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Mermail - Discussion

September 2013

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1324 replies to this topic

#1241
th3m3rc

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How do you guys feel about cutting leed to play lance over mst. Or alongside MST. I feel that 2 marksman is the correct number along with 1 copy of salvage. Im not to sure on the ratios of lance and mst though. I do feel if we are playing 2-3 lance that leed is moderately pointless.
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#1242
nut master

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How about you fuck off with that lance bulslhit. You have enough destruction cards in this deck with mst, infantry and marksmans along with the atlanteans being reused with salvage and turge. 


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#1243
James Morton

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Edit: (accidental post, apologies)


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#1244
Lang

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I love the idea of Debris and Fog King. Only issue is the extra deck space =\, especially with Diva in there also
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#1245
James Morton

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6aOeU.jpg
 

Here's the list I've been trying at locals, and I've been doing fairly well with it.
 

  • Megalo: I run triple Megalo because without Tidal, I like three to facilitate Rank 7 plays. I like to see it more than I used to.
  • Turge: Turge allows for recycling of the one Deep Sea Diva as well as your Infantries and can allow some very unfair things if combo'd with Gunde and a Pike in the graveyard. Having an infantry in the graveyard with this play is icing on the cake.
  • Aqua Spirit and Abyssocea: I run two Aqua Spirits and Ocea in the main for the broken Bahamut Angineer play. If you don't draw that well, Ocea allows for an opening like Zenmaines and Linde which is very good. As the very least, Ocea can tutor Linde from the deck with a less-than-optimal hand.
  • Creature Swap: This card is the absolute stones in this deck. If you don't like this card, you've never seen the look on somebody's face when you give them a Linde and take their bigger monster (If it's Crimson Blader, extra lulz). I side a second one for Bujin and decks that make Crimson Blader.
  • Mystical Space TyphoonI feel like this card is necessary at 3 now, alongside three Marksman (great against Geargia and GK's). Space alone is great for Fire Fists, (gotta hit that Tenki) and great against Spellbooks and GK's for their field spell. Backrow is what holds this deck back from putting well over game on board each turn. Being able to put pressure on board along with getting rid of problem backrow (or forcing premature use of it) is what I think this deck does better than any other one. Maining 3 to hit things like Decree, Soul Drain, D-Fissure, and Macro lurking in random rogue/anti-meta decks is good as well. I side 3 Dust Tornado for anything I suspect may side those 4 cards, because the latter three simply prevent you from playing Yugioh.
  • Dark Hole: I think Dark Hole is good again. With the relative lack of Dragon Rulers in the meta, your field is much more important and less... temporary? Dark Hole is once again a game changing card that I think should come out of the side deck.
  • Abyss-Squall: [TESTING] Not quite sure about this card. It's a +2 if used optimally, which is late game. It's a massive momentum shift that lets you bring out any Xyz from your extra deck (as well as getting a linde effect off, OR coupled with a normal summon, a second Xyz) but it only obviously works late game. It is a dead draw early game and requires a bit of setup. I play one copy because it's really good, and I'm testing it atm.

  • Traps: I play the four one-of traps Torrential Tribute, Mirror Force, Bottomless Trap Hole, and Solemn Warning to help back up the powerful boards this deck produces and to deal with threats the opponent places on board. I opted not to use Compulsory Evacuation Device because of the lack of things to return in bad situations. Yamato? Bear? Megalo or Teus? Armor? It's still a very good out to Extra Deck cards and it is of course chainable to opponent's destruction effects so I would like some input on the use of Compulsory. 

  • Extra Deck: Should be pretty standard, I play only Armades as my level 5 because the primary reason to play that OR Catastor is Yamato, and Armades is simply better for that. Other monster threats can be dealt with with Kappa which provides more synergy. Black Rose is nuts in the deck, all you need is Diva and an Atlantean.

  • Side Deck: Self explanatory. Side third Infantry for Evilswarms. Encore for Evilswarms, Constellars, and Dragon Rulers (or anything else that makes Felgrand). Overworked for Fire Fists, Inzektors, and maybe Noble Knights. Second Creature Swap for Noble Knights and Bujins. DNA Surgery for Bujins and Prophecy. Imperial Iron Wall for Prophecy, Dragon Rulers, and maybe Bujins. And finally, Dust Tornado for super backrow heavy decks, as well as things suspected to main/sideboard any of the floodgate "can't play Yugioh" cards.

