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Chain Burn - Discussion


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#161
Keizer

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Ah, i mean battle fader*

#162
confuse rei

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Okay so i have played a few more games and came to several conclusions.

- vs darkworld u almost have an instant win. i didnt lose any games vs darkworld.
- vs dragons also almost auto win, just make sure u time everything correctly

Those 2 are autowin unless they manage to drop game in the first turns, so u have to stall from the beggining and it can get ugly. I dont consider them autowin, but they are pretty good.

- vs dinorabbit, same as inzektor, important to start and to get ojama asap. laggia/dolka isnt much of a problem at all. just get all ur nonchainable stuff out g2

Actually, the non chainable stuff (d wall, cylinder), find their best match vs dino rabbit. Vs inzektor dw its easy that they get popped, vs dragon they play lylas and rykos, and they play 2400 dudes which is more than enough dmg for the cylinder/ d wall. And dolkka can be problematic when he will render the scarecrows useless mid/late game.

i also noticed that ceasefire can come in handy. i dropped the thunder short for a ceasefire, because you do 800-1200 damage MAX. which leaves them on 300 Lp left sometimes.

Keep in mind that ojama tokens are not effect monsters, so ceasefire would do at most 1000 in that situation. Thats why i dont like it.

sidedeck still isn't perfect, do know that marshmallon is questionable, only because it gets destroyed easily and is too slow. but then again, opp. doesnt see em coming g2 so they think its a jar, which makes them attack it while setting everything they have.

Marshmallon geting popped by dolkka is the main reason why we dont play marshmallon, the fool/gellenduo/reaper are a much better choice.



Also, to the guy who wondered about the fool vs gellenduo, in my eyes, gellenduo is slightly better because it has a decent attack and in rare occasion if u have enough protection u could drop some damage early game, and in the situations where both are bad, gellenduo is less worse, like if they mind control it or use that xyz that turns defense monsters to attack. But i still use folls due to the fact that i have them and i cant be assed to find triple gellenduo.

#163
Gojira

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I will be taking this to locals today (sans cardcar obviously). I'm stuck between an allure of harness build with this monster line-up
Sangan
Gorz
3 battle fader
Ceasefire
1 metaion
1-2 Lava golem
0-2 maxx c

For darks, or the generic build with the Gorz sided and no or sided ceasefire.

Also, should I main 2 maxx c pre-cardcar, or just side for stuff like wind ups?

#164
Keizer

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I will be taking this to locals today (sans cardcar obviously). I'm stuck between an allure of harness build with this monster line-up
Sangan
Gorz
3 battle fader
Ceasefire
1 metaion
1-2 Lava golem
0-2 maxx c

For darks, or the generic build with the Gorz sided and no or sided ceasefire.

Also, should I main 2 maxx c pre-cardcar, or just side for stuff like wind ups?

You NEED them scarecrows. Without you will not win. Also, Gorz in main is not needed and Maxx C is also dead most of the time. You do not want to draw maxx midgame and battle faders are easily negated. I also do not understand why you would play sangan>jar.
Just play the build i previously posted, trust me

#165
Gojira

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I will be taking this to locals today (sans cardcar obviously). I'm stuck between an allure of harness build with this monster line-up
Sangan
Gorz
3 battle fader
Ceasefire
1 metaion
1-2 Lava golem
0-2 maxx c

For darks, or the generic build with the Gorz sided and no or sided ceasefire.

Also, should I main 2 maxx c pre-cardcar, or just side for stuff like wind ups?

You NEED them scarecrows. Without you will not win. Also, Gorz in main is not needed and Maxx C is also dead most of the time. You do not want to draw maxx midgame and battle faders are easily negated. I also do not understand why you would play sangan>jar.
Just play the build i previously posted, trust me

Keizer, 3 thunder short and only 2 one day is horrible.

However, I agree with your sentiments, and I'm going to run a more generic build. Jar hates me, I always have too many draw cards and don't want it flipped, so sangan has been better, in the dark build, anyway.

#166
Keizer

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thats the build i would make with cardcar d. but im not playing that build man!

i play 1 thunder short, 3 days. thinking of adding another thunder short. also, ceasefire is indeed crap.

#167
Keizer

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bump?

