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Mermail - Discussion

March 2013

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#1
cottoncandymajinbuu

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Mermail - Discussion
 
Mermails, and the Atlantean support cards the deck uses, are a deck of almost entirely Water monsters that are one of the top contenders of the new format. The Mermail monsters work perfectly with the Atlantean support monsters, using them to make a consistent and lethal deck.
 

300px-MermailAbyssmegalo-ABYR-EN-ScR-1E.

This card is the heart and soul of a Mermail deck, being one of your ideal targets for Linde and allowing you to discard other Water monsters, ideally Atlanteans, to trigger their effects and and search out an Abyss-sphere or Abyss-squal.
 
It also worth noting there is a quick and easy OTK with Megalo:
- Special Summon Megalo
- Normal Summon Deep Sea Diva, which Special Summons Atlantean Marksman
- Tribute Deep Sea Diva to allow Megalo to attack twice
- Marksman attack directly for 1400, bringing out Dragoons with Marksman effect
- Dragoons attack directly for 1800, then Megalo twice for 4800
- 1400 + 1800 + 4800 = 8000
 

300px-MermailAbyssteus-CBLZ-EN-UR-1E.png

Another card that was originally overlooked, this guy is very useful for getting your plays rolling. He is a very good opener with an Atlantean to trigger, and searches out Abysslinde, Abysspike, or Abyssgunde to get your plays rolling.
 

300px-MermailAbyssleed-CBLZ-EN-ScR-1E.pn

Somewhat comparable to Tyannial in Plants, but far easier to get out of your hand in a deck like this. Also doubles as another excellent target for Linde or Sphere, and a great target for Gunde. The effect can be very useful to trade an Abysspike for a card before going into your Rank 7. Be wary of his defense before searching him everytime over Megalo simply because he has more attack, as he can be outed by things Megalo cannot (Maestroke, Book of Moon + Monster, or even a Tsukuyomi).
 

300px-MermailAbysspike-ABYR-EN-R-1E.png

Abysspike is a good target for Linde & Sphere, and allows you to get your deck rolling by searching out Linde, Marksman, Gunde, Undine or whatever you need. A very simple but effective card.
 

300px-MermailAbysslinde-ABYR-EN-UR-1E.pn

Abysslinde is one of the main cards that gives the deck stability, letting you searching out your Level 7s or Pike to get your hand rolling. 
 

300px-MermailAbyssgunde-ABYR-EN-R-1E.png

Abyssgunde was an overlooked card, but with the advent of Abyssteus this card becomes far more consistent. Neat tricks include discarding Gunde + a Level 7 Mermail for Megalo, searching for Megalo and triggering Gunde to get back the Level 7 you just discarded.
 

300px-DeepSeaDiva-SDRE-EN-C-1E.jpg

Tour Guide for Sea Serpents, gets great targets with Marksman/Infantry, and also happens to be searchable with Dragoons. The card is rather self explanatory but nevertheless very good in Mermails.
 

300px-AtlanteanDragoons-SDRE-EN-SR-1E.jp

The heart and soul for the deck, opening with Dragoons + discard outlet drastically increases your chances of winning the game. Searches out Megalo, Heavy Infantry, Marskman, Diva, and Leed. There is absolutely no reason not to run 3 of this card ever.
 

300px-AtlanteanMarksman-SDRE-EN-C-1E.jpg

A great Diva target, good with Teus/Megalo/Pike to clear out backrows and can also be summoned just to push with for damage with Marksman + Dragoons.
 

300px-AtlanteanHeavyInfantry-SDRE-EN-C-1

This card is very good obviously, but the problem is that it isn't always something you want to draw. Unlike Marksman who you can summon for to push, you really can't do a lot with this card by itself. Most builds only play 1 copy to search it when wanted, although if the format develops to a point where almost everything is played face-up more Infantry could be ran.
 

300px-GenexUndine-AP01-EN-SR-UE.png

This card has fallen out of favor due to the advent of Mono Mermail, but Undine itself is still amazing due to the fact you will see Dragoons more frequently. The problem is having to play Genex Controller, drawing Genex Controller, having to summon Genex Controller, and the fact that Genex Controller exists. In spite of that, Undine itself is still an incredible card in this deck.
 