Any comments or suggestions are welcome, this is a new build I'm testing and I want input and criticism. I think this deck has a lot of potential this format, despite the hits on the F/L list. Reason being is because the floodgate cards to stop it are all limited, and it has one of the most powerful removal engines in the game, as well as pumps out Rank 4's and 7's, and as a very powerful boss monster for each of those types. (Bahamut Shark and Mermail Abyssgaios). Thanks guys!

 first duelistgroundz post, no h8 pls  :O

 

 


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#1246
Jackson Spadaro

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Doesn't Gorz conflict with Sphere?

i havent found it to do so much.

it has been working really well for me, a lot of people have forgotten about it over the last 2 formats

Ye gorz is so much better than a real trap vs spellbooks, fire fist, the mirror, and geargia. Oh wait not it isn't xD

 

also @th3m3rc i accidentally pos'd you instead of negging. Leed is un-cuttable imo. The amount of times i use the ditching effect is a lone enough of a reason to keep him, he's also a beat stick. Lance is also pretty aids


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#1247
James Morton

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Doesn't Gorz conflict with Sphere?

i havent found it to do so much.

it has been working really well for me, a lot of people have forgotten about it over the last 2 formats

Ye gorz is so much better than a real trap vs spellbooks, fire fist, the mirror, and geargia. Oh wait not it isn't xD

 

also @th3m3rc i accidentally pos'd you instead of negging. Leed is un-cuttable imo. The amount of times i use the ditching effect is a lone enough of a reason to keep him, he's also a beat stick. Lance is also pretty aids

 

A lot of people at my locals seem to think maining Gorz is a good idea, alongside Maxx C to draw into it. I just don't see it. With the decks that Water will have to deal with primarily, it doesn't seem like too smart of a choice. It gets Bear'd or World'd or just beat over.


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#1248
YourYugiohGuide

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yeah i agree, in my opinion everything is highly reliant on just getting linde off to get the plays going. When you open a hand with Gorz you almost instinctively want to play with it, by either setting MST pass or something along those lines. It doesn't actually have any good uses aside from "preventing OTKS" which we already have sphere, linde, gundes, and more to do such a thing. It's also inherently bad against fire fist and books and decks along those lines. I would much prefer a real trap than a hand trap any day.

 

Also whats everybody's thoughts on abyssdine? Opening up the rank 3 plays is pretty good so far from testing its been really good or really bad for me.


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#1249
James Morton

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yeah i agree, in my opinion everything is highly reliant on just getting linde off to get the plays going. When you open a hand with Gorz you almost instinctively want to play with it, by either setting MST pass or something along those lines. It doesn't actually have any good uses aside from "preventing OTKS" which we already have sphere, linde, gundes, and more to do such a thing. It's also inherently bad against fire fist and books and decks along those lines. I would much prefer a real trap than a hand trap any day.

 

Also whats everybody's thoughts on abyssdine? Opening up the rank 3 plays is pretty good so far from testing its been really good or really bad for me.

I played Abyssdine for a little while. Being able to summon it off Linde turn 1 and then make an Angineer turn 2 and go off making plays is pretty nice. The problem was drawing it. It provided such little use in my hand, and even when I got it in grave I would always rather Gunde back something else.


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#1250
Vice Captain Satchmo

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Here's a list I've done a little bit of testing with and one I'll probably keep testing for a while.
Spoiler

>card choices

>Max Atlanteans: I chose this because the format is undefined, and I felt like I'd rather be over prepared than underprepared. I definitely wanted 3 Marks mained for the Geargia match-up and for decks running a lot of backrow (or rogue ghostricks) so I can combo off safely. On the other hand, Infantry is rediculously good at breaking up established fields after my opponent goes off, so I wanted to have access to it as much as possible and just side it out games 2/3 against decks where it's lackluster. I could certainly drop it to 2 if I feel it's not doing enough. I'd probably try lighting vortex in it's place if I did.

>Fishborg Archer: Card is surprisingly good. I'd go as far as to say it's the stones with Gunde in hand. Archer to discard Gunde with Pike/Turge in grave is a 1 card Black Rose/Gungnir, and you can do it again next turn if you resolved the effect of Pike/Turge to get another Gunde. Honestly, if i had more space in the extra, the first card going in would be a second Black Rose/Gungnir just because of how easily Archer makes them. It also makes Gunde into 2 pieces of the Angineer Combo, being a level 3 or can go into Zenmaines to pop a card without summoning it in attack, and can do all of this without your normal summon. It's also a free Atlantean trigger in dire times and is searchable off pike when needed.