#168
PJ

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I'm on the fence about CCD, mainly because if it's worth getting then I'll have to dish out cash and hope they arrive in time for Nats. The Normal Summon in this Devk can be real important if I have to choose between this and Golem in my hand, abs if they have Veiler I'm screwed by playing CCD.

#169
Keizer

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That's why i think the deck has 2 options, and 2 different playstyles.
if u decide to play card car d, you have to play more thunder shorts. its a bit faster, but the most decks play veiler nowadays and without stall, ur fucked.

the other playstyle is just what it is now, regular chainburn with outs to a lot more.

i don't think its worth it to play card car d.

#170
Gojira

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I'm on the fence about CCD, mainly because if it's worth getting then I'll have to dish out cash and hope they arrive in time for Nats. The Normal Summon in this Devk can be real important if I have to choose between this and Golem in my hand, abs if they have Veiler I'm screwed by playing CCD.

The deck works fine without card car d, imo. You really have to know how to play it though, the majority of my losses with it (which are few) are due to misplays.

I've been considering veiler or skill drain in the side, are either of those worth it? I'm running 2 macro, and I don't know if I should add any of those, any shadow-imp, or just a 3rd macro.

I didn't manage to play this at locals, since I arrived a little late I had to play dark world, since it was the only deck I had put together atm.

#171
Keizer

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I'm on the fence about CCD, mainly because if it's worth getting then I'll have to dish out cash and hope they arrive in time for Nats. The Normal Summon in this Devk can be real important if I have to choose between this and Golem in my hand, abs if they have Veiler I'm screwed by playing CCD.

The deck works fine without card car d, imo. You really have to know how to play it though, the majority of my losses with it (which are few) are due to misplays.

I've been considering veiler or skill drain in the side, are either of those worth it? I'm running 2 macro, and I don't know if I should add any of those, any shadow-imp, or just a 3rd macro.

I didn't manage to play this at locals, since I arrived a little late I had to play dark world, since it was the only deck I had put together atm.

same here. miscalculated or mistimed plays are painful, and will make u lose the game.. i mostly lose because of an incorrect timing with reckless greed. only activate it when ur sure u can do enough damage or have enough stall.

as for the sidedeck issues:
i added a 3rd macro in the side. u need them asap vs almost every deck now. i currently also play cyber dragons in side, getting the ojamas+desserts+thunder out gives u 6 spots which i fill with 2 breaker, 2 cydra and 2 mst. i also added gellenduo in the side, so u can give em some damage while attacking. works for me!

#172
confuse rei

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I dont get why u need to run more thunder short if u play card car d... i played 0 before cardcar, i play 0 after cardcar, and i never needed it.

#173
Keizer

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because you will get ur ojama faster.. 1,2k/1,6k/2k damage is good right..

#174
confuse rei

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you will go from 0 to 3 just cuz you're gonna draw a maximum of 6 cards more in a game? And this thinking that no d's will get veilered, tt'd, booked etc. Realistically you will get 1 or 2 d's through, that hardly justifies playing 3 of a mediocre card. Also many times people dark hole/torrential their field of ojamas and maybe a monster so that they clear their slots and avoid the just desserts/barrels hitting them for over 2k, so you have even more cards that lose to that play now.

#175
DarkBlaze557

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In testing, I am agreeing on the sentiments regarding CCD and Morphing Jar.

CCD gets hit by all of the monster hate that everyone mains these days, so its effect doesn't go off regularly and it often gets stuck on the field uselessly. Outside of that, I often end up with it clogging the hand because I'd rather summon Golem that turn or would end up with too many cards in-hand (especially if the timing isn't good to go off).

Morphing Jar can win some games by itself, but I often come into scenarios where I don't want to set it because I drew into Scarecrows that I need to hold onto or because the opponent would benefit too much from the play. Other times, it's easily countered, as they'll read the Morphing Jar and just not attack, allowing it to be open to Veiler/Chain when you flip it on your turn. Or if you choose not to flip it and try to force the damage step effect, they'll wait to attack until they have an answer or set it up so that it benefits them more. Dolkka and Photon Strike Bounzer shit on it (which is why we don't play Marshmallon as well).

