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Stun - Discussion

September 2011 Format Stun

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#1
InfusionsCap

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Stun (also commonly referred to as anti-meta) is an archtype based off the principal of a full on control approach to the game, using a variety of cards whose effects lock down various aspects of the game or create situations that are unfavorable to commonly played decks and cards within any given metagame. Many different approaches can be taken with a Stun deck, and the ability to adapt their tech to any given format is quite possibly the greatest strength of the Stun archtype. With many decks looking to abuse Special Summon mechanics or utilize effects based on the graveyard, Stun has the potential to be a contender in the upcoming months, even in light of the recent ban on the decks usual centerpiece card, Royal Oppression. Before the discussion gets going, let's take a look at some of the commonly played cards in Stun decks...

Thunder King Rai-Oh

Thunder King is arguably the lynchpin monster of the Stun archtype. 1900ATK is nothing to sneeze at, and he has a couple of strong abilities to boot. Chopping cards that search the deck and add to the hand has always been powerful, and is probably going to be a big deal in the new format. Cards like Pot of Duality, Reinforcement of the Army, Goblin Zombie, Sangan, Charge of the Light Brigade and Gladiators Proving Ground (just to name a few) get hit by this. This can hinder not only the consistency of a deck, but the explosive capabilities of it as well. The ability to tribute itself as spot removal for powerful SS monsters is key as well. Dark Armed Dragon, Judgment Dragon, Kristya, Chaos Sorcerer and the dreaded Black Luster Soldier all fall victim to this effect. His presence on the field alone can slow your opponents play to a halt or force them to make sub-optimal plays burning several resources to answer this single card.

Doomcaliber Knight

Another powerful control monster. Once again, 1900ATK is a solid body to place on the field, and the ability to slow your opponent down by negating a crucial effect can make all the difference. DoomCal is an interesting card however, and many duelists feel that its effectiveness varies heavily from one format to the next. This can be a skill demanding card to play with, as it does not discriminate in which effect it negates. Your opponent can also make plays to force the activation of DoomCal, so that is why it is regarded differently in its power level from format to format. The meta is still shaping up obviously and this card is certainly worth consideration once again.

Banisher of the Radiance

Another powerful effect, Banisher is Macro Cosmos with legs. Many decks that are either dependent on the graveyard or just heavily utilizes the graveyard are already seeing play in this format. Agents, Lightsworn and Zombies are receiving a lot of hype right now, just to name a few. Controlling the game in a similar fashion to the Gravekeeper archtypes Necrovalley, Banisher offers additional benefits as well. Outright removing the cards from the game makes it harder to make a big play after Banisher leaves the table, and searcher monsters such as Sangan and Goblin Zombie get cut by Banisher as well. In addition to the previously mentioned decks, Dragunities, Infernities and Frog decks to a degree get hit hard by this guy. Given the correct matchup, Banisher can be a total superstar for this deck.

King Tiger Wanghu

King Tiger has been in the game for a long time but only in recent formats has he begun to receive the attention he deserves. Sticking a King Tiger early in the game can mean disaster for some decks. 1700ATK is a sizable body, and the effect to keep many of the small combo based monsters in the game from having their way to the fullest degree can put the opponent into a situation where they simply do not have a good move. Many times players must "minus" themselves just to answer the King Tiger and attempt to develop their board. Once again however, the effectiveness of this card depends greatly on the decks that are seeing the most play. Building Stun to its maximum potential for the format is all about assessing the meta as a whole.

Fossil Dyna Pachycephalo

I thought Royal Oppression got banned. This little guy puts in so much work. Fossil Dyna is the kind of card that can win a game on his own. EVERYTHING in the game special summons in some way now, and Fossil Dyna sticking to the field can "dead hand" an opponent all on his own. Combining it with protection can end games, and there is nothing more disheartening for an opponent than to have nothing on the field, get ready to make a Gorz play, and you summon a Fossil Dyna. Cutting SS searchers, battle tricks like Gorz and Tragoedia, powerful S/T cards like Reborn and Call and the ability to shut out huge boss monsters like Judgment Dragon and B.L.S. makes this card one of the most powerful and devastating in the entire Stun arsenal. His second effect to destroy SS'd monsters when he flips up is really nice too, and timing it right can get you out of a lot of trouble.

Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer

Another solid trick that only gets better the more a format depends on the use of the graveyard. Removing key monsters from play can prevent many strong plays from taking place, like dropping Judgment Dragon, Dark Armed, B.L.S./Sorcerer (when Kycoo leaves) and even prevent cards like Pot of Avarice by limiting the amount of monsters a player can keep in their graveyard as long as Kycoo is getting through for damage. Preventing cards from getting removed is really nice too, as it stops effects like Necro Gardna, Phantom of Chaos and even the summons of Chaos monsters like Sorcerer and BLS. Expect to see a lot of Kycoo sided in the upcoming months, and consider him highly when experimenting with a Stun deck.

Other monsters that commonly see play mained or sided in Stun...

Cyber Dragon
Blackwing-Gale the Whirlwind
Neo-Spacian Grand Mole
Breaker the Magical Warrior
D.D. Warrior Lady
Spirit Reaper
Kinetic Soldier
Chaos Sorcerer (Chaos Variant)
Black Luster Soldier (Chaos Variant)

Remember, Stun is an ever changing archtype, limited only by your own creativity and what is effective against the dominant portion of the field. Just because something is not listed here does not mean it can't possibly see play in this deck. Onto the commonly played spell cards now...

Pot of Duality

Obviously this card is an auto-include in this deck. Consistency is the key, and this card certainly provides that with virtually no drawback since outside of a possible Cyber Dragon or Monster Reborn play it is highly unlikely that you will have any need to Special Summon. Getting smooth, balanced hands is the key to seeing success with this deck, and Pot of Duality certainly helps with that.

Smashing Ground

Another solid card. Removal is good, and this one ranks pretty highly in this deck. The nature of the deck can make it quite difficult for an opponent to ever break through, and when they finally do it is actually quite often with only one monster that you need to answer to be able to return to putting steady pressure on them. No need o go into great detail about this one, just make sure to consider it when using Stun.

Forbidden Lance

An addition barely a format old, but a welcome addition none the less. Lance provides Stun with another card that can be used to protect a monster as a combat trick similar to Shrink in the days of old, but with a serious advantage. Lance can also be used in a much more offensive manner as well as the defensive. Being able to place another monster on the field to continue to apply pressure and push damage is essential for this deck, and Lance can give you a way to do that without having to fear removal such as Mirror Force, Torrential Tribute or Dimensional Prison for example quite as much as you usually would. This does not mean you can play recklessly just because you have it, but it does afford unique opportunities that you may not have in other situations. A strong choice for this deck as well.

Obvious spell includes...

Dark Hole
Monster Reborn
Mystical Space Typhoon
Book of Moon

Other commonly played spell cards in the main or side deck...

Enemy Controller
Heavy Storm
Dimensional Fissure
Nobleman of Crossout

Once again, experimentation and adaptation is the key. Now, onto the traps...

Bottomless Trap Hole

This card fell out of fashion in recent formats, but even still the nature of this deck makes this a powerful trap card. Many times a monsters effect can't be utilized in the way it was meant to be, or at all, and sometimes big monsters with strong effects to destroy cards on the field can't come out, or even through something like Fossil Dyna or King Tiger small monsters leading to swarms of bigger monsters can't make the appearance they need to get things going for the opposition. The point is that Bottomless is a strong choice in a deck like this because of the nature of the deck. Cutting effects and summons can simplify the game state in such a way that Bottomless Trap Hole can be at its full effectiveness. A strong choice for one-for-one removal in a Stun deck.

Dimensional Prison

Another powerful option. The ability to spot remove virtually any threat is certainly nice, and when you factor in that it can handle one of this decks biggest threats (a resolved Stardust Dragon) the card just gets even better. The weakness of this card is its lack of chainability, and in a faster format that can prove to be an issue. It is still a good choice overall though and certainly something to consider.