>Salvage: It might not make sense with maxed Atlanteans, but I'm not running it for that Atlantean access. I want salvage to recycle Gunde as much as possible, because Gunde is undeniably the best card in the deck and I want it in hand almost constantly. I sometimes find myself without access to her, and resolving Sturge for her isn't always an option since you'll ussually be using Gunde to get to him. I may lower the Atlantean count since I'm running Salvage, but I'd almost always rather Salvage for 2 Gunde. Also has Diva/Linde applications which can come up occasionally.

>Foolish: Started with wanting the Tidal/Archer access, honestly the cards been ok. Happy when I have it, ussually the last card I want to see other than leed when I don't. This would be the first card I'd drop from my deck and certainly one of the weaker cards, but the only card I'd want in it's place Hole. But i feel as though this deck can deal with big fields already and Hole is a card I don't to see against books since Wisdom is a very real thing.

Or that's what I would've said, but then I realized how sub-par Foolish is writing this out and dropped it for Hole. May go back in later.

>Dewloren: Card is not as good as it was with 1 Diva/Dragoons, it's really only good if I hit direct with marksman>Dragoons. All the other situations it's good in are too niche and if I needed a 25 beater, Leviathan Dragon would be better to make with Acher since it stays at 25 and has less niche applications with Marksman.

>Laval Chain: Extra Deck is tighter than a virgin's pussy sown shut. Would likely be the second card I added to the extra after a third 7.

>Undine: Controller is a bad card and outclassed by Archer, Undine is a card that searches for a bad card. All together, my only incentive to run Undine would be Dragoons access, but I don't think it's that crucial that I need to run multiple bad cards to facilitate 1 good card. Tidal and Archer are accessable through Foolish, a card I already dropped.

>Creature Swap: card is definitely good, but deck space doesn't allow it. It'd probably be the first card I add/41st card though, the interaction with Linde, Archer and Trite along with making dead Infantries or negated Divas into boss monsters are just too good.

additional notes
>After more in depth testing, I may swap Bottomless for a second DWrath
>Side deck is very unfinished. I don't really have anything notable there right now, will post when I finish it.
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#1251
James Morton

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Here's a list I've done a little bit of testing with and one I'll probably keep testing for a while.

Spoiler

>card choices

>Max Atlanteans: I chose this because the format is undefined, and I felt like I'd rather be over prepared than underprepared. I definitely wanted 3 Marks mained for the Geargia match-up and for decks running a lot of backrow (or rogue ghostricks) so I can combo off safely. On the other hand, Infantry is rediculously good at breaking up established fields after my opponent goes off, so I wanted to have access to it as much as possible and just side it out games 2/3 against decks where it's lackluster. I could certainly drop it to 2 if I feel it's not doing enough. I'd probably try lighting vortex in it's place if I did.

>Fishborg Archer: Card is surprisingly good. I'd go as far as to say it's the stones with Gunde in hand. Archer to discard Gunde with Pike/Turge in grave is a 1 card Black Rose/Gungnir, and you can do it again next turn if you resolved the effect of Pike/Turge to get another Gunde. Honestly, if i had more space in the extra, the first card going in would be a second Black Rose/Gungnir just because of how easily Archer makes them. It also makes Gunde into 2 pieces of the Angineer Combo, being a level 3 or can go into Zenmaines to pop a card without summoning it in attack, and can do all of this without your normal summon. It's also a free Atlantean trigger in dire times and is searchable off pike when needed.

>Salvage: It might not make sense with maxed Atlanteans, but I'm not running it for that Atlantean access. I want salvage to recycle Gunde as much as possible, because Gunde is undeniably the best card in the deck and I want it in hand almost constantly. I sometimes find myself without access to her, and resolving Sturge for her isn't always an option since you'll ussually be using Gunde to get to him. I may lower the Atlantean count since I'm running Salvage, but I'd almost always rather Salvage for 2 Gunde. Also has Diva/Linde applications which can come up occasionally.

