243 replies to this topic

[August]

When it comes to Card Car D (I know I'm a bit late on this but I'm going for it) I cant help but think it might not be all that solid in main deck. One of the things that is the most damaging about Chain Burn is that game one it leaves your opponent with dead cards, like Warning, Veiler, and Torrential. While obviously they can play those cards but good luck finding a way for them to not neg themselves when they activate it. Needless to say, those cards get sided out game 2 and 3 for your opponent, so I'd much rather side in Card Car D after all the answers to it have been sided out, then potentially side them back out game 3 just to keep them off balance.

This deck really comes down to it's ability to side and it's ability to keep your opponent's momentum broken and keep them off balance, and siding into and out of Card Car D as opposed to maining them does that better in my honest opinion.

They will just think that you are maining them and keep veilers, tt, book etc in.

I think people should see ccd as a risk vs reward kinda like pot odds in poker.

If you assume your opponent is running 40 cards and 5 outs to ccd on average (not counting warning/solemn) the probability of your opponent having one or more outs is 57,7% on their turn 1, 63,9% turn 2, 69,3% turn 3, 40,4% turn 4 etc. 1/2 veilers out of 2 when you go first = 23,7% and
1/2/3 veilers out of 3 when you go first = 33,8%

For the full picture you would obviously have to calculate the odds of drawing cardcar D, add in jar/pod/reckless/accumulate, the probability of them already having used one of these outs, the disadvantage of having 1 les card vs. the advantage of having 1 more, taking your meta and bad/good matchups into account as well as the disadvantage of not being able to set the cards/summon lava golem etc. etc. (I don't got the time right now xD). My point is instead of just going with what you feel is best it is actually pretty easy to make an educated decision on whether or not to run ccd.

[pyr0]

Main Deck: 39
2 Lava Golem
1 Gorz the Emissary of Darkness
1 Sangan
3 Swift Scarecrow

2 Chain Strike
3 One Day of Peace
3 Pot of Duality

3 Accumulated Fortune
3 Reckless Greed
2 Jar of Greed
2 Legacy of Yata-Garasu
1 Waboku
1 Threatening Roar
2 Magic Cylinder
2 Dimension Wall
2 Ojama Trio
3 Just Desserts
3 Secret Barrel
1 Empty Slot

Side Deck: 15
3 Inzektor Hornet
3 Inzektor Dragonfly
3 Inzektor Centipede
1 Inzektor Giga Mantis
3 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Heavy Storm
1 Foolish Burial

For the side deck i am thinking of adding in a Inzektor Sword - Zektkaliber.
I also don't think i will play cardcar D mainly because it give them a use out of their traps and veiler which could help when playing Ojama Trio, but it seems like to much of a minus now that prio is gone for its effect.

what do you side out when you side in the inzector stuff?

[Gaia]

Now that we are inevitably going to drop the fools/gellenduos from the side due to that photon papi something xyz guy, what do we add in their place ?

[Gojira]

Now that we are inevitably going to drop the fools/gellenduos from the side due to that photon papi something xyz guy, what do we add in their place ?

Snowman eater or penguin soldier, maybe? Papi would activate their effects.

[Gaia]

And then u lose to dolkka. Nah, it has to be something completely different, it sucks, cuz the walls were amazing, but they cant function properly anymore.

I also dropped the breakers from the side since i realized they serve no purpose to the deck. They wont run over anything because they are 1600 (i assume u summon breaker only when u want to kill a decree, and not a moment earlier, but even at 1900 they cant get over shit), and by the time decree is face up you are a lot of the time in a losing position anyway cuz he has chained decree to ur chain so u have lost major advantage. Granted u dont use huge chains when u fear decree with no mst but sometimes this isnt possible, cuz u have to leave a certain ammount of accumulated/chain strikes mained after g1. Double Cyclones are better cuz in this deck it is essentially a mst, so u can chain it to the decree.

Im trying to find some sort of side deck for the deck to convert into something that goes bananas and gets some amount of damage in via battle, cuz everytime i resolve a gorz, i win the game easily, that 2k+ that gorz can get through is always game breaking.

