut off a few OTKs or the more serious herp derp of the deck, it's really not that big of a deal. The biggest hit the deck has taken imho is the loss of Brionac. In other words, really not that much.

Since Thunder King and backrow are probably going to be more prevalent, I'm thinking Legionnaire is gonna be way more important again. As well as backrow removal to ensure power plays go through. Night Beam might be a really good choice as chainable cards seem to be getting more popular (at least in my area), and it hitting a set Space could be rather important for the deck.

I've never been the biggest fan of Baby Roc, but without a second REDMD I may give it a shot.

I'm not really sure how the prospects for this deck are this coming format. One of the big advantages the deck had was a good matchup with Chaos Dragons, which are hardly going to be the threat they were.

What is has going for it now is that while virtually everything else has slowed way down, this deck is still rocking at nearly full speed, and it was already quite fast before.

The problem is that backrow and Thunder-King are likely to be more prevalent. And as Windups haven't really been hit that hard, Maxx "C" should still be a Side Deck Staple. Veiler obviously is and will always be a thorn in the side of this deck.
Also the banlist neglected to hit Dark Worlds for some incomprehensible reason. So that's a bitch too.

Overall I'm thinking the deck will be a bit weaker this format, but the fact that it's now one of the fastest decks playable might give it just enough of an edge.

Thoughts?
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#202
Nimo

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I was running 1 Dr.Red anyway and Brionac was rarely summoned, so the hits doesn't other me at all.

I'm thinking of side switching into Falcon beat, as the deck most problems comes from control style decks. The problem how much space would it require and how good will it mesh together with the main.
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#203
Randy

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This deck will struggle if the projected format/top tier is true (dw, heroes, t-king, hand traps, etc).

That being said, not like the deck really lost anything but the standard builds really need to change now that t-kings are actually being main-decked.
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#204
Nimo

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I think i might return to running 3 CoC again.

and mained Snowman does look really good, even more so with Falcon.
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#205
Randy

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Post-siding at the very least, I'll be looking into tsukuyomi as it's an out to T-king and lets me reuse sided snowmen. Maybe I'll main dark hole again as well...

Forget that idea, seems extremely situational after a second thought.

Edited by Randy, 17 August 2012 - 03:39 PM.

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#206
DragonicHorizons

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I was running 1 Dr.Red anyway and Brionac was rarely summoned, so the hits doesn't other me at all.

I'm thinking of side switching into Falcon beat, as the deck most problems comes from control style decks. The problem how much space would it require and how good will it mesh together with the main.


R I S E. Atum Dragunities has a lot of potential this coming format. I for one, am excited.

My build lost no cards in the changing of formats (Started testing and playing this coming format already). I actually ditched Brionac half way through the format, I had it sided at stages but found it completely unnecessary as we obviously have better level 6 synchros to spawn into. 1 Red-Eyes is no real problem, you only need 1 of him to play the deck, so the second one becomes redundant although, it was a nice failsafe plan at times. The only changes I am consider is possibly using dual Mirror Forces.

I was considering the whole 3 Mystical Space Typhoon and 3 Night Shot fiasco that appears with Heroes but I decided to maintain the solid back-row because at the end of the day Stardust + Back-row is still one of the best and easiest set-ups that benefits you in so many aspects regardless of what situation you are put in (Back-row obviously shifts in certain match-ups, eg. Dark Worlds). Either perspective you seek out, whether you want easy spell/ trap removal or if you want to sit on a solid back-row you will be looking for simplification as the game goes on. It seems like it will be a vital aspect of winning in the coming format for us.

The format will be difficult in the sense that side-decking decisions will be fatal especially with cards like TK to be expected everywhere.

We will obviously have a better outlook on how the deck should be functioning this format once meta is actually defined. Stay positive.
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#207
TheLordGojira

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With Tsukiyomi unbanned, Stardust is significantly less stable than it has been in the past.

That's one of the reasons I'm considering a baby roc despite the potential to be dead. The ability to drop 2 Stardust next to a REDMD is not something to scoff at.

I was considering massive backrow removal too, and still am, but with Thunder King (at least temporarily) more popular, monster removal is highly important too.

Granted Dragunities have not been hurt by the banlist, the way the format is projected to turn out, they're going to be at a disadvantage simply due tp matchups. Dark Worlds are likely going to be top-tier. That's not good.