>Foolish: Started with wanting the Tidal/Archer access, honestly the cards been ok. Happy when I have it, ussually the last card I want to see other than leed when I don't. This would be the first card I'd drop from my deck and certainly one of the weaker cards, but the only card I'd want in it's place Hole. But i feel as though this deck can deal with big fields already and Hole is a card I don't to see against books since Wisdom is a very real thing.

Or that's what I would've said, but then I realized how sub-par Foolish is writing this out and dropped it for Hole. May go back in later.

>Dewloren: Card is not as good as it was with 1 Diva/Dragoons, it's really only good if I hit direct with marksman>Dragoons. All the other situations it's good in are too niche and if I needed a 25 beater, Leviathan Dragon would be better to make with Acher since it stays at 25 and has less niche applications with Marksman.

>Laval Chain: Extra Deck is tighter than a virgin's pussy sown shut. Would likely be the second card I added to the extra after a third 7.

>Undine: Controller is a bad card and outclassed by Archer, Undine is a card that searches for a bad card. All together, my only incentive to run Undine would be Dragoons access, but I don't think it's that crucial that I need to run multiple bad cards to facilitate 1 good card. Tidal and Archer are accessable through Foolish, a card I already dropped.

>Creature Swap: card is definitely good, but deck space doesn't allow it. It'd probably be the first card I add/41st card though, the interaction with Linde, Archer and Trite along with making dead Infantries or negated Divas into boss monsters are just too good.

additional notes
>After more in depth testing, I may swap Bottomless for a second DWrath
>Side deck is very unfinished. I don't really have anything notable there right now, will post when I finish it.

I've been considering running Archer, but the problem I see is that with only one Tidal, there is hardly a way to get it to the graveyard. Because of this it becomes deadweight in the deck, and I do not wanna draw that shit late.


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#1252
Gibbination

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Been testing morray of greed recently, reminds me of th respite glads and can help you out of alot of bad hands. I like it to because the strongest version of the deck is the aqua spirit combo and anything that increases your chance of that makes the deck much better


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#1253
Matt Bishop

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@Hermit: Maybe I missed it in your explanation, I just briefly skimmed them, but why exactly aren't you playing Tidal?  The card is the absolute stones.

 

Also I played multiple games today where I didn't draw Megalo/Teus/Leed but drew an absolute fist full of Gundes.  That was so frustrating, and I am debating putting the third Megalo back in.  I mean as much as it "clogs", when I do not draw it at all, it is pretty rough.  To be fair, any game would be tough when you draw into triple Gunde and even when I played 3 Megalo/3 Dragoons there were still games where you drew into crap hands.  I am definitely taking from testing today, that the deck needs more concrete testing.  I am a little glad that I drew like that today as it showed me how terrible things can get and perhaps some of the things that I need to change to mitigate that.  There are a few things that need to be changed in my deck for certain, I am almost glad that ARG Toronto got postponed so I have more time to develop a proper list.  The only match that I actually lost versus was against Bujins, which I found to be pretty tough surprisingly enough.  I sided in Light Imprisonings, Debunks, and Imperial Iron Wall, but I feel like I may have over-sided almost.  What do you guys find yourselves siding for Bujins?


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#1254
nut master

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I side Divine Wraths but thats because I play Genex and have discard fodder.


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#1255
Naythin

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I played my first locals in a month the other day with this deck. Some conclusions I've come to from my exhaustive testing at a 6 round locals:

 

- Creature Swap is stupid (like, in a bad way). It's rarely ever as good as it sounds in theory and usually just adds to awkward hands. If you need the extra help to get your Lindes off you're probably too far behind anyway.

- Megalo was unnecessary a lot for me. I literally never summoned him in the 14 games I played. He's good and it's idiotic not to play him but he wasn't really all too useful and I can't see myself running 3.

-To add to the above, your level 4 and lower monsters are the heart and soul of the deck. The deck runs almost entirely off of them with a little help from Teus every now and then.

- Aqua Spirit is the titties. Rank 4s are the titties. 2-3 Aqua Spirit is mandatory if you want to not lose.

- I didn't have a Lavalval Chain and I reallyreally needed one. That card sets up combos and seems way too good not to run.

- Extra Deck space > anything Diva can offer. Extra Deck space is tight without synchros, putting them in just to facilitate your 1 Diva is not worth it.

- If you run less than 3 Gunde you are dumb. That bitch good as fuck.