Which brings me to my next subject, and probably the most crucial for the deck, which are everyone's go-to cards when you want to side something out ?

[Gojira]

And then u lose to dolkka. Nah, it has to be something completely different, it sucks, cuz the walls were amazing, but they cant function properly anymore.

I also dropped the breakers from the side since i realized they serve no purpose to the deck. They wont run over anything because they are 1600 (i assume u summon breaker only when u want to kill a decree, and not a moment earlier, but even at 1900 they cant get over shit), and by the time decree is face up you are a lot of the time in a losing position anyway cuz he has chained decree to ur chain so u have lost major advantage. Granted u dont use huge chains when u fear decree with no mst but sometimes this isnt possible, cuz u have to leave a certain ammount of accumulated/chain strikes mained after g1. Double Cyclones are better cuz in this deck it is essentially a mst, so u can chain it to the decree.

Im trying to find some sort of side deck for the deck to convert into something that goes bananas and gets some amount of damage in via battle, cuz everytime i resolve a gorz, i win the game easily, that 2k+ that gorz can get through is always game breaking.

Which brings me to my next subject, and probably the most crucial for the deck, which are everyone's go-to cards when you want to side something out ?

If they have laggia and papi, they likely don't have dolkka, unless it's pretty late in the game...

If they are stupid and just have dollka and papi, who cares?

[PJ]

I'm beginning to question the validity of Metaion in the Main Deck.

The reason a lot of us aren't playing Cardcar D is because it makes opposing dead cards live, like Veiler, TT, Warning etc.

Metaion gets hit by all of these AND the battle protection of D-Prison, Mirror Force etc., not to mention both of the Evolzars.

[dmy]

I'm beginning to question the validity of Metaion in the Main Deck.

The reason a lot of us aren't playing Cardcar D is because it makes opposing dead cards live, like Veiler, TT, Warning etc.

Metaion gets hit by all of these AND the battle protection of D-Prison, Mirror Force etc., not to mention both of the Evolzars.

Pretty much why I never understood why people main Metaion. You can justify maindecking Dimension Walls and Cylinders as they either have to run into it, or play around it - The latter involves them playing a lot more passively which essentially makes just the threat of the Walls/Cylinder act as pseudo stall. Metaion on the other hand makes a whole bunch of shit your opponent wouldn't be able to use otherwise live. You can argue siding it I guess, but that depends on how flexible your sidedeck space is. I used to run no Walls/Cylinders in the main and side into them g2 + Metaion and it did pretty well.

Also Photon Papilloperative is dicks and really shouldn't be underplayed - It wrecks wall monsters. I've been trying to think of substitutes, but most of them just lose to Dolkka as Gaia said.

[IAmTheGreat]

If they want to waste a Veiler on Metaion thats fine with me. He still will buy me a turn of protection. Torrential and Mirror Force do nothing to Metaion, and Warning is great, id love to let them spend 2000 lp to negate his summon.

I ran Chain Strike at my regional yesterday. Went 6-2. Only losses were to a buddy with Inzektors and Fabled maining Decree. Played almost all Inzektors. 1 Chaos Dragon, 1 Rabbit, 1 fabled, 3 Inzektor.

Heres my side

2 Breaker
2 Cyber
1 Gorz
2 The Fool
3 MST
1 Heavy
1 Dark Hole
3 Macro

Breaker was great in the side. I would bring him in, run over a Centipede when they have Decree up, then pop it MP2. Never got a chance to use Fool cuz of what I played, same with Cyber Dragon. Macro wrecked inzektors, but I might cut that down to 2. Heavy and Dark Hole were AMAZING btw. Those cards win games.

I also got 1 Card Car before the tournament and added it in over Jar. I regret doing that, since over half the time my opponent would just Veiler it, which really sucks. And metaion is awesome. I dont know what you guys are on.

[Deadborder]

Dunno how viable it is with our lack of Gustaph but I found siding into Hieratic OTK really threw opponents for a loop G2.

I think I suggested running an Inzektor side earlier in the thread, I suppose it could work.

Any deck that relies mainly on monsters can do it, siding out burn for monsters and keeping in the draw
cards as sort of a turbo.