Compulsory Evacuation Device

Another solid removal trap. The disadvantage of CED is the fact that it is ultimately a minus unless the target of it is a syncro/fusion/xyz monster, then it is a one for one. The advantage though is the speed at which it can be used; the chainability factor of it is great. In a format that is more dominated by spamming syncro monsters, CED is stronger than in a format dominated by a deck that can SS monsters from the hand with relative ease. Given the hype surrounding Lightsworn, Agent and Chaos decks this may be the latter of the two, but even in that case this card is still worth receiving a second look in this deck and would still be a possible candidate for the side deck.

Starlight Road

This card may be the strongest it has ever been in this deck right now under this current list. Heavy Storm coming back into the game makes this live more often, but there is also Dark Hole which can also trigger it often. There are many monsters that are expected to see a fair amount of play that can set this off as well. Judgment Dragon, Celestia, and Gyzarus come to mind right away. There are two very nice things about Starlight Road in this deck. First of all, heavy backfield sets are quite common. Having a way to protect them other than Solemn Judgment or Dark Bribe is certainly nice. The second advantage Starlight Road has in this deck is the ability to use it no matter what. In the past, this was a much more risky card to play since Royal Oppression could stop it regardless of whether or not you wanted to bring out a Stardust Dragon, simply because of the wording on it. Fossil Dyna is not worded quite the same way. Starlight Road can still be used to stop an effect like Heavy Storm with Dyna out, you just obviously don't get the summon. This is extremely important because it allows you to set heavily to protect any monster you need to keep, including something like Fossil Dyna. These differences plus the changes in the banned/restricted list make this card a much safer bet to play than before, and quite possible an auto include in the main and/or side deck in the upcoming format.

Obvious trap includes...

Mirror Force
Torrential Tribute
Solemn Judgment
Solemn Warning

Other commonly played traps in the main or side deck...

Dark Bribe
Trap Hole
Dust Tornado (in past formats)
Threatening Roar (maybe given the anticipated speed of the upcoming meta)
Seven Tools of the Bandit
Starlight Road (additional copies if you want)

Hopefully this is a solid overview of the Stun archtype as a whole. Thanks for reading and getting involved in the potential furthering of this archtype. Now, LET THE DISCUSSION BEGIN!!!!
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#2
Mo .

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Good start. I think a Chaos variant is very viable atm. Things I've noticed:

- Doomcali sucks right now.
- I don't know how good Dyna is. You can't really protect it as well as you could last format, and you'd probably need Bribes or something to protect the backrow needed to protect Dyna.
- I like Tour guide, even in this deck. :P I think you should mention something about it in the OP.

20.
3 Tour Guide from the Underworld
3 Thunder King Rai-Oh
3 Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
2 Banisher of the Radiance
2 Effect Veiler
2 Chaos Sorcerer
1 Gorz, the Emissary of Darkness
1 Sangan
1 Blackwing - Gale the Whirlwind
1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
1 Spirit Reaper

11.
3 Pot of Duality
3 Mystical Space Typhoon
2 Smashing Ground
1 Heavy Storm
1 Monster Reborn
1 Dark Hole

10.
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
2 Call of the Haunted
2 Solemn Warning
1 Trap Dustshoot
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Mirror Force
1 Solemn Judgment

I definitely need to cut it down to 40. I'm unsure about running Veiler and Banisher together. I don't even know how good Banisher will be. Thoughts?
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#3
Spaceman

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According to some people I know, Dragons are supposedly the best Anti-Meta this format...
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#4
ShyGuy

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well a person that is. lol
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#5
Mo .

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Lol, I guess I won't be using Tour Guide in that above build then.
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#6
Aperture

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I think Chaos Stun is definitely going to be the most popular variation of this deck popping up this format because of monsters like Doomcaliber and Rai-Oh who can hold their own unlike cards like Fossil Dyna or Banisher who need backrow protection to stay on the field for long periods of time. I feel Fossil Dyna lost a lot of power with Storm coming back and MST going to three because having a field of Dyna and 3+ backrows would just completely lock down your opponent, now you can't do that unless it's backed up by Bribe/Solemn/Starlight. I plan to test a ton of versions of this deck though.
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#7
Karmaface

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How do you guys feel about Stun variants this format, and how well they stand up to Dark World?
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#8
Michigan J. Frog

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According to some people I know, Dragons are supposedly the best Anti-Meta this format...