- I played both Dine and Mander. I liked them enough and they're better than most situational winmore cards people are playing. If you draw them, you discard them, simple. You can also set them both up in grave with the Bahamut/Angineer combo. Dine is a free level 3 for anything you bring back with Gunde/Trite or it lets you cycle Linde more. It also makes Volca/Gaia happen a lot easier when you have Mander in grave. I probably wouldn't play Mander without Dine.

- Salvage is also stupid. Your cards all recycle themselves. You should never (ever) get to the point where you're out of resources.

- The deck doesn't need inconsistent winmore cards to win. Stop with this Squall/Creature Swap/Salvage/Debris Dragon nonsense

- Literally the only reason I see benefit in running Undine is being able to comfortably play discard traps (pmuch just Divine Wrath). Other than that Undine seems awful in theory and unnecessary from testing.


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#1256
James Morton

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@Hermit: Maybe I missed it in your explanation, I just briefly skimmed them, but why exactly aren't you playing Tidal?  The card is the absolute stones.

 

Also I played multiple games today where I didn't draw Megalo/Teus/Leed but drew an absolute fist full of Gundes.  That was so frustrating, and I am debating putting the third Megalo back in.  I mean as much as it "clogs", when I do not draw it at all, it is pretty rough.  To be fair, any game would be tough when you draw into triple Gunde and even when I played 3 Megalo/3 Dragoons there were still games where you drew into crap hands.  I am definitely taking from testing today, that the deck needs more concrete testing.  I am a little glad that I drew like that today as it showed me how terrible things can get and perhaps some of the things that I need to change to mitigate that.  There are a few things that need to be changed in my deck for certain, I am almost glad that ARG Toronto got postponed so I have more time to develop a proper list.  The only match that I actually lost versus was against Bujins, which I found to be pretty tough surprisingly enough.  I sided in Light Imprisonings, Debunks, and Imperial Iron Wall, but I feel like I may have over-sided almost.  What do you guys find yourselves siding for Bujins?

I did put Tidal in the deck, I only explained the things I felt needed explanation. 

 

 

I played my first locals in a month the other day with this deck. Some conclusions I've come to from my exhaustive testing at a 6 round locals:

 

- Creature Swap is stupid (like, in a bad way). It's rarely ever as good as it sounds in theory and usually just adds to awkward hands. If you need the extra help to get your Lindes off you're probably too far behind anyway.

- Megalo was unnecessary a lot for me. I literally never summoned him in the 14 games I played. He's good and it's idiotic not to play him but he wasn't really all too useful and I can't see myself running 3.

-To add to the above, your level 4 and lower monsters are the heart and soul of the deck. The deck runs almost entirely off of them with a little help from Teus every now and then.

- Aqua Spirit is the titties. Rank 4s are the titties. 2-3 Aqua Spirit is mandatory if you want to not lose.

- I didn't have a Lavalval Chain and I reallyreally needed one. That card sets up combos and seems way too good not to run.

- Extra Deck space > anything Diva can offer. Extra Deck space is tight without synchros, putting them in just to facilitate your 1 Diva is not worth it.

- If you run less than 3 Gunde you are dumb. That bitch good as fuck.

- I played both Dine and Mander. I liked them enough and they're better than most situational winmore cards people are playing. If you draw them, you discard them, simple. You can also set them both up in grave with the Bahamut/Angineer combo. Dine is a free level 3 for anything you bring back with Gunde/Trite or it lets you cycle Linde more. It also makes Volca/Gaia happen a lot easier when you have Mander in grave. I probably wouldn't play Mander without Dine.

- Salvage is also stupid. Your cards all recycle themselves. You should never (ever) get to the point where you're out of resources.

- The deck doesn't need inconsistent winmore cards to win. Stop with this Squall/Creature Swap/Salvage/Debris Dragon nonsense

- Literally the only reason I see benefit in running Undine is being able to comfortably play discard traps (pmuch just Divine Wrath). Other than that Undine seems awful in theory and unnecessary from testing.

I find that your reasoning not to run Squall, Creature Swap, Diva is just reason enough not to run Mander and Dine.

 

I dunno about you guys but It think by itself Diva is a better card than either of those. I only commit 2 extra deck spots for Diva, while using Mander you also commit at the very least 2 for Volca and Gaia.