[Gojira]

If they want to waste a Veiler on Metaion thats fine with me. He still will buy me a turn of protection. Torrential and Mirror Force do nothing to Metaion, and Warning is great, id love to let them spend 2000 lp to negate his summon.

I ran Chain Strike at my regional yesterday. Went 6-2. Only losses were to a buddy with Inzektors and Fabled maining Decree. Played almost all Inzektors. 1 Chaos Dragon, 1 Rabbit, 1 fabled, 3 Inzektor.

Heres my side

2 Breaker
2 Cyber
1 Gorz
2 The Fool
3 MST
1 Heavy
1 Dark Hole
3 Macro

Breaker was great in the side. I would bring him in, run over a Centipede when they have Decree up, then pop it MP2. Never got a chance to use Fool cuz of what I played, same with Cyber Dragon. Macro wrecked inzektors, but I might cut that down to 2. Heavy and Dark Hole were AMAZING btw. Those cards win games.

I also got 1 Card Car before the tournament and added it in over Jar. I regret doing that, since over half the time my opponent would just Veiler it, which really sucks. And metaion is awesome. I dont know what you guys are on.

Would you run jar over card car, or neither? Also, was your main deck pretty generic?

[chuavechito]

I'm beginning to question the validity of Metaion in the Main Deck.

The reason a lot of us aren't playing Cardcar D is because it makes opposing dead cards live, like Veiler, TT, Warning etc.

Metaion gets hit by all of these AND the battle protection of D-Prison, Mirror Force etc., not to mention both of the Evolzars.

Metaion cannot be destroyed. Warning and Judgment are not outs (since they have to pay a lot of life points for 1 card of yours in burn its not a bad trade). The only outs are Fiendish and Prison, and nobody plays them anymore (except for Fiendish but we dont see it much anymore). Veiler is also not an out, it avoids the bounce but they still cant attack next turn (unless they have BLS or Inzektor Exa Stag, but rarely people realize its the out for Metaion and summon other shit instead).

[Gojira]

fiendish chain is the only card to worry about with metaion, really. D prison, yes, but I don't always attack with metaion, even, and no one runs more than 2 d pris, if at all.

[IAmTheGreat]

Id probably run Jar. Its just too good if you get it off. I would drop the Card Car, and for the side Id drop Gorz and 1 Macro for 2 cards, not sure which ones.

[DarkBlaze557]

Spoiler

1x Morphing Jar
2x Lava Golem
2x Metaion the Timelord
3x Swift Scarecrow

3x One Day of Peace
3x Pot of Duality
2x Chain Strike

3x Accumulated Fortune
3x Reckless Greed
2x Jar of Greed
2x Ojama Trio
2x Legacy of Yata Garasu
3x Just Desserts
3x Secret Barrel
1x Ceasefire
2x Magic Cylinder
3x Dimension Wall

15x Random Fusion cards (E-Hero The Shining, Gladiator Beast Gyzarus, etc.)

3x Mystical Space Typhoon
3x Breaker the Magical Warrior
1x Dark Hole
3x Macro Cosmos
3x Arcana Force the Fool
2x Compulsory Evacuation Device

Since I was judging, I had a friend run this deck at Regionals over the weekend. He went x-3 because he was dumb (he would get a chain going, then one of his opponents chained MST targetting his already-activated Secret Barrel, and he didn't calculate the damage like a moron). Outside of that, we found that the deck struggles against Inzektors, as they just explode too fast. Macro Cosmos helps, but they usually side in answers to it. His other loss was to a random deck that mained triple Decree.

He used the Elemental Hero - The Shining trick, setting his extra face-up with that card first. Worked wonders.

He never used the Breakers - MST was able to do the trick most of the time. Trap Stun still wrecks the deck as well. Papilloperative is a hooker, but luckily it wasn't being used too much here just yet.

[Keizer]

since chuave won argentina nats with final countdown (that sides in burn), what are ur opinions on that? since Final Countdown wrecks inzektors easily.