300px-MoulinglaciatheElementalLord-ABYR-

Obviously a very powerful card, but due to the Mono version of the deck not seeing Dragoons as often this card can be inconsistent in that version, which has caused it to be cut in most builds. It is still a ridiculous card and obviously an excellent choice if you play Undine.
 
=====
 
Spells & Traps
 

300px-Abysssphere-ABYR-EN-UR-1E.png

A very nifty card that is searchable via Megalo. Allows to you push for game, setup Xyz/Synchro plays, or even just get an Abysslinde when your opponent attempts to enter their End Phase so you can destroy Abysslinde in the End Phase for a free Mermail monster of your choice.
 

300px-Abysssquall-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png

This card only really shines in the Mono Version, but in Mono it is basically a searchable game ender. Things such as getting back 2 Level 7s and Abysslinde, making a Rank 7 then letting Abysslinde get destroyed in the End Phase will flat out win you games. You would probably never want more than 2 of this card due to the fact it can be dead early game and requires grave setup, plus you can search it with Megalo when you really want it.
 
The rest of your Spell/Trap line will be filled with basic "staple" cards such as Storm/Reborn, and a maybe a few tech cards depending on which you decide to play.
 
=====
 
Notable Extra Deck Cards:
 

300px-MermailAbyssgaios-ABYR-EN-UR-1E.pn

One of the main perks to running Mono over Undine is that you get to make this guy a lot more. This card is good for obvious reasons, and especially effective in the mirror since none of their Level 7 guys or Diva Synchros can attack it while it still has material.
 

300px-Deworlen%2CTigerKingoftheIceBarrie

This card may not seem like much on paper, but it is a very neat and effective card in game. You can do dirty things with like Dewloren + Abyss-sphere, or going Diva into Marksman attack directly get Dragoons, making Dewloren Main Phase 2 to return Marksman to your hand to threaten a set the next turn with Megalo/Teus. Another neat play is to have Dewloren with Abyss-squall, flip Squall for 3 Mermails then return them all to hand for 3500 Dewloren and proceed to combo off on your opponent with a loaded hand. These are just examples of things you can do with Dewloren, there are potentially many more that can come up in games.
 

300px-GungnirDragonoftheIceBarrier-H5SE-

Easy to make with Diva, and you can discard Atlanteans and Gunde to destroy cards and trigger their effects. Simple but effective.
 

300px-AbyssDweller-ABYR-EN-SR-1E.png

In spite of being one of the main anti-Mermail cards, it also happens to be very good in Mermail because you can detach an Atlantean Dragoons and search for Dragoons. Seems awkward to make but between Pike, Dragoons, and Armory Arm it is not overly difficult and obviously is very effective in the mirror ontop of triggering Dragoons.
 

300px-ArmoryArmTU06-EN-R-UE.jpg

If you've ever been hit by Armory Arm + BLS, you know how deadly it can be. Since Megalo's secondary effect lets him attack twice, Armory Arm + Megalo is also very dangerous and can quickly end games. This card's level is also very relevant in making Abyss Dweller with Dragoons.
 
Other usable Extra Deck cards:
Ally of Justice Catastor
Armory Arm
Bahamut Shark
Black Rose Dragon
Daigusto Phoenix
Gachi Gachi Gantetsu
Maestroke the Symphony Djinn
Mermail Abysstrite
Mist Wurm
Number 11: Big Eye
Number 17: Leviathan Dragon
Scrap Dragon
Stardust Dragon
T.G. Hyper Librarian
Wind-Up Zenmaines
 
=====
 
Siding
 
Siding with Mermail can be tricky, since oversiding can result in you weakening the power of the deck too much, which you obviously do not want to do. Your Side is normally going to consist of cards that get rid of your opponent's sided cards (such as Dimensional Fissure, Banisher of the Radiance, etc), cards that help you grind out the game so you can live long enough to see those cards, and cards to stop you from dying in the mirror. 
 
Common Side Deck cards:
Deck Devastation Virus
Dust Tornado
Maxx "C"
Mind Crush
Messenger of Peace
Snowman Eater
Soul Taker
Tragoedia
 
 
Additional notes:
http://articles.alte...es.com/?p=20230 - A very informative article to learn Mermail rulings before playing the deck.