It's possible to gear the decks towards dealing with this, but it'll still be an uphill battle, and room for such things is an issue.
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#208
different

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When it comes to deck building and game strategizing I'm not the best player. But while stumbling through different builds I've found out a few things.

I've focused my deck to be heavily aggressive. So I've mained 2 royal decrees and sided a third, and also mained 2 forbidden lances. What this does is shut down slower decks that main a lot of traps and can't otk me such as dark world. But as for the faster decks such as a hero lives bubbleman otk, I have no defenses for so I lose turn 2 before I get the combo off. This also happens with decks that happen to draw the nuts such as a player having rabbit and tour guide.

Also figured out my win percentage with this deck is about 60% or I win 3 games out of every 5. I really wish I could raise that some how, but I'm unsure of how, I'm wondering if there is something I can change with the deck.
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#209
TheLordGojira

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I've been considering Decree too. But, one the things you have to keep in mind with this deck is that it can turn off Decree to make your own traps live.

I'm not sure if you are or not, but don't stop running traps because you're running decree. You may see greater success that way. In fact it was a popular OCG strategy a while back, and I haven't forgotten about it.

Anyway, you can turn decree off with Zephyros, (though it isn't that likely, since Zephyros is almost always used to start a loop up or keep it going, either bouncing REDMD or Ravine, or every once in a while a Dux/Legionnaire that didn't go off the turn before) or Scrap Dragon.

Regardless, with Bottomless, D-Prison, and T-King running around, I think 2 Lance is pretty much undeniable staple at this point. I like Night Beam, but it unfortunately doesn't really answer T-King.

Speaking of other outs to T-King, Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind just came to mind. With Zephyros's ability to hit the field without using your normal summon and also saving Ravine, in other scenarios Gale also opens up Black Rose plays (which, if Cyber Dragon becomes a card to side again, will need to find its way back into the extra deck anyway) without real risk.

Nuke the field, summon Dux. Really, how much better could it get? (Answer: by having decree to stop starlight/judgment).

If they veiler the Black Rose, then you baited it out and should be happy. Especially since it's starting to look like people are dropping their veiler counts for some reason...
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#210
different

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as far as tking seeing more play and with rabbit still being a deck, I'm thinking of using forbidden chalice's instead of veilers in the main. Also I was thinking of maining a leviathan dragon a long with trident dragion in extra, that way dragunities can still gustaph max.


There is a lot of space after the combo so there are so many things small things I can change/add and I don't know what is the "best way" so it gets very annoying >.< For example I could start running red nova dragon and archfiend, and have that as a main combo, or run tefnuits and the seal searcher so I can go atum easier. I could run a draw/searcher engine or a stall engine.
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#211
TheLordGojira

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I see what you mean with all that, but if I may put my two cents in, I really don't think dropping Veiler for Chalice is the way to go.

First turn Rabbit can still kill this deck, and Wind Ups are very much still a threat. I'm not sure why popular opinion seems to think Veiler won't be so good anymore, but it won't last. Veiler is still necessary imo.

That and I never liked Chalice that much.
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#212
DragonicHorizons

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With Tsukiyomi unbanned, Stardust is significantly less stable than it has been in the past.


Nani? What?

To take control of the field and hurt us they will need more than just a limited card, especially if it is only Tsukiyomi. It seems more situational than anything else. Tsukiyomi is a medicore problem for us. I understand there are a lot of problems which could come from it, but they all seem rather situational. I don't think it is significantly less stable at all, in fact with a slower format than the previous it is possible one of the strongest opens in the format - well it always has unless you are being sacked.

Good ol' Stardust and protection still wins games regardless of Tsukiyomi being unbanned. It is just another singular out that has some potential to it. It seems like a rather trivial issue..
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#213
TheLordGojira

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With Tsukiyomi unbanned, Stardust is significantly less stable than it has been in the past.


Nani? What?

To take control of the field and hurt us they will need more than just a limited card, especially if it is only Tsukiyomi. It seems more situational than anything else. Tsukiyomi is a medicore problem for us. I understand there are a lot of problems which could come from it, but they all seem rather situational. I don't think it is significantly less stable at all, in fact with a slower format than the previous it is possible one of the strongest opens in the format - well it always has unless you are being sacked.

Good ol' Stardust and protection still wins games regardless of Tsukiyomi being unbanned. It is just another singular out that has some potential to it. It seems like a rather trivial issue..