Then you know some retarted people. lol

Koaki Meiru Drago is pretty solid imo atm but to call a deck with three of those "the best Anti-Meta this format" is the kind of thing I expect from Pojo.
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#9
Spaceman

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According to some people I know, Dragons are supposedly the best Anti-Meta this format...

Then you know some retarted people. lol

Koaki Meiru Drago is pretty solid imo atm but to call a deck with three of those "the best Anti-Meta this format" is the kind of thing I expect from Pojo.


100% agreed.
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#10
GokuDB

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40
m:15
1 cyber dragon
3 thunder king rai-oh
1 effect veiler
2 doomcaliber knight
2 kycoo the ghost destroyer
1 gorz the emissary of darkness
3 reborn tengu
1 king tiger wanghu
1 neo spacian grand mole

s:13
3 pot of duality
2 dimensional fissure
2 mystical space typhoon
1 burden of the mighty (testing)
1 monster reborn
1 dark hole
2 smashing ground
1 book of moon
t:12
1 starlight road
2 magic drain
1 trap dustshoot
2 solemn warning
1 solemn judgment
1 torrential tribute
1 mirror force
1 dimensional prison
2 bottomless trap hole
sidedeck:12
1 cyber dragon
2 ally of justice quarantine
1 king tiger wanghu
1 breaker the magical warrior
1 d.d. crow
1 leeching the light
1 nobleman of crossout
1 mystical space typhoon
2 mind crush
1 chain disappearance
need ideas for the side
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#11
Projector

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The problem I found with this deck, is that it had no good way of getting +s. Most things are 1for1s and it runs out of steam against most meta decks that can plus.
Has anyone found a successful plus engine for this deck?
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#12
Manoffriendship

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Going the E-Hero route seems like the best way. It is not as good and conflicts with Rai-oh, but you get a way of going + 1, drawing from the deck along with duality and much needed destruction, but then you run miracle fusion and then that forces you to take out majority of you stun cards.

I don't have the deck-list, but I know on E-Hero Stun deck topped with maining 3 fossil and 3 Rai-oh and 2 Doom caliber and no miracle fusion, but the reasoning behind running this deck , according to the player, was to have a good GK match-up while having stun cards against other deck.
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#13
Spaceman

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Stun Gadget?
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#14
Projector

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Going the E-Hero route seems like the best way. It is not as good and conflicts with Rai-oh, but you get a way of going + 1, drawing from the deck along with duality and much needed destruction, but then you run miracle fusion and then that forces you to take out majority of you stun cards.

I don't have the deck-list, but I know on E-Hero Stun deck topped with maining 3 fossil and 3 Rai-oh and 2 Doom caliber and no miracle fusion, but the reasoning behind running this deck , according to the player, was to have a good GK match-up while having stun cards against other deck.


So like regular stun + 3x alius, 1x stratos, and 3x spark?

I guess Stun Gadget could work. But running 6 gadgets kinda takes away from the stun aspect. Decklist?
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#15
Manoffriendship

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Going the E-Hero route seems like the best way. It is not as good and conflicts with Rai-oh, but you get a way of going + 1, drawing from the deck along with duality and much needed destruction, but then you run miracle fusion and then that forces you to take out majority of you stun cards.

I don't have the deck-list, but I know on E-Hero Stun deck topped with maining 3 fossil and 3 Rai-oh and 2 Doom caliber and no miracle fusion, but the reasoning behind running this deck , according to the player, was to have a good GK match-up while having stun cards against other deck.


So like regular stun + 3x alius, 1x stratos, and 3x spark?

I guess Stun Gadget could work. But running 6 gadgets kinda takes away from the stun aspect. Decklist?