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#2
emblem

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I would mention Bahamut Shark and Abysstrite in the usable Extra Deck cards, Bahamut pitching Dragoons to get Trite is one of the strongest plays you can make (and honestly you probably won't lose if you resolve that) and having something with 2600 Attack shouldn't be discounted either. Dweller, Librarian, Megalo, Gungnir all cap out at 2500 or below, and it gives you an extra big body for xyzing into. The 2800 Defense of Trite is pretty significant as well when it can wall all sorts of opposing monsters, and even if they get rid of it, it just gives you that mermail from grave right back. Good job on thread though :]


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#3
cottoncandymajinbuu

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I would mention Bahamut Shark and Abysstrite in the usable Extra Deck cards, Bahamut pitching Dragoons to get Trite is one of the strongest plays you can make (and honestly you probably won't lose if you resolve that) and having something with 2600 Attack shouldn't be discounted either. Dweller, Librarian, Megalo, Gungnir all cap out at 2500 or below, and it gives you an extra big body for xyzing into. The 2800 Defense of Trite is pretty significant as well when it can wall all sorts of opposing monsters, and even if they get rid of it, it just gives you that mermail from grave right back. Good job on thread though :]

I meant to include them because me and a friend have been testing them out since they seems sick vs. Fire Fist, it just slipped my mind when I got to writing up Extra Deck monsters. Added. The only thing that has bugged me with Bahamut is its a little harder to make since you can't do the Armory Arm Dragoons into it.


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#4
.ben.

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good job on the thread!


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#5
Squiddy

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wat abt molinglace? i no ppl have been falling it out of favor in the no undine deck but its still awsome if u open 2 diva get diva infantry duva marksmon attack for 1400 get dragoon atk for 200 200 1800 den make liberian then armory arm draw 1 overlay for dweller detach dragoon for 5 in grave and serch molinglace
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#6
.ben.

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wat abt molinglace? i no ppl have been falling it out of favor in the no undine deck but its still awsome if u open 2 diva get diva infantry duva marksmon attack for 1400 get dragoon atk for 200 200 1800 den make liberian then armory arm draw 1 overlay for dweller detach dragoon for 5 in grave and serch molinglace

 

That's a good point. If you want to type it out in a less-squiddy fashion, I'll add it to the OP. It defiantly is still a thing for Undine builds. 


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#7
cottoncandymajinbuu

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I'll just add it in a sec.

 

edit: done


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#8
Urthor

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I mean it's an alright intro Pengwan thanks for doing it. There's certainly a lot to expand on if you want to go that far and it's very awkward that I can't contribute since I've more or less posted from my phone for a week.

Probably a more general deck discussion point, but what would be great with these discussions is if the OP updated throughout the format and stuff got edited in. If someone wants to quote Pengwan's post, make edits and add stuff to it then PM it to him to edit in those changes that'd be cool, esp since the deck's gonna change over the course of the format as Ophion and the water elemental dragon bring big changes.
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#9
NetRepTodd

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JBGNcQ4.png

 

Before the other thread was closed and new format thread started, I was in the middle of a discussion with 5 or 6 folk about my list of mermail. I had gotten a few messages for it, so here it is.

 

The monster lineup is pretty standard.  I was playing 3 copies of gunde at first to utilize the mainboard Raigeki break, but i cut down to 2.

 

for the spells, i was trying forbidden lance, didnt like it, took it out.  other than that, my spell lineup is pretty standard as well.  However, i deviate just slightly from the standard.  I run one copy of salvage so that I may re-use cards such as gunde, diva, marksman, etc.  Salvage allows me to add something to my hand to pitch for a megalo or teus, and sometimes I have those rare cases where I have a raigeki break set with salvage in hand, and a gunde + megalo/ leed in the grave.  play salvage, add gunde and another card, blow something up, special a boss monster.