There are also times where siding against a side is difficult. The opponent brings in Decrees, I bring in MSTs and Breakers. The opponent brings in Trap Stuns, I'm at a loss. A well-timed Trap Stun can wreck an entire setup mid-chain. Luckily, not a lot of people are siding against this deck, but there are a few that are catching on and expecting it. Some of the synchro players are putting Black-Winged Dragon back in, which is even more difficult to get around.

I think at Nats/Philly, quite a few people are going to be prepared to play against this deck, and we need to make sure we're prepared for that as well.

#176
fanfingtastic

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So regionals this weekend im still messin with the side and I wont jave ccd but here is my list

Monsters 5

1 metaion the tine lord
1 morphing jar
1 swift scarecrow
2 lava golem

Spells 9

3 pot of duality
3 one day of peace
2 chain strike
1 scapegoat

Traps 26

3 accumulated fortune
3 reckless greed
3 dimension wall
3 just dessert
3 secret barrel
2 magic cylinder
2 ojama trio
2 jar of greed
2 legacy of yata garasu
2 threatning roar
1 ceasefire

side deck

1 lava golem
2 arcana force the fool
2 swift scarecrow
2 breaker tge magical warrior
1 prohibition
3 mystical space typhoon
2 dark bribe
2 macro cosmo


If I get ccd by regionals ill be taking out mj scapegoat and d wall gor 3

#177
Gojira

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More scarecrow (or even fade since you're running ceasefire) threatening clogs the, and can be forced to activate at unopportune times.

#178
Keizer

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totally agree. drop roars+ceasefire, add 2 crows+jar. opp who plays to otk always run into crow, which leaves them with a full field of monsters next turn, then u can go for major damage. if u set roar they will play it out differently.

also in the side, add another macro instead of prohibition and drop the arcana's for gellenduo's. i also do not understand why u would run bribes.

1 Lava Golem
1 Gorz
1 Metaion
3 Breaker
2 Gellenduo
3 MST
1 Heavy Storm
3 Macro Cosmos

is what im currently running as a side.

#179
fanfingtastic

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Im already running jar, also if i run cardcar d i will be dropping roars for scarecrows, in a non ccd build i prefer roar as it adds on the chain unlike scarecrow will in mp1....

I wanna drop ceasefire i just currently dont know what for yet.. i dont have gellenduos or else they would be in there which is why im running the fool

Bribes were just something i was testing against heros dw and rabbit



#180
DarkBlaze557

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You can chain to Scarecrow...

#181
Keizer

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Im already running jar, also if i run cardcar d i will be dropping roars for scarecrows, in a non ccd build i prefer roar as it adds on the chain unlike scarecrow will in mp1....

I wanna drop ceasefire i just currently dont know what for yet.. i dont have gellenduos or else they would be in there which is why im running the fool

Bribes were just something i was testing against heros dw and rabbit


vs heros u dont have to side bribes imo,
vs dw you just side macros and win
vs rabbit i go breaker on them

you could also add 2 cyber dragon instead of arcanas. ss dragon + breaker is very nice.

#182
fanfingtastic

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You can chain to Scarecrow...


not in mp 1 where they go to do something and u need to chain all your cards, roar adds to the chain for the chain strike at the end of it, and that 400 has made or breaked me plenty of time, i lost twice at ycs chicago cause i couldnt do 800 more if i run ccd this weekend, i will be taking out the roars for scarecrows though


Im already running jar, also if i run cardcar d i will be dropping roars for scarecrows, in a non ccd build i prefer roar as it adds on the chain unlike scarecrow will in mp1....

I wanna drop ceasefire i just currently dont know what for yet.. i dont have gellenduos or else they would be in there which is why im running the fool

Bribes were just something i was testing against heros dw and rabbit


vs heros u dont have to side bribes imo,
vs dw you just side macros and win
vs rabbit i go breaker on them

you could also add 2 cyber dragon instead of arcanas. ss dragon + breaker is very nice.


ill prolly be taking out the bribes then.... my side might look more like

1 lava golem
1 gorz
2 arcana force the fool
2 swift scarecrow
2 breaker
1 heavy
3 mst
3 macro

hardest deck i have playing against is inzektors.... any tips?