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#1257
welcometointernet

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is it worth siding in malevolent catastrophe over dust tornado or is it too inconsistent?

also what are people siding out in this deck, i struggle to side out more than 2/3 cards


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#1258
James Morton

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is it worth siding in malevolent catastrophe over dust tornado or is it too inconsistent?

also what are people siding out in this deck, i struggle to side out more than 2/3 cards

I like MalKatz I just think Dust Tornado is more reliable because you NEED to kill Macro/DFi/Soul Drain and I need the room for that.

 

Siding out priorities:

  1. Aqua Spirits and Squall. These are win-more cards, and you don't need them over side cards g2/3, especially if you're going second.
  2. Creature Swap if the matchup doesn't make it really good. (Bujin, NK, anything that Bladers)
  3. 1-2 MST/one Marksman for light backrow decks.
  4. Traps not so good going second.
  5. If I side a LOT of cards, sometimes i'll need to side out Ocea and Turge because they are not needed for the deck to function but are nice things to have.

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#1259
redlight

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@Hermit: Maybe I missed it in your explanation, I just briefly skimmed them, but why exactly aren't you playing Tidal?  The card is the absolute stones.

 

Also I played multiple games today where I didn't draw Megalo/Teus/Leed but drew an absolute fist full of Gundes.  That was so frustrating, and I am debating putting the third Megalo back in.  I mean as much as it "clogs", when I do not draw it at all, it is pretty rough.  To be fair, any game would be tough when you draw into triple Gunde and even when I played 3 Megalo/3 Dragoons there were still games where you drew into crap hands.  I am definitely taking from testing today, that the deck needs more concrete testing.  I am a little glad that I drew like that today as it showed me how terrible things can get and perhaps some of the things that I need to change to mitigate that.  There are a few things that need to be changed in my deck for certain, I am almost glad that ARG Toronto got postponed so I have more time to develop a proper list.  The only match that I actually lost versus was against Bujins, which I found to be pretty tough surprisingly enough.  I sided in Light Imprisonings, Debunks, and Imperial Iron Wall, but I feel like I may have over-sided almost.  What do you guys find yourselves siding for Bujins?

I side Dna Surgery and Divine Wraths.  I don't think that matchup is that tough to be honest especially if you run Creature Swap. 


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#1260
James Morton

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@Hermit: Maybe I missed it in your explanation, I just briefly skimmed them, but why exactly aren't you playing Tidal?  The card is the absolute stones.

 

Also I played multiple games today where I didn't draw Megalo/Teus/Leed but drew an absolute fist full of Gundes.  That was so frustrating, and I am debating putting the third Megalo back in.  I mean as much as it "clogs", when I do not draw it at all, it is pretty rough.  To be fair, any game would be tough when you draw into triple Gunde and even when I played 3 Megalo/3 Dragoons there were still games where you drew into crap hands.  I am definitely taking from testing today, that the deck needs more concrete testing.  I am a little glad that I drew like that today as it showed me how terrible things can get and perhaps some of the things that I need to change to mitigate that.  There are a few things that need to be changed in my deck for certain, I am almost glad that ARG Toronto got postponed so I have more time to develop a proper list.  The only match that I actually lost versus was against Bujins, which I found to be pretty tough surprisingly enough.  I sided in Light Imprisonings, Debunks, and Imperial Iron Wall, but I feel like I may have over-sided almost.  What do you guys find yourselves siding for Bujins?

I side Dna Surgery and Divine Wraths.  I don't think that matchup is that tough to be honest especially if you run Creature Swap. 

DNA Surgery is so so good versus that deck. I side three of them because it hits that along with Prophecy and other random decks.


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#1261
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make sure to separate your gundes after games because chances are when you resolve one off pike you search for another one so they arent too spaced out in the grave so when you shuffle up for g2 or 3 they remain relatively close. this really cuts down on multiple linde/gunde hands. just a tip lol.


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#1262
Tartarga

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@Hermit: Maybe I missed it in your explanation, I just briefly skimmed them, but why exactly aren't you playing Tidal?  The card is the absolute stones.