 

for the traps, the three copies of sphere are pretty obvious.  personally, I do not like running just one copy of squall, though I understand the reasoning behind it.  squall is tutorable off of megalo, and can be added from the grave to the hand from leed, if you ever are able to resolve that effect.  The two copies of raigeki break take care of problem cards.  I actually took out the 2 copies of forbidden lance i had previously for these things, and I have not looked back.  Raigeki break acts as a pseudo Dust tornado, as well as spot removal against creatures.  with gunde, RB might as well read "destroy one card on the field.  Then, special summon a boss from the grave".  That leaves me to quickly mention the one copy of torrential tribute.  I like it.  I prefer it over solemn judgment honestly for this format.  Solemn judgement does not stop the summon of megalo, leed, teus, because all of these are activated abilities, not inherant special summons.  Besides, if I am playing against the mirror and I have flipped solemn early game, they could wipe me out of the game at any time because the amount of sheer strength in attack points mermail can drop on board so easily.

 

The side is why I am really posting this build.  

 

Messenger of peace - allows for the grind game against stuff like dino rabbit.  I can stall out for an answer to dolkka.  I also side this in against the mirror.  This may sound nuts, but if I play this card before they do anything, I  will willingly let them drop their nuts on the table. Afterwards, I explode right back, and take whatever they made with my big eye and other things.  sure, that is best case scenario, and this does not come up as much.  Messenger allows me to stall out in the mirror to build up advantage, and macro rabbit.

 

Maxx "c" - this card is good in the mirror, and I hate saying it, but wind-ups aren't dead yet according to a lot of tourny results I have been seeing.  Also, hieratics are a thing.

 

Deck dev - If I can resolve this against the mirror, wind-ups, and rogue decks, I essentially win the game.  being able to see everything they have for 3 turns along with destroying cards that they havn't even committed to the board yet is just too good.

 

Tragoedia - This cards 3 effects do a few things for me.  In the mirror, this card will protect me againt opposing Gaios, as well as acts as an answer to them (as long as I conserve a minimum of 5 cards against them)  This card makes Deck dev live for me, or at least helps make it live, along with lib and catastor.  I can take opposing mermails with my own, and overly / sync with them.  

 

Bottomless - I feel like the deck needs to evolve into a more protective build.  I have seen a lot of problems lately where people just get blown out of the water because they can't stop a creature from hitting board.  I side this in against brofists and dino rabbit, and depending who goes 1st games 2 and 3 in the mirror.

 

Mind crush is almost always live in the mirror and in the prophecy matchup.  That in itself merits running 3 copies.

 

the soul takers take care of problem cards.  These were snowman eaters at first, but the more I realized Dolkka existed, the more I just wanted a one card out to it.  Chaos dragons are also played, and this also destroys opposing abyssGaios.

 

 


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#10
E-Van

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2nd Big Eye is definately needed I realized tonight after playtesting a bunch and going to locals as well, too many times I could have used another one.


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#11
Wi315687

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Monsters(25)
3 megalo
3 linde
3 teus
3 dragoons
3 diva
3 marksman
3 gunde
2 pike
1 leed
1 infantry

Spells(8)
3 mst
1 vortex
1 heavy
1 hole
1 reborn
1 poa

Traps(7)
3 sphere
2 torrential
1 break
1 squall

Side deck(15)
3 crush
2 trag
2 maxx c
2 dust
2 messenger of peace
2 sim
2 imps

Extra(15)
2 gaios
2 big eye
1 dewloren
1 zenmaines
1 gungnir
1 librarian
1 dweller
1 mist wurm
1 trite
1 catastor
1 armory
1 bahamut
1 scrap


This is what I have been testing, no one expects the vortex
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#12
Squiddy

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Monsters(25)
3 megalo
3 linde
3 teus
3 dragoons
3 diva
3 marksman
3 gunde
2 pike
1 leed
1 infantry

Spells(8)
3 mst
1 vortex
1 heavy
1 hole
1 reborn
1 poa

Traps(7)
3 sphere
2 torrential
1 break
1 squall

Side deck(15)
3 crush
2 trag
2 maxx c
2 dust
2 messenger of peace
2 sim
2 imps

Extra(15)
2 gaios
2 big eye
1 dewloren
1 zenmaines
1 gungnir
1 librarian
1 dweller
1 mist wurm
1 trite
1 catastor
1 armory
1 bahamut
1 scrap


This is what I have been testing, no one expects the vortex

 

so far ur 2 /3 posts hav been ramdom decklists in deck discusion lol

 

but how is vortex relevent when u dont use controllers ? what r u discarting 


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#13
Seerus

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Gunde


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#14
Wi315687

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Gunde, you are right as far as posting only my deck list, I am on here reading and listening, I however have noticed that cj and victor on this thread posting, vortex was originally in the deck for wind ups and the shock lock but it still offers utility to my deck.
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#15
Shmurda Seen

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I mean it's an alright intro Pengwan thanks for doing it. There's certainly a lot to expand on if you want to go that far and it's very awkward that I can't contribute since I've more or less posted from my phone for a week.