[Gaia]

I would much rather try to convince my opponents that im playing inzektors rather than playing heros, then they shouldnt commit to the field if they dont have the warning and even if they do now i know at the very least how to play my ojama trio (if they dont go faggro im winning even with the worst possible hands the deck can produce). I have no idea how to convince my opponents that im playing inzektors though lol

And am i seriously the only one who hasnt had trouble with inzektors? I fear the dw matchup a lot more cuz they side decrees and go through half their deck in like a turn, or the random chaos dragon deck that will tech the prime material, omg, ive seen so many prime materials on t1 its insane

[Keizer]

i never had problems with dw lol, not even g2. i side 2-3 breaker + 3 mst + macro vs dw, and almost didnt lose a match

[fanfingtastic]

Not to toot my own horn but I did post final countdown sidong into burn last page last week for a regional I top 8 last saturday with.... N noone said anything about it :/

[God of Dark World]

I'm testing Cardcar atm, but I might vut it for 2nd Metaion and 2 Cylinder. I just hate how Cylinder falls to Lance. What's your side? After Heiratics, heres mine:

3 Breaker
3 Maxx "C"
3 Macro
3 MST
1 Gorz
1 Hole
1 Storm

[Gaia]

Double Cyclone > Breaker just because its chainable to the decree, in this deck it is essentially a mystical. And u dont need 3 mst storm and 3 breaker, 7 shit cards to counter 2 decrees when u play that much draw power is uneeded.

And i dont like hole, it means that my deserts and barrels wont hit for as much, i would only side it vs rogue matchups like t.g. that can summon barkion or some shit card that poops on me, but how often do u see that? And even if u see that there is metaion and lava golem

[IAmTheGreat]

Dark Hole is amazing, I dont think youve tested it

[Gaia]

I havent, and i dont see the point. What is good about Dark Hole in this deck?

[DarkBlaze557]

Acts as a pseudo-stall card when opponents set up their whole field to destroy you.
Stops Black-Winged Dragon.
Stops Des Wombat.
Stops Jinzo (yeah, I've been seeing it used more often lately).
Stops Barkion.
Can potentially stop Shi En (if you play it correctly).
Forces early Laggia negations.
Can push for an additional 900 damage with Ojama Tokens (if you need it).


I'm sure there's more.

[Gojira]

Has anyone else tried Hieratic OTK as a smokescreen side? I like it a lot better than inzektors, and Su makes killing decree easy. I just leave a lot of the draw cards in and otk on the second turn pretty consistently.

[Gaia]

Acts as a pseudo-stall card when opponents set up their whole field to destroy you.
Stops Black-Winged Dragon.
Stops Des Wombat.
Stops Jinzo (yeah, I've been seeing it used more often lately).
Stops Barkion.
Can potentially stop Shi En (if you play it correctly).
Forces early Laggia negations.
Can push for an additional 900 damage with Ojama Tokens (if you need it).

I'm sure there's more.

Last one is uneeded as the more the tokens stay on the board the more damage u can do so its only relevant when they are below 1000 and u dont have another burn card, a situation i dont think ive ever been in because when u start burning u either have game secured or the burn card hits for 2k+.

The stuff u mentioned it stops, in all situations lava golem/metaion can do just as well, if not better. And even so, other than Laggia and possibly shien and barkion, the rest u will never see. I have never in my life seen BW dragon nor do i know a deck that can currently spam that many 8 stars that it has room for this, i havent seen des wombat since 2007ish, and i dont know what deck plays jinzo. inzektor cant play it, rabbit cant play it, dragon doesnt need it.

When playing this deck im confident that ill be in the top tables and not the last ones playing vs rogue, or else there is no point in playing this over an established deck that autowins vs rogue. Plus when in a premier event, u can easily be in the last tables all day and still play vs top decks exclusively, and even if u happen to play vs that weird deck that can summon some of those, lava golem/metaion can do it just as well. Unless u are talking about DN. Then u need to take into account stuff like Bambooshoot and Magical Android and idk what else lol.

The most 'relevant' cockblocker is Prime Material, and DH cant stop that. I would first max on Lava Golems, play double Metaion, then consider this card.