 

Also I played multiple games today where I didn't draw Megalo/Teus/Leed but drew an absolute fist full of Gundes.  That was so frustrating, and I am debating putting the third Megalo back in.  I mean as much as it "clogs", when I do not draw it at all, it is pretty rough.  To be fair, any game would be tough when you draw into triple Gunde and even when I played 3 Megalo/3 Dragoons there were still games where you drew into crap hands.  I am definitely taking from testing today, that the deck needs more concrete testing.  I am a little glad that I drew like that today as it showed me how terrible things can get and perhaps some of the things that I need to change to mitigate that.  There are a few things that need to be changed in my deck for certain, I am almost glad that ARG Toronto got postponed so I have more time to develop a proper list.  The only match that I actually lost versus was against Bujins, which I found to be pretty tough surprisingly enough.  I sided in Light Imprisonings, Debunks, and Imperial Iron Wall, but I feel like I may have over-sided almost.  What do you guys find yourselves siding for Bujins?

 

I find that DNA Surgery fucks bujin pretty hard. Divine Wrath if you are into that or LIM should be more than enough. If you use diva, armades is pretty strong too. Basically, armades + DNA is ggç

 

Edit: Sorry for mentioning something that was already mentioned. Did not refresh the thread


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#1263
Gibbination

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Trag and gorz are both terrible in this deck. Gorz conflicts with to much and trag doesnt benafit you at all when your losing. Maxx c main is cuddly as shit since the number one deck spellbook. How is everyone not maining vielers. .
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#1264
Matt Bishop

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make sure to separate your gundes after games because chances are when you resolve one off pike you search for another one so they arent too spaced out in the grave so when you shuffle up for g2 or 3 they remain relatively close. this really cuts down on multiple linde/gunde hands. just a tip lol.

Yeah I do that as well as pile before every game as well, but should be pos'd because it is never stated enough.  

 

Lol I hadn't even thought of DNA Surgery even though it was already in my side, but it made a ton of sense.  I think for the most part it was a learning experience, as I have only played against Bujins a handful of times and never really -that- competitively either.  Probably a matchup that I will give a bit of practice to.

 

@Hermit: I find that I side out a lot of similar things.  I tend to try to eliminate "win-more" when going second especially.  I don't know how much I advise siding out msts, only because decks side in stupidness like macro/dfi/soul drain etc and you definitely want to be able to pop that shit.  However, I similarly drop either Ocea/Turge if I side a lot of cards, and obviously against some decks Maxx "C"s are utterly useless.  As I had previously stated in an earlier post, I am still not 100% convinced on my suite of Maxx "C" at the moment.  They may end up getting swapped out for Veilers/Traps/Something else entirely.

 

@Gibbi: I mean maybe in your locale the number one deck is spellbooks but that does not instantly make it the number one deck in the format.  To be honest, I have seen a wide variety of decks this format, but probably the most of one I see is either Fire Fist or Mermail.  There are very few spellbook players near me, and I have never had a problem with that matchup this format regardless.  It is pretty closed-minded to say that "spellbook is the most played deck guyz, siding maxx c is retarded".  Especially when there have been no -real- events that would have given us an indication as to what may or may not be popular or consistent this format.


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#1265
James Morton

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make sure to separate your gundes after games because chances are when you resolve one off pike you search for another one so they arent too spaced out in the grave so when you shuffle up for g2 or 3 they remain relatively close. this really cuts down on multiple linde/gunde hands. just a tip lol.

Yeah I do that as well as pile before every game as well, but should be pos'd because it is never stated enough.  

 

Lol I hadn't even thought of DNA Surgery even though it was already in my side, but it made a ton of sense.  I think for the most part it was a learning experience, as I have only played against Bujins a handful of times and never really -that- competitively either.  Probably a matchup that I will give a bit of practice to.

 

@Hermit: I find that I side out a lot of similar things.  I tend to try to eliminate "win-more" when going second especially.  I don't know how much I advise siding out msts, only because decks side in stupidness like macro/dfi/soul drain etc and you definitely want to be able to pop that shit.  However, I similarly drop either Ocea/Turge if I side a lot of cards, and obviously against some decks Maxx "C"s are utterly useless.  As I had previously stated in an earlier post, I am still not 100% convinced on my suite of Maxx "C" at the moment.  They may end up getting swapped out for Veilers/Traps/Something else entirely.

I'm using traditional traps but that may change for Veilers.


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#1266
Matt Bishop

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Yeah, there are definite pros and cons to playing real traps in this deck.  A pro being that they never really want to mst your backrow because they do not know whether it is sphere or not.  The con is that because you play so few st, they often have the msts/st removal when you have your -real- trap.

 

On the topic of Creature Swap, since you guys seem to love the fuck out of it, to me it seems really gimmicky and not fast enough.  That said, Enemy Controller is a really solid card because it can make a lot of cool tricks and you can get around cards on board or just go for game with it.  Very versatile, as it has been in past formats as well.