#183
Keizer

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You can chain to Scarecrow...


not in mp 1 where they go to do something and u need to chain all your cards, roar adds to the chain for the chain strike at the end of it, and that 400 has made or breaked me plenty of time, i lost twice at ycs chicago cause i couldnt do 800 more if i run ccd this weekend, i will be taking out the roars for scarecrows though


Im already running jar, also if i run cardcar d i will be dropping roars for scarecrows, in a non ccd build i prefer roar as it adds on the chain unlike scarecrow will in mp1....

I wanna drop ceasefire i just currently dont know what for yet.. i dont have gellenduos or else they would be in there which is why im running the fool

Bribes were just something i was testing against heros dw and rabbit


vs heros u dont have to side bribes imo,
vs dw you just side macros and win
vs rabbit i go breaker on them

you could also add 2 cyber dragon instead of arcanas. ss dragon + breaker is very nice.


ill prolly be taking out the bribes then.... my side might look more like

1 lava golem
1 gorz
2 arcana force the fool
2 swift scarecrow
2 breaker
1 heavy
3 mst
3 macro

hardest deck i have playing against is inzektors.... any tips?


yes inzektor is a pretty bad matchup, but its not ''unwinnable''. i think its 50-50 to win g1, g2 u put cosmos in and an extra golem, and get ur non chainable stuff out. or u can go aggro and put in breakers+cyberdragon+gorz. the aggro strategy is better imo, they dont expect it and have no defense in g2. ss cydra+breaker+cosmos is gg for real.

#184
fanfingtastic

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at ycs chicago, i played inzektors round 1 and won round 4 lost but i feel like i got cheated cuz he literally had a 10 min turn and equipped a couple more times than i thought he did, and in game 3 in the round i lost i misplayed by chaining to early. then in a win a mat i 2-0ed inzektors in the first round....

i feel though i got lucky and its the deck i worry the most about.... at the time i was playing shadow mirrors over macro, but i will be siding in macros now as it hits more decks

#185
Keizer

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Yes with inzektor u have to pay attention as a lot of players cheat with them, especially vs burn!

also vs inzektor, try to stall as much as possible lol. maybe overtime for gg

#186
Gojira

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Yes with inzektor u have to pay attention as a lot of players cheat with them, especially vs burn!

also vs inzektor, try to stall as much as possible lol. maybe overtime for gg


Stalling is cheating too... Unless you just mean saving game for the last moment, which is too risky

#187
Keizer

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Yes with inzektor u have to pay attention as a lot of players cheat with them, especially vs burn!

also vs inzektor, try to stall as much as possible lol. maybe overtime for gg


Stalling is cheating too... Unless you just mean saving game for the last moment, which is too risky

nah im mean more like, think before every move ;p

#188
DarkBlaze557

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Slow play is still frowned upon and can be considered cheating as well.

#189
August

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Yes with inzektor u have to pay attention as a lot of players cheat with them, especially vs burn!

also vs inzektor, try to stall as much as possible lol. maybe overtime for gg


Stalling is cheating too... Unless you just mean saving game for the last moment, which is too risky

nah im mean more like, think before every move ;p

That is pretty much the definition of stalling lol.

#190
PJ

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Yeah don't intentionally stall guys.

#191
Urthor

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Well, final countdown siding into chainburn, devastating in time.

#192
Nace

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Main Deck: 39
2 Lava Golem
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Sangan
3 Swift Scarecrow

2 Chain Strike
3 One Day of Peace
3 Pot of Duality

3 Accumulated Fortune
3 Reckless Greed
2 Jar of Greed
2 Legacy of Yata-Garasu
1 Waboku
1 Threatening Roar
2 Magic Cylinder
2 Dimension Wall
2 Ojama Trio
3 Just Desserts
3 Secret Barrel
1 Empty Slot

Side Deck: 15
3 Inzektor Hornet
3 Inzektor Dragonfly
3 Inzektor Centipede
1 Inzektor Giga Mantis
3 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Heavy Storm
1 Foolish Burial

For the side deck i am thinking of adding in a Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber.
I also don't think i will play cardcar D mainly because it give them a use out of their traps and veiler which could help when playing Ojama Trio, but it seems like to much of a minus now that prio is gone for its effect.

#193
PJ

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Posted Image

How's that? I've decided not to bother with CCD this soon after its release.

#194
Nace

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Im thinking about just running 1 or 2 CCD for Philly. It works well for my side deck plus is a sangan search which i play mainly for the side deck. I think he is too good not to play but if you always open him and they have veiler is kinda sucks.