Probably a more general deck discussion point, but what would be great with these discussions is if the OP updated throughout the format and stuff got edited in. If someone wants to quote Pengwan's post, make edits and add stuff to it then PM it to him to edit in those changes that'd be cool, esp since the deck's gonna change over the course of the format as Ophion and the water elemental dragon bring big changes.


really tho


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#16
Twitter

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anyone else been siding Fiendish Chain? It's not totally dead when you have access to Dewlorean and you can just bounce them back if they're floating. 


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#17
Scalding Tarn

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Just wondering, why is everyone transitioning into trap-heavy builds? It seems to me that this would be suboptimal compared to builds that don't run many traps. With WU not being as much of a thing, and FF taking the spot as top contender to dethrone Water (and Rabbit having the 2nd best matchup), it seems like having a deck more focused on aggression for G1 would be best, since you aren't really worried about losing on their first attacking turn. Siding into traps isn't bad by any means, but I'd think preventing things like G1 opening Megalo with all spells and traps or just opening awkward hands in general with not enough water monsters seems like it wouldn't be good. Especially considering most players will blind MST game 1 not knowing what you're playing, playing cards like Force, Chain, etc that don't really do much to further you winning, just seems off to me.
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#18
JustBeKrillin

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No I main Fiendish Chain. It's too good.


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#19
Spooderman

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Just wondering, why is everyone transitioning into trap-heavy builds? It seems to me that this would be suboptimal compared to builds that don't run many traps. With WU not being as much of a thing, and FF taking the spot as top contender to dethrone Water (and Rabbit having the 2nd best matchup), it seems like having a deck more focused on aggression for G1 would be best, since you aren't really worried about losing on their first attacking turn. Siding into traps isn't bad by any means, but I'd think preventing things like G1 opening Megalo with all spells and traps or just opening awkward hands in general with not enough water monsters seems like it wouldn't be good. Especially considering most players will blind MST game 1 not knowing what you're playing, playing cards like Force, Chain, etc that don't really do much to further you winning, just seems off to me.

because cards like dolkka, dweller and raioh still exist


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#20
Asura • The Fearful One

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Just wondering, why is everyone transitioning into trap-heavy builds? It seems to me that this would be suboptimal compared to builds that don't run many traps. With WU not being as much of a thing, and FF taking the spot as top contender to dethrone Water (and Rabbit having the 2nd best matchup), it seems like having a deck more focused on aggression for G1 would be best, since you aren't really worried about losing on their first attacking turn. Siding into traps isn't bad by any means, but I'd think preventing things like G1 opening Megalo with all spells and traps or just opening awkward hands in general with not enough water monsters seems like it wouldn't be good. Especially considering most players will blind MST game 1 not knowing what you're playing, playing cards like Force, Chain, etc that don't really do much to further you winning, just seems off to me.

because cards like dolkka, dweller and raioh still exist

 

Once they see you're playing Water, no one blind spaces any of your Sets, so cards like Mirror Force are really good imo, because people will try to save the MST for when you flip Sphere, which leads to them walking monsters into Mirror Force.

 

I almost think that this Deck can't compete anymore tho. Now that WU has been knocked down a peg, and that Fire Fist is a thing, everyone Sides 2-3 Banisher and 2-3 D-Fissure. Unless you open up with all your outs in games 2 and 3, it's such an uphill battle. This Deck may have the most ridiculous game 1, but it seems like you have to transition Side now and can't really play Water as we know it in games 2-3.