You have 1900 beaters, you can get them back with hero blast, pop cards with sparks.
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#16
cottoncandymajinbuu

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Monsters: 18
3 Hydrogeddon
3 Jurrac Guaiba
3 Photon Sabre Tiger
3 Tour Guide From the Underworld
2 Thunder King Rai-Oh
1 Black Luster Soldier - Envoy of the Beginning
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Jurrac Velo
1 Sangan

Spells: 14
3 Forbidden Lance
2 Fossil Dig
2 Pot of Duality
1 Book of Moon
1 Dark Hole
1 Enemy Controller
1 Heavy Storm
1 Mind Control
1 Monster Reborn
1 Pot of Avarice

Traps: 10
2 Dimensional Prison
2 Solemn Warning
1 Dark Bribe
1 Mirror Force
1 Mirror Wall
1 Solemn Judgment
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Trap Dustshoot

Extra Deck:
3 Evolzar Dolkka
3 Evolzar Laggia
1 Ally of Justice Catastor
1 Brionac, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
1 Chimeratech Fortress Dragon
1 Leviair the Sea Dragon
1 Number 20: Giga Brilliant
1 Number 39: Utopia
1 Steelswarm Roach
1 Trishula, Dragon of the Ice Barrier
1 Wind-Up Zenmaines

Side Deck:
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
2 Breaker the Magical Warrior
2 Cyber Dragon
2 Dimensional Fissure
2 Doomcaliber Knight
2 Leeching the Light
2 Smashing Ground
1 Mystical Space Typhoon


This is probably not the right deck for PST and I will end up cutting it for hand traps if that proves correct, but I want to atleast try it first since I like the concept of a good Light turn 1 summon that replaces itself.
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#17
Zodiark

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I toped 16 at YCS toronto last month with a hero stun deck and i makes me sad how people are giving fossil dyna such a hard time because there is little backfield protection. Dyna is plenty capable of taking care of himself with 1200 atk. The only card in a plant deck that can get over it is tengu which there is only 3 of in a deck and the only card an agent deck has that can get over it is a venus. For those 6 cards 3 in each deck a set d prison or solemn warning will be your savior. You would be surprised how many lengths people will go to to get rid of a dyna on the field and you just laugh at them cuz u have a reborn to bring it back or another one in hand. on average from the tourny it took about 4 turns to remove a dyna from the field and by then i had another one or something much worse for them. So i ask you plz do not give dyna such a hard time the card is amaizing and does not need protecting. Dyna is also amaizing against DW!!!
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#18
G Λ r Ω N

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I toped 16 at YCS toronto last month with a hero stun deck and i makes me sad how people are giving fossil dyna such a hard time because there is little backfield protection. Dyna is plenty capable of taking care of himself with 1200 atk. The only card in a plant deck that can get over it is tengu which there is only 3 of in a deck and the only card an agent deck has that can get over it is a venus. For those 6 cards 3 in each deck a set d prison or solemn warning will be your savior. You would be surprised how many lengths people will go to to get rid of a dyna on the field and you just laugh at them cuz u have a reborn to bring it back or another one in hand. on average from the tourny it took about 4 turns to remove a dyna from the field and by then i had another one or something much worse for them. So i ask you plz do not give dyna such a hard time the card is amaizing and does not need protecting. Dyna Is also amaizing against DW!!!


What's a ThunderKing?
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#19
Arawn

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I toped 16 at YCS toronto last month with a hero stun deck and i makes me sad how people are giving fossil dyna such a hard time because there is little backfield protection. Dyna is plenty capable of taking care of himself with 1200 atk. The only card in a plant deck that can get over it is tengu which there is only 3 of in a deck and the only card an agent deck has that can get over it is a venus. For those 6 cards 3 in each deck a set d prison or solemn warning will be your savior. You would be surprised how many lengths people will go to to get rid of a dyna on the field and you just laugh at them cuz u have a reborn to bring it back or another one in hand. on average from the tourny it took about 4 turns to remove a dyna from the field and by then i had another one or something much worse for them. So i ask you plz do not give dyna such a hard time the card is amaizing and does not need protecting. Dyna is also amaizing against DW!!!


Some of the things you said were true, but Dyna is definitely not "amazing" against Darkworld. Every single monster they have runs over Dyna, except Tour Guide and Sangan.