#195
IAmTheGreat

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Heres the build Im planning on brining to a regional this weekend. Me and 2 buddies are running mirror decks to fuck with people

3x Swift Scarecrow
2x Lava Golem
2x Metaion the Timelord
1x Morphing Jar

3x One Day of Peace
3x Pot of Duality
2x Chain Strike

3x Accumulated Fortune
3x Legacy of Yata-Garasu
3x Jar of Greed
3x Reckless Greed
3x Just Desserts
3x Secret Barrel
2x Ojama Trio
2x Magic Cylinder
2x Dimension Wall

Extra:
2x Chimeratech Fortress Dragon
13x Good LOB and MRD Fusions

Side:
2x Cyber Dragon
x1 Gorz the Emisssary of Darkness
2x Marshmallon/The Fool (Undecided)
2x Breaker the Magical Warrior
3x Mystical Space Typhoon
1x Heavy Storm
1x Dark Hole
3x Macro Cosmos

Obviously dont own Card Car Ds

#196
Keizer

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Think that the above build is the most consistant one. I would -1 metaion +1 scapegoat. Thats my build.

We share the same side, except for dark hole, i have a 2nd metaion instead. Very curious how it will do at the tourney.. Keep me updated lol

#197
DarkBlaze557

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I've changed my stance on Morphing Jar.

Sure, it can be played around, but if it does go off against anything but Dark Worlds, you win. It's like the Future Fusion of Chain Burn.



Also, I've been testing without Cardcar D's to similar results. The deck was undefeated in testing either way, but I feel less clogged without the Cardcar Ds. I dropped all 3 for 2x Metaion 1x Dimension Wall. So my list looks like this:

Spoiler


I really feel that 2 Jar/2 Yata is the best ratio for consistent chains. As such, I opted for Ceasefire and a 3rd Dimension Wall over maxing those out. I really want to squeeze Gorz into the main, though, so I may drop the 3rd Dimension Wall for that.

In the side, I went for The Fool over Marshmallon because of Dolkka. I also don't like that Gellenduo is fragile when in attack mode (though it actually has respectable attack, most monsters will run it over and cause it to kill itself).
I went with Compulsory here to help combat against the opposing side decks. Synchro decks are bringing back Black-Winged Dragon and Dragon decks are siding Prime Material now for this matchup. Compulsory is an answer to both. I only put in 2, as I'm not certain I'll see those cards often, but I'd rather be prepared than caught off-guard. Dark Hole also helps against some of those matchups (though not so much against Dragons).

The rest of the side should be obvious.

#198
IAmTheGreat

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I just like Jar/Legacy because It helps dig for answers/powerful burn cards faster, and with all the one days/scarecrows you can control the pace well enough where they wont be too slow or clog in chains.

#199
fanfingtastic

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So i have my invite, and im going to regionals cuz i have the day off and nothing else to do so i am really thinking about running this just for fun n seeing how it plays out... reason im posting here is it sides into chain strike...

Final countdown

Monsters 12

3 swift scarecrow
3 battle fader
3 card car d
2 lava golem
1 sangan

Spells 16

3 final countdown
3 gold sarcophagus
3 pot of duality
3 upstart goblin
3 one day of peace
1 scapegoat

Traps 12
3 reckless greed
3 thunder of ruler
3 threatning roar
3 waboku

Side 15

2 chain strike
2 messanger of peace
3 mst
2 ojama trio
3 just dessert
3 secret barrel



#200
boltman

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When it comes to Card Car D (I know I'm a bit late on this but I'm going for it) I cant help but think it might not be all that solid in main deck. One of the things that is the most damaging about Chain Burn is that game one it leaves your opponent with dead cards, like Warning, Veiler, and Torrential. While obviously they can play those cards but good luck finding a way for them to not neg themselves when they activate it. Needless to say, those cards get sided out game 2 and 3 for your opponent, so I'd much rather side in Card Car D after all the answers to it have been sided out, then potentially side them back out game 3 just to keep them off balance.

This deck really comes down to it's ability to side and it's ability to keep your opponent's momentum broken and keep them off balance, and siding into and out of Card Car D as opposed to maining them does that better in my honest opinion.




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