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#1267
Gibbination

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Trag and gorz are both terrible in this deck. Gorz conflicts with to much and trag doesnt benafit you at all when your losing. Maxx c main is cuddly as shit since the number one deck spellbook. How is everyone not maining vielers. .
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#1268
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i dont think you guys are giving gorz enough credit lol. sphere has nothing to do with how good gorz is. trag is trash, but gorz can swing the tempo of the game all on his own. he's a level 7, and he is really only bad vs fire fist. having him ensure you wont die in the mirror since those monster hands often allow an open game shot in the mirror. i know that if i see an opening in the mirror im gonna go for it since chances are there are at least 3 monsters in the hand at all times, and scarecrow isnt a thing anymore. 

 

also creature swap is amazing. it isnt win more, and it doesnt serve the purpose of forcing the linde. its to take the opponents stacked ass monsters. the linde float is a +. albeit, my side compliments the swaps very well. but creature swap is so great this format. ive been grinding inf games on dn and im actually literally 38-0. not that it means much, but the dn populus roughly translates to the irl first 6ish rounds of a major tournament. 


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#1269
Gibbination

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In a deck that draws awkward hands at times and you wanna run dumb shit like swap? Lol 30-0 on dn when rating gets reset? Ok
Sphere has nothing to do with how good gorz is? explain that one please
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#1270
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I've come to this conclusion: Fuck Genex Undine, and fuck Genex Controller.

 

There's too much inconsistency and vulnerability involved with that card. If you can get off Undine correctly, cool, it's pretty good but when you draw that damned Controller you want to punch a baby. It's that frustrating. Not to mention the fact you want to use your normal summon on stuff like Abysspike/Abyssturge that don't cause inconsistency and set up your plays without being scared of drawing a dead controller.

 

I've decided to go with the Mono Mermail version with Aqua Spirit and Abyssocea because the Bahamut play is still legitimate as fuck and with Nightmare Shark coming, we now have a new toy to abuse. Then there's Evilswarm Exciton Knight, the new nuker on the block. Also, it gives access to Lavalval Chain which means you can set up Archer/Tidals plays which is essentially what Undine did, but Lavalval does it without the inconsistency.

 

I'm maxing out on the Atlanteans because as Satchmo has said, undefined meta.. undefined meta.. undefined meta. You gott'a be prepared for ALL threats because at the beginning of a format you don't know what the fuck you're gonna see. Marksman answers the Geargia and Gravekeeper match-ups, along with much needed backrow hate. Heavy Infantry clears out established fields, causes Bujin to use a relic to protect him, etc. Both cards are legitimate going into the format. I'm also maxing on Abyssgunde because that thing is like, the best card in the entire deck. I was running 2 initially but I found I wanted to see that card ASAP and I've been noticing I really like having a consistent amount of discard outlets.

 

Also running Diva and Archer because Gungnir, Black Rose, Armades, Armor Kappa and Spark are all good cards.


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#1271
Gibbination

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I agree with you in that the direction of the deck has to be on aqua spirit offering you rank for access and that turn onw combo. I qas against it before but I am now 100% behind the idea of triple upstart main decked. The build im running with now runs no cute shit just mermails. I have been running morrayn of greed and loving it and surprised no one has really talked about that card. I do run the one salvage just to get the plus off of morrat but homeboy brought a good point that if your losing rarely will salvage bring you back. Tried decree main but with everything maining dat 3 mst I feel they will always have that out
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#1272
Patrick Hoban

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I think Infantry is awful and am between 0 and 1. 


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#1273
SpiceyYanni1

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I am currently playing 2 infantry atm, but honestly I cannot see myself dropping it to 1 or even 0. 

 

There are times where you need to pop a face up and there is no way I can see myself no playing it at all.


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#1274
Gibbination

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@Matt Bishop
At my locals people play all kinds of dumb shit but spell and gears is what wins. Your arguement that no one knows whats going to be played just helps the idea of not maining shitty ass maxx c.
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#1275
Gibbination

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Double post my bad.
I dont have any issue with that matchup is a retarded fucking statement btw
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#1276
Ecstacy.

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I don't like Maxx "C" in the beginning of a format when the meta hasn't formulated, honestly.


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#1277
Ecstacy.

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30