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#21
KidFlash

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Just wondering, why is everyone transitioning into trap-heavy builds? It seems to me that this would be suboptimal compared to builds that don't run many traps. With WU not being as much of a thing, and FF taking the spot as top contender to dethrone Water (and Rabbit having the 2nd best matchup), it seems like having a deck more focused on aggression for G1 would be best, since you aren't really worried about losing on their first attacking turn. Siding into traps isn't bad by any means, but I'd think preventing things like G1 opening Megalo with all spells and traps or just opening awkward hands in general with not enough water monsters seems like it wouldn't be good. Especially considering most players will blind MST game 1 not knowing what you're playing, playing cards like Force, Chain, etc that don't really do much to further you winning, just seems off to me.

because cards like dolkka, dweller and raioh still exist
 
Once they see you're playing Water, no one blind spaces any of your Sets, so cards like Mirror Force are really good imo, because people will try to save the MST for when you flip Sphere, which leads to them walking monsters into Mirror Force.
 
I almost think that this Deck can't compete anymore tho. Now that WU has been knocked down a peg, and that Fire Fist is a thing, everyone Sides 2-3 Banisher and 2-3 D-Fissure. Unless you open up with all your outs in games 2 and 3, it's such an uphill battle. This Deck may have the most ridiculous game 1, but it seems like you have to transition Side now and can't really play Water as we know it in games 2-3.

I think I have come to this conclusion as well unfortunately.
  • -1

#22
Scalding Tarn

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Just wondering, why is everyone transitioning into trap-heavy builds? It seems to me that this would be suboptimal compared to builds that don't run many traps. With WU not being as much of a thing, and FF taking the spot as top contender to dethrone Water (and Rabbit having the 2nd best matchup), it seems like having a deck more focused on aggression for G1 would be best, since you aren't really worried about losing on their first attacking turn. Siding into traps isn't bad by any means, but I'd think preventing things like G1 opening Megalo with all spells and traps or just opening awkward hands in general with not enough water monsters seems like it wouldn't be good. Especially considering most players will blind MST game 1 not knowing what you're playing, playing cards like Force, Chain, etc that don't really do much to further you winning, just seems off to me.

because cards like dolkka, dweller and raioh still exist

 
Once they see you're playing Water, no one blind spaces any of your Sets, so cards like Mirror Force are really good imo, because people will try to save the MST for when you flip Sphere, which leads to them walking monsters into Mirror Force.
 
I almost think that this Deck can't compete anymore tho. Now that WU has been knocked down a peg, and that Fire Fist is a thing, everyone Sides 2-3 Banisher and 2-3 D-Fissure. Unless you open up with all your outs in games 2 and 3, it's such an uphill battle. This Deck may have the most ridiculous game 1, but it seems like you have to transition Side now and can't really play Water as we know it in games 2-3.


I have to respectfully disagree. While it is most definitely true that anyone who can side Dfissure/Banisher/Macro is siding them, I certainly don't view it as an unwinnable prospect. It's also true that players will walk right into Mirror Force (one of my favorite plays being pitch for Megalo, grab Sphere, set Force after you attack or do whatever), I don't think Mirror Force is conducive to the game 1 winning strategy. It's because of this that I play the 2nd Infantry, because it does what your Mirror Force probably would have, kills their monster to pave the way for 8k damage. If I considered any traps in addition to the 3 Sphere and 1 Judgment that I currently play, it would probably be Raigeki Breaks, just because they are mained out to decks that will undoubtedly main the Dfissures where possible, and it pitches Gunde to put damage on board, and it's chainable. My initial hypothesis that "you can play unchainable traps because they won't MST them" is both correct and incorrect. In addition to making their Heavy Storms much better, you're sacrificing damage on board. Sure Dolkka, Raioh, etc are cards, and we have to remain cognizant of this when building the deck, but we do play mained outs to these cards in spheres, hole, etc., and believe it or not, running Salvages mitigates the pain of Dolkka if you do have to minus yourself getting it off the board.