[DarkBlaze557]

The only reason I specifically mentioned those other cards that aren't seeing much play is because Chain Burn and Final Countdown are both getting a lot of attention right now. People are going to side some old shit. Better to be prepared than to be caught off-guard.

And yes, Lava Golem/Metaion do the job just as well, but Dark Hole has its situations where it's more useful. Specifically when you haven't drawn into a stall card (which is unlikely, but if you're drawing poorly or your chains are getting disrupted, it happens).

[swap frog]

Felt like running burn again.

7-0 with



And a snapshot of a person getting pissed at metaion.

[Deadborder]

Not a fan of Poison of the Old Man, sure it's an extra link and it can do more than one thing, but you don't want to be burning for 800.

Also, news flash, lots of people get pissed at Chain Burn, and they have some justification for being pissed, so:
- Acting like a tool isn't a good idea
- Showing us your HILARIOUS screencap is the equivalent of posting a screencap of winning with Exodia, there's nothing new to see.
Unless of course you pull out all 5 pieces in your opening hand, but I digress.

[swap frog]

What you didnt see is he knew what metaion did and got more pissed than anyone I've dealt with.

[IAmTheGreat]

Your build is terrible and going 7-0 on DN literally means nothing, especially if you arent playing 2/3s

[swap frog]

Usually if you say a build is terrible you need fixes

Update 15-1

[Gaia]

Pretty much every bad choice u have made in your deck is explained in earlier pages.

[swap frog]

Why am I winning games? I'm confused here...

[IAmTheGreat]

Are you playing 2/3 games with side decks?

Are you playing against good players or bad DN randys?

The fact that youre running 3 Fader, 3 Scarecrow, 2 Roar and 2 Waboku should be proof enough, but the fact that youre running 3 Legacy/1 Jar is horrible (have you read Chain Strike/Accumulated?), and not maxing Duality is retarded

[swap frog]

3 legacy has been fine, yes i do read the cards I use. Stall works well. No I don't play 2/3 with side because I will never run bur IRL again.(Top players side 3 Decree and I hate MST.) So unless I'm missing something(which by the way you're acting I am) please shut up.

[IAmTheGreat]

3 legacy has been fine, yes i do read the cards I use. Stall works well. No I don't play 2/3 with side because I will never run bur IRL again.(Top players side 3 Decree and I hate MST.) So unless I'm missing something(which by the way you're acting I am) please shut up.

So the only reason you run this deck is because you can get easy wins without having to worry about side decks? Thats pretty faggoty

[Canadian]

So unless I'm missing something(which by the way you're acting I am) please shut up.

dude, you need to take advice when it is given. Some person could win with a pile of 60 Vanillas and if they managed to do it "15-1" like you did, it doesn't mean the deck is good. You are not running the optimal build / numbers of cards in your deck.

Or, you could just be the kid who posts a deck and refuses to make any changes and claims its perfect "because my mom says so".

[Deadborder]

I'm thinking of making a big-ass post going through your poorer card choices and showing you how to improve.

I'm also thinking of not doing that and telling you to take your current Watt deck to a YCS, it's obviously way better than any Chain Burn you'll make.

[Keizer]

The dutch nationals are tomorrow, and i'm running this. Still not sure about Scapegoat, or dropping it for a Thunder Short.

Tested it, works frikkin awesome.

Monsters 7:
2 Lava Golem
1 Metaion, the Time Lord
3 Swift Scarecrow
1 Morphing Jar

Spells 9:
3 Pot of Duality
3 One Day of Peace
2 Chain Strike
1 Scapegoat

Traps 24:
3 Accumulated Fortune
3 Just Desserts
3 Secret Barrel
3 Reckless Greed
2 Dimension Wall
2 Jar of Greed
2 Legacy of Yata-Garasu
2 Ojama Trio
2 Magic Cylinder
2 Threatening Roar

Sidedeck 15:
1 Metaion, the Time Lord
1 Lava Golem
1 Gorz, Emmisary of Darkness
2 Cyber Dragon
3 Breaker the Magical Warrior
3 Mystical Space Typhoon
1 Dark Hole
3 Macro Cosmos