But I agree that Dyna is still a very good card for the current meta, it's just that it is harder to protect it now with Heavy Storm and Triple Typhoon... Plus Rai-Oh is being mained, which gets over Dyna easily, so it's not just Tengus and Venus.
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#20
Zodiark

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Ya that's true. sorry guys about the rant its just that dyna was my hero at that particular ycs lol.
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#21
InfusionsCap

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This is a pretty straight forward approach to Stun, but it has been testing really well for me.

3 Thunder King
3 Kycoo
3 King Tiger
3 Banisher
3 Fossil Dyna (15)

3 Duality
1 Heavy
1 Dark Hole
1 Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Forbidden Lance
3 Smashing Ground
3 Mystical Space Typhoon (14)

1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
2 Solemn Warning
1 Solemn Judgment
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
3 Dimensional Prison
1 Starlight Road (11) (40)

EXTRA

1 Fortress Dragon
1 Trishula
1 Stardust
1 Scrap Dragon
1 Black Rose
1 Brionac
1 Orient Dragon
1 Catastor
1 Librarian
3 Utopia
1 Roach
1 Leviair
1 Leviathan (15)

SIDE

1 Cyber Dragon
2 Breaker the Magical Warrior
3 DoomCal Knight
2 Nobleman of Crossout
2 Dimensional Fissure
1 Enemy Controller
2 Shadow Mirror
2 Light Mirror (15)
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#22
Spaceman

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I've always liked Gorz in the main deck. Catches opponent off guard when they get rid of 4 backrow then you drop Gorz on them.
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#23
Manoffriendship

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This is a pretty straight forward approach to Stun, but it has been testing really well for me.

3 Thunder King
3 Kycoo
3 King Tiger
3 Banisher
3 Fossil Dyna (15)

3 Duality
1 Heavy
1 Dark Hole
1 Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Forbidden Lance
3 Smashing Ground
3 Mystical Space Typhoon (14)

1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
2 Solemn Warning
1 Solemn Judgment
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
3 Dimensional Prison
1 Starlight Road (11) (40)

EXTRA

1 Fortress Dragon
1 Trishula
1 Stardust
1 Scrap Dragon
1 Black Rose
1 Brionac
1 Orient Dragon
1 Catastor
1 Librarian
3 Utopia
1 Roach
1 Leviair
1 Leviathan (15)

SIDE

1 Cyber Dragon
2 Breaker the Magical Warrior
3 DoomCal Knight
2 Nobleman of Crossout
2 Dimensional Fissure
1 Enemy Controller
2 Shadow Mirror
2 Light Mirror (15)


I would side the fossil dynas and main 3 Cyber dragons since you need the out to Zenmaines and Compulsory/safe zone would also be nice since you can pop a monster when they heavy/MST it and you can protect your Thunderking or get rid of zenmaines/gachi gachi.
Cyber dragon makes a very good beater and help a lot going second against karakuri since game two they will expect fossil dyna, but you can MST back row and play Cyber dragon and clear their field and keep your normal summon and this deck needs to keep its normal summon.

Also where is dustshoot ? With 3 dualities, dustshoot is staple to break up plays.
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#24
InfusionsCap

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I've always liked Gorz in the main deck. Catches opponent off guard when they get rid of 4 backrow then you drop Gorz on them.

I'm working on finding a slot for Gorz. In all honesty he is the only thing I hate not having with this deck.
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#25
InfusionsCap

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This is a pretty straight forward approach to Stun, but it has been testing really well for me.

3 Thunder King
3 Kycoo
3 King Tiger
3 Banisher
3 Fossil Dyna(15)

3 Duality
1 Heavy
1 Dark Hole
1 Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Forbidden Lance
3 Smashing Ground
3 Mystical Space Typhoon(14)

1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
2 Solemn Warning
1 Solemn Judgment
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
3 Dimensional Prison
1 Starlight Road(11)(40)

EXTRA

1 Fortress Dragon
1 Trishula
1 Stardust
1 Scrap Dragon
1 Black Rose
1 Brionac
1 Orient Dragon
1 Catastor
1 Librarian
3 Utopia
1 Roach
1 Leviair
1 Leviathan(15)