Postboard, if you're siding correctly, you should definitely have multiple outs to all of these cards that crap on water. There really are only 2 different strategies to side against: the anti-water strategy and the mirror. That leaves a ton of leeway as far as siding is concerned, and allows you to dedicate 10+ cards to your worst matchups. Believe it or not, your strategy is not nearly as watered down as you might think. There isn't a card in the deck short of Dragoons that isn't searchable in some capacity, and if you're essentially auto-winning game 1 vs everything isn't the mirror or are decks that main their anti-water sideboard cards, I don't see how winning 1 of the next 2 games is that much of a tall order. You have to factor in the amount of people you're going to face that A. Are bad, B. Will misplay, and C. Will draw poorly. It's because of this that I feel like a strictly dedicated, consistent game 1 build with minimal traps is the way to go.
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#23
Slashtap

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2nd Big Eye is definately needed I realized tonight after playtesting a bunch and going to locals as well, too many times I could have used another one.

 

I am constantly astounded at the "truths" people will conclude for themselves without questioning whether there is anything imperfect in their play.

 

"X card needs to be run at X copies because I needed X copies, and I'm not going to question my play instead of my build" has been an ongoing theme in this and the previous thread.


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#24
Mark23

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You guys do realize trap heavy builds lose out to non trap heavy builds right? While you're drawing your traps they're drawing their Monsters to continue to be aggressive as well as giving them more Marksman targets. So essentially you are all giving yourself better match ups for decks you already have a good match up against aka fire fist.. There is so little Rabbit running around because of the fact that it gets straight shit on by Fire Fist.

For everyone who is saying that the deck isn't viable because of all the Banisher and D-Fissures going around right now then you are clearly doing something wrong, it's still not that hard to come back from as long as you are siding and playing correctly. You should focus on your plays more than your build when you lose those games, then if you figure out there was nothing else you could have done that's when you start looking at your build to see if there is anything that maybe should be changed. You can't always blame the deck for you losing when you can often times do something about it by doing different/ more optimal plays. 
 


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#25
Asura • The Fearful One

Asura • The Fearful One

    bitches be tribbin

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I wouldn't consider my build Trap heavy.. I play 3 Sphere, 1 Judgment, 2 Mirror Force.

 

After testing with/against an anti-anti-Water transition Side, the anti-Water transition Side loses to Messenger, Traps, and general stall, Messenger especially. Once you have like, Messenger + Snowman or something, you can just sit back and wait to draw into removal so that you can make your push(es), and deck-out is also highly possible. IDK if I'd want to transition Side, but I found like 10 cards that I really wanted to Side: 3 Messenger, 2 Snowman, 1 Soul Taker, 1 Twister, 2 Dust Tornado.


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#26
Twitter

Twitter

    O sea, fresa fresa pero no para tu mermelada

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why not jut side 3 dust tornado instead of 2 dust tornado and 1 twister?


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#27
Asura • The Fearful One

Asura • The Fearful One

    bitches be tribbin

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why not jut side 3 dust tornado instead of 2 dust tornado and 1 twister?

 

The idea of Twister is for it be aggressive on the draw. Sure, Setting Dust Tornado has the possibility of getting End Phase MST'd in an attempt to preemptively strike a Sphere, but it forces you to be passive with your turn. If I draw Dust Tornado and have an aggressive hand, I don't really want to Set it and pass, giving my opponent a chance further their position. If I have an aggressive hand and I draw Twister, I can use the Twister to hit the Fissure/Macro and go on with my turn. You do play 3 MST and 3 Marksman already, plus Storm, so the extra 3 cards would make %25 of your Deck back-row removal, even if you use %5 of that for Diva plays. I did swap out the Twister for a 2nd Deck Dev, though I'm not sure if that's gonna stay that way. I have never resolved a Deck Dev.


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#28
Exhale

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this thread is hilarious
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#29
Scalding Tarn

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I co-sign on the Twister idea. Generally you're going to save your MSTs and dusts for the continuous spells and traps anyways post board, so twister lets you do what you were going to do with it anyways, except for a turn faster. Macro is usually pre-emptively flipped anyways, so all you're really worried about as far as side cards are concerned is Soul Drain. You generally don't mind 1-for-1 trading with their traps, since you're coming out ahead on the exchange in all cases where they don't have a continuous spell or trap active.

I'm going to test the idea of Messengers. My worry is that in slowing the game down so drastically, they'll just draw enough of their side that you can't possibly have enough answers. At the same time though, you can summon dragoons and just attack directly with Marksmen (a feasible win condition). We have to realize that even if they have like Banisher with Soul Drain and Dfissure out, a simple Dragoons outs that and presents an actual threat, since they have so much continuous side hate for water, basic monster with high attack that don't use the grave are serious threats if people over side for you and don't have enough actual removal.
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#30
Slashtap

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this thread is hilarious

 

Next level hilarious.  Like I am 100% hoping to play these people at Austin.  Well, everyone except Mark.