Oh don't get me wrong, it's still good. But one of the easiest ways to get out of a stardust lock was to book of moon it.
Now Book of Moon is on legs, and twice as likely to be seen in a game. The only ways to stop Tsukiyomi are Warning and Fiendish Chain, with Veiler allowing it to retreat to the hand. Fiendish Chain is rather subpar at the moment, and forcing Warnings and Veilers on Tsukiyomi to stop potential followup weakens the existing Stardust + Backrow setup, and thus invite monster follow-up. Should you not stop the Tsukiyomi, Stardust's presence becomes something of a non-issue, and cards like MST, Heavy Storm, Dark Hole (which is more threatening if you opened with the loop than just a Stardust play), and monsters that pop or have 2100-2500 attack all become live again. (Attacks in general become more live if you have Forbidden Lance set)

Furthermore, even if they don't kill the Stardust, Tsukiyomi can be used multiple times, unlike Book of Moon.

Obviously Tsukiyomi itself doesn't do anything, but it opens up more outs than were previously available. That's what I mean by "less stable".
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#214
DragonicHorizons

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Ah thanks for the hasty reply, it sounded more drastic than intended. Yeah, I understand what you mean now.

Can I inquire into why "Fiendish Chain" is subpar at the moment? Dark World hype or something? Sorry, just returning to the competitive scene again, after a little break from last format. :)
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#215
TheLordGojira

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Ah thanks for the hasty reply, it sounded more drastic than intended. Yeah, I understand what you mean now.

Can I inquire into why "Fiendish Chain" is subpar at the moment? Dark World hype or something? Sorry, just returning to the competitive scene again, after a little break from last format. :)

Dark World Hype is half of it, the other half is Heroes. Both are expected to be top tier this format.

Both of which are also Dragunities worst matchups in the first place. It's not a good idea to weaken those matchups if at all possible. It's also weak against Rabbit, which is ANOTHER bad matchup. It's also rather garbage against Blackwings, too.

Other matchups where it can see use, like Wind-Ups or Chaos Dragons (or an incredibly rare mirror match), you'd be better off with Bottomless or D. Prison anyway.

The one thing I like about it at the moment is that it doesn't conflict with Imperial Iron Wall, but that simply isn't enough right now, and there are other options.
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#216
bluestar899

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Current build. I've been toying with some ideas (mainly ways to get around T-King and/or already established threat monsters) in the form of; 2x Icarus Attack, 2x Malefic Stardust Dragon, 2x Soul Taker or something else I thought of, but can't remember for the life of me.
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#217
TheLordGojira

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Looks solid to me. Personally I'd see if you could squeeze a Starlight Road in though.
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#218
Gojira

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With Tsukiyomi unbanned, Stardust is significantly less stable than it has been in the past.

Nani? What? To take control of the field and hurt us they will need more than just a limited card, especially if it is only Tsukiyomi. It seems more situational than anything else. Tsukiyomi is a medicore problem for us. I understand there are a lot of problems which could come from it, but they all seem rather situational. I don't think it is significantly less stable at all, in fact with a slower format than the previous it is possible one of the strongest opens in the format - well it always has unless you are being sacked. Good ol' Stardust and protection still wins games regardless of Tsukiyomi being unbanned. It is just another singular out that has some potential to it. It seems like a rather trivial issue..

Oh don't get me wrong, it's still good. But one of the easiest ways to get out of a stardust lock was to book of moon it. Now Book of Moon is on legs, and twice as likely to be seen in a game. The only ways to stop Tsukiyomi are Warning and Fiendish Chain, with Veiler allowing it to retreat to the hand. Fiendish Chain is rather subpar at the moment, and forcing Warnings and Veilers on Tsukiyomi to stop potential followup weakens the existing Stardust + Backrow setup, and thus invite monster follow-up. Should you not stop the Tsukiyomi, Stardust's presence becomes something of a non-issue, and cards like MST, Heavy Storm, Dark Hole (which is more threatening if you opened with the loop than just a Stardust play), and monsters that pop or have 2100-2500 attack all become live again. (Attacks in general become more live if you have Forbidden Lance set) Furthermore, even if they don't kill the Stardust, Tsukiyomi can be used multiple times, unlike Book of Moon. Obviously Tsukiyomi itself doesn't do anything, but it opens up more outs than were previously available. That's what I mean by "less stable".