SIDE

1 Cyber Dragon
2 Breaker the Magical Warrior
3 DoomCal Knight
2 Nobleman of Crossout
2 Dimensional Fissure
1 Enemy Controller
2 Shadow Mirror
2 Light Mirror(15)


I would side the fossil dynas and main 3 Cyber dragons since you need the out to Zenmaines and Compulsory/safe zone would also be nice since you can pop a monster when they heavy/MST it and you can protect your Thunderking or get rid of zenmaines/gachi gachi.
Cyber dragon makes a very good beater and help a lot going second against karakuri since game two they will expect fossil dyna, but you can MST back row and play Cyber dragon and clear their field and keep your normal summon and this deck needs to keep its normal summon.

Also where is dustshoot ? With 3 dualities, dustshoot is staple to break up plays.

Three Dyna is absolutely necessary in the main deck with this approach to the build. It's easily one of the best and most disruptive cards in the deck, and drawing it after they break free and make a big play is still solid because of his effect when he flips up; it's another way to get control of the game again. Cutting Dyna isn't an option at all.
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#26
Spaceman

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How good has the 3 King Tiger been for you? You could potentially cut 1 for the Gorz.
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#27
Sanjura

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16
3 Reborn Tengu
3 Beast King Barbaros
3 Thunder King Rai-oh
3 Photon Sabre Tiger
2 King Tiger Wanghu
2 Maxx "C"

9
3 Pot of Duality
2 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Dark Hole
1 Heavy Storm
1 Book of Moon
1 Monster Reborn

17
3 Horn of the Phantom Beast
2 Solemn Warning
2 Bottomless Trap Hole
2 Skill Drain
1 Dimensional Prison
1 Compulsory Evacuation Device
1 Starlight Road
1 Dark Bribe
1 Solemn Judgment
1 Mirror Force
1 Torrential Tribute
1 Trap Dustshoot

It's 41 but eh.
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#28
InfusionsCap

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How good has the 3 King Tiger been for you? You could potentially cut 1 for the Gorz.

Tiger has been really solid. If anything I'm actually thinking of cutting a Kycoo for it, since he is better after a couple of turns have passed anyway. I'm also considering Dustshoot over the Lance.
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#29
rh888king

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How well is lance this format compared to smashing?
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#30
InfusionsCap

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How well is lance this format compared to smashing?

I feel like Smashing is just stronger in the format as a whole and in this particular version of this deck. It's not that Lance is bad, it's just not amazing and for a deck like this to work consistently you need every draw to be as live as possible.
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#31
rh888king

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How well is dck this format?
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#32
Birthing Pod

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With Veiler being as widely played as it is, DCK's life expectancy isn't long.
But if your opponent doesn't have something to throw away to get rid of him, he goes hard.

The field of DCK + TKRO/Dyna is amazing.
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#33
Haxors

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I think a chaos build using PST and safe zone would be the best in this format.

2 cydra
3 tkro
3 pst
3 tgu
1 sangan
3 kycoo
1 honest
1 bls
2 sorcerer
19

3 pod
1 bom
1 dark hole
1 monster reborn
2 lance
1 heavy
9

2 warning
1 judgment
2 road
2 safe zone
3 prison
1 dustshoot
1 torrential
12

I think i'm forgetting something important but oh well.
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#34
harig07

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Guess this qualifies as Stun so might as well post it here. Around a year and a half ago I came up with an idea revolving around a small little lock of Cactus Bouncer + Black Garden.

Posted ImagePosted Image

Black Garden is actually pretty awesome, shrinking literally everything while clogging the field with Tokens is pretty awesome. Normal Summoning Cactus then activating Black Garden pretty much means that they have to drop like Malefic Cyber End in order to get rid of it, as if they summon anything it'll trigger BG and they won't be able to Special Summon. Obviously they can hit the Black Garden or the Cactus, the former being more likely as most people only main Dark Hole as monster removal while MST is mained in 2-3 along with Heavy.

Anyways back then it was a kind of Plant Stun deck, Lonefire was at 2 so Tytannial was consistent and the Naturia engine was also plausible (Rosewhip is still pretty beast). I've started revisiting the idea cause it is my original deck idea so I kind of want to explore it as much as I can :P The deck has gotten a few nice additions too.