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#31
Mark23

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this thread is hilarious

 

Next level hilarious.  Like I am 100% hoping to play these people at Austin.  Well, everyone except Mark.


I don't understand why you would want to face them D: is this sarcasm? i think it is
 


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#32
Get With It

Get With It

    have you gotten with it yet?

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am i the only person having universally less success with mono? like it's obviously explosive, and maybe it's just dumb luck or my area's metagame, but i just find the undine version a lot more consistent..the controllers never seem to be that big of a setback for me..am i alone on this?


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#33
xthePrezident

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I have not dropped Undine yet, too good. I definitely agree with Lux about the post side argument. I made a joke with him at the reg saying if your opponent can get by the infinite amount of cards sided, then kudos to them. 

 

I can't even respond to the comment on Mermail falling off or not being a top contender :)


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#34
Get With It

Get With It

    have you gotten with it yet?

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I just feel like when I'm playing the Undine version, I have more "lesser" options if you know what I mean. Like every play in mono seems to be oriented towards the same thing..it isn't bad by any means, and I am not intending to say I think it's shit or that Undine is better or anything like that..I just feel like the Undine version has more plays to make without fully committing whereas when I play mono..I'm generally going all out or not at all.


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#35
neptune

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merms are definitely good lol.

 

it isn't falling out of favor ever as long as dragoons is at 3.


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#36
ChesterWinchester

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I got in some solid play testing vs the mirror tonight, because I have a case tournament tomorrow. I was playing Undine, and I didn't drop a single game. I just wanted to test Undine so I could weigh the pros and cons. I like both versions, but I think I'm gonna go with Undine tomorrow. The deck just kept me in advantage virtually all the time. I'm sold on the fact that both builds are great, but in their own way.


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#37
thefazn

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the problem with the undine build is that fire fist have a distinct advantage with it, that it doesnt gain with mono mermail... i agree that the undine build has its perks but with the capability of bringing a mermail beater on board basically each turn with mono, wrecks fire fist and not to metion the easy abyssgaios plays


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#38
Squiddy

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    well plaid. (sorry that happind )

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probably not useing this deck for austin so i will say dis

thru testing fragrence is almost auto win vs fire fist if u go 1st
and auto win 100% vs DARK WORLD

its like basicaly a imperial order at 3

tht is all
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#39
E-Van

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Thoughts on this, its been testing fantastically, but I still have issues with what I am supposed to side out of the main because I don't wanna over side and dilute the power of the main deck. Against the d fissure based decks its been pretty easy, but the mirror I am still trying to get down pat.

 

Monsters(25)

3 Abyssmegalo

3 Abyssteus

3 Abysslinde

3 Abysspike

3 Atlantean Dragoons

3 Atlantean Marksman

3 Deep Sea Diva

2 Abyssgunde

1 Atlantean Heavy Infantry

1 Abyssleed

 

Spells(9)

3 MST

1 Storm

1 Hole

1 Mind Control

1 Reborn

1 Salvage

1 Pot of Avarice

 

Traps(6)

3 Abyss-Sphere

1 Torrential Tribute

1 Mirror Force

1 Abyss-Squall

 

Side:15

2 Tragoedia

2 Mind Crush

2 Bottomless Trap Hole

2 Maxx C

2 Messenger of Peace

1 Overworked

2 Soul Taker

2 Dust Tornado

 

Extra is pretty standard although I don't play baha/trite, I play Acid golemn and possibly a 2nd big eye( still working on this one)

 


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#40
E-Van

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And as far as not making the optimal plays or something wrong with my build, It's been working fine for me, and I will admit I made a few errors at the regionals on last saturday, but I haven't really played since Nat's last year so I am trying to get myself up to snuff and I am all ears for if you want to correct anything or offer suggestions. If your wondering why Acid Golemn, its because its a non negate able out to gaios. I am still going to test stuff like rageki break etc mostly due to the fact that main deck outs to certain cards can be really powerful.


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