I'm pretty sure veiler works with it like it does with lightsworn effects, meaning you could keep it from returning.
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#219
Nimo

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Current build. I've been toying with some ideas (mainly ways to get around T-King and/or already established threat monsters) in the form of; 2x Icarus Attack, 2x Malefic Stardust Dragon, 2x Soul Taker or something else I thought of, but can't remember for the life of me.


I play a near identical build, the only difference is i play a 3rd Mystletainn and 1 Zephyrus.

btw, what is the card beside SIM in your side.
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#220
Unknown001

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Spoiler


Current build. I've been toying with some ideas (mainly ways to get around T-King and/or already established threat monsters) in the form of; 2x Icarus Attack, 2x Malefic Stardust Dragon, 2x Soul Taker or something else I thought of, but can't remember for the life of me.


I play a near identical build, the only difference is i play a 3rd Mystletainn and 1 Zephyrus.

btw, what is the card beside SIM in your side.

Soul Drain
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#221
TheLordGojira

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With Tsukiyomi unbanned, Stardust is significantly less stable than it has been in the past.

Nani? What? To take control of the field and hurt us they will need more than just a limited card, especially if it is only Tsukiyomi. It seems more situational than anything else. Tsukiyomi is a medicore problem for us. I understand there are a lot of problems which could come from it, but they all seem rather situational. I don't think it is significantly less stable at all, in fact with a slower format than the previous it is possible one of the strongest opens in the format - well it always has unless you are being sacked. Good ol' Stardust and protection still wins games regardless of Tsukiyomi being unbanned. It is just another singular out that has some potential to it. It seems like a rather trivial issue..

Oh don't get me wrong, it's still good. But one of the easiest ways to get out of a stardust lock was to book of moon it. Now Book of Moon is on legs, and twice as likely to be seen in a game. The only ways to stop Tsukiyomi are Warning and Fiendish Chain, with Veiler allowing it to retreat to the hand. Fiendish Chain is rather subpar at the moment, and forcing Warnings and Veilers on Tsukiyomi to stop potential followup weakens the existing Stardust + Backrow setup, and thus invite monster follow-up. Should you not stop the Tsukiyomi, Stardust's presence becomes something of a non-issue, and cards like MST, Heavy Storm, Dark Hole (which is more threatening if you opened with the loop than just a Stardust play), and monsters that pop or have 2100-2500 attack all become live again. (Attacks in general become more live if you have Forbidden Lance set) Furthermore, even if they don't kill the Stardust, Tsukiyomi can be used multiple times, unlike Book of Moon. Obviously Tsukiyomi itself doesn't do anything, but it opens up more outs than were previously available. That's what I mean by "less stable".

I'm pretty sure veiler works with it like it does with lightsworn effects, meaning you could keep it from returning.

Veiler can't stop Lightsworn mills. It only works "until the end phase". Not during.
Furthermore it's the opponent's turn, so they get to decide the order in which effects resolve anyway.
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#222
Arabs N Scarabs

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No you are incorrect veiler does indeed stop lightsworn mills if the veiler player decides he wants that... heres how it goes.. turn player aka the lightsworn guy in the end phase has two choices.. he can mill and be negated or pass to the opponent who decides if he wants to end veiler or not if he doesnt guess what its back to you now and you gotta use the effect now because its mandatory. The same scenario cannot be said with and end phase optional effect like genex neutron.
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#223
TheLordGojira

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Ah. It seems I was mixed up, you're right. And that does help the setup a bit.

Nevertheless the point stands. Tsukiyomi does threaten the setup.
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#224
bluestar899

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Looks solid to me. Personally I'd see if you could squeeze a Starlight Road in though.


I may just drop the second Zeph for it then. I also am tempted to work a second Aklys into the deck for faster access.




Current build. I've been toying with some ideas (mainly ways to get around T-King and/or already established threat monsters) in the form of; 2x Icarus Attack, 2x Malefic Stardust Dragon, 2x Soul Taker or something else I thought of, but can't remember for the life of me.


I play a near identical build, the only difference is i play a 3rd Mystletainn and 1 Zephyrus.

btw, what is the card beside SIM in your side.