Safe Zone:
This is one of the biggest reasons why I'm revisiting the deck. So easy to play protect the monster and this nullifies so much of the stuff that they're going to do. Win so many games by sitting on TKRO/Bouncer/TGHL with this.

3 Deep Sea Diva + Non-Tuner (presumably LBB):
I think this is a good addition as early TGHL backed by Black Garden is surprisingly efficient at locking the opponent. If they Synchro spam in order to get rid of it you get mad pluses and 2400 is tough to deal with (2400 is also a golden number for Black Garden). Also opens up Gachi Gachi, which can help boost Tokens and monsters to high attack in order to get over stuff.

Hero Engine:
Testing out in real life but not sure yet, in theory good because the deck sometimes has problems of lack of monsters and the Hero engine can provide a temporary influx of beatsticks.

Tyrant's Cards:
You know, Tyrant's Temper and shit like that. They are actually SO underrated and the deck basically gets the effects off for free cause of Black Garden. Maining 1 Tyrant's Tummyache at the moment and it's sick against Plants while siding 2 Tytant's Temper

Naturia Engine:
So far I'm only maining the 1 Rosewhip, basically I'm not sure on how consistent the Naturia engine would be. Bambooshoot has loads of potential though, BBS + Safe Zone is basically game.

Snowman Eater:
Siding 2, maining 1. Can sit on it for ages thanks to Black Garden.

Dark Bribe/Starlight Road:
This is another issue. Starlight Road is obviously the more broken card but it doesn't get to exploit its broken factor very often cause CBouncer prevents Special Summons. For this reason I'm using a 3:1 ratio at the moment. Imo 3 Dark Bribe is a must purely because of how fragile the backrow is and cockblocking MST is pivotal to winning a lot of games.


So for a sample list

Monsters (15):
3 Cactus Bouncer
3 Thunder King Rai-Oh
3 Deep Sea Diva
1 Lost Blue Breaker
1 Effect Veiler
1 Maxx "C"
1 Caius the Shadow Monarch
1 Snowman Eater
1 Naturia Rosewhip

Spells (11):
3 Pot of Duality
3 Black Garden
1 Terraforming
1 Dark Hole
1 Monster Reborn
1 Book of Moon
1 Creature Swap

Traps (15):
3 Safe Zone
3 Dark Bribe
2 Solemn Warning
1 Solemn Judgment
1 Starlight Road
1 Fiendish Chain
1 Compulsory Evacuation Device
1 Dimensional Prison
1 Mirror Force
1 Tyrant's Tummyache

Any help would be much appreciated :)
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#35
Candela

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Maxx "C" is the sole reason no one should even touch Black Garden.
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#36
Zeppelin

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Why is no one playing spirit reaper? He stalls. You have plenty of one for one removal so he gets pokes in and he's a dark for bls if you want to go the chaos stun route
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#37
X-Mako_CooL

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ive always liked dimensional fissure in main and sidedeckin for MSTs if its needed, I mean, I know its kind of difficult to play without them but I think the main is against all the meta and the side is against the 1x1.deks.
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#38
Candela

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Why is no one playing spirit reaper? He stalls. You have plenty of one for one removal so he gets pokes in and he's a dark for bls if you want to go the chaos stun route

everyone plays spirit reaper...
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#39
Zeppelin

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Why is no one playing spirit reaper? He stalls. You have plenty of one for one removal so he gets pokes in and he's a dark for bls if you want to go the chaos stun route

everyone plays spirit reaper...

I'm talking about the above deck lists no one is running it in there builds
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#40
Sairok

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Im playin Merlin Schumacher deck


Spoiler


+1 Reaper

The deck is really good i'm currently 12-1 RL
This deck beats consistently DW, Plants, T.G., Monarchs
Is good against Agents & Karakuris, Rabbit matchup can be tough, but pachy, mole & gale are outs to laggia & there are also many outs to dolkka...
Safe Zone is just amazing in here, protecting pachy, banisher, gale, kycoo,etc..
I think this is a really good option to face the current meta...
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: September 2011 Format, Stun

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