As mentioned its Soul Drain. I figure Dragunity is one of the decks out there that can take advantage of the card as save for Aklys, none of our monsters activate in grave/banished and it'd be an interesting way to stop Rabbit/Hero/Chaos Dragon/Dark World/Madolche (assuming their effects actually activate) and Atlanteans for later on in the format.
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#225
TheLordGojira

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As mentioned its Soul Drain. I figure Dragunity is one of the decks out there that can take advantage of the card as save for Aklys, none of our monsters activate in grave/banished and it'd be an interesting way to stop Rabbit/Hero/Chaos Dragon/Dark World/Madolche (assuming their effects actually activate) and Atlanteans for later on in the format.


Stardust and Zephyros activate in the grave.

...That being said I'd probably side it too. Dark Worlds is just such a bitch matchup.

I'd probably drop the Zeph for Starlight too. As for a second aklys, that's totally up to you. I'd personally do it, but then it's pretty much exactly my build at that point.
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#226
bluestar899

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As mentioned its Soul Drain. I figure Dragunity is one of the decks out there that can take advantage of the card as save for Aklys, none of our monsters activate in grave/banished and it'd be an interesting way to stop Rabbit/Hero/Chaos Dragon/Dark World/Madolche (assuming their effects actually activate) and Atlanteans for later on in the format.


Stardust and Zephyros activate in the grave.

...That being said I'd probably side it too. Dark Worlds is just such a bitch matchup.


My bad, hadn't thought about Stardust though Zeph I'd have sided out anyway for the card. At this moment Shadow Mirror I feel is superior, but I do like the option of more hate and versatility cards.
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#227
Nimo

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You can just return Soul Drain / SIM for zephyrus effect.

I have now more than 20 cards i want to side, i guess i'll try Prohibition for starters.
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#228
Randy

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I feel like siding crows on top of the shadow mirrors would be more beneficial than soul drain (what does soul drain actually do to rabbit/heroes anyways?) as they're searchable actual outs to a grapha or lone REDMD while not being vulnerable to decree.

And although you can return shadow mirror for zeph, you can't with soul drain.
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#229
Nimo

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I thought it was like skill drain, just negated effects.

I don't think it hits anything in heroes/rabbit except the shining and sangan.
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#230
A Prolific Discharger

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Probably a crazy idea, but I've been testing Prohibition instead of 3 MST.

I haven't decided on a side deck just yet. One of the problems I've been having when using Dragunities this format is that there are too many deck specific particular counters, or even annoyances, to the decktype. Maxx &quot;C&quot; isn't so much of a problem as Veiler and Thunder King are, but even with 3 or 2 Mystletainn, you are likely going to have to deal with a veiler'd Dux quite often. This is why I main 3 Prohibition. Mystical Space Typhoon can be nice to have, but usually backrow isn't that big of a deal against Dragunity as much as problem monsters like Veiler are. Prohibition is so versatile because you will nearly never encounter the Dragunity mirror match, letting you pick decktype specific cards or staples you wouldn't use in your own build, and it breaks up potential predictable plays that your opponent will try to make to overcome your field or setup their own. And of course Stardust is your ultimate protector here. As far as darkworld are concerned, it's probably a bad choice to have mained I admit. something like 2 Prohibition and 1 MST or other ratios might be more useful.
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#231
different

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prohibition does actually stop dw, just declare grapha and you might as already be the winner. It would stop grapha's destruction effect from going off, and also they could not special summon him from the grave.

that and you have to be more careful with traps.. Unfortunately prohibition does not stop traps already on the field, if you're going second and your opponent has a mst/book/bottomless/solemn warning/solemn judgment/compulse/fiendish chain/torrent down then you're pretty much screwed.

That is the one problem with dragunities I cannot figure out how to solve, that normal summon and resolution of a dux is so key that if the opponent gets rid of it then the deck is screwed for a turn till you can normal summon another next turn.


Other decks seem to have back up plans incase the normal summon is stopped..
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#232
Nimo

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That is the one problem with dragunities I cannot figure out how to solve, that normal summon and resolution of a dux is so key that if the opponent gets rid of it then the deck is screwed for a turn till you can normal summon another next turn.

A boos for wind, at least in the level of sorcerer.
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#233
DragonicHorizons

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So for September 1st, this is a great base (Basic) build for Atum-Dragunities:

Posted Image
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#234
Randy

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Run prisons over chains.
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#235
TheLordGojira

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Card Trooper seems like a real bad idea.

*mills Dux and loses* is gonna happen alot. There's only 14 monsters that the deck searches anyway... like really? You trying to mill spells and traps?

Legionnaire is our Thunder King out. If you need one, just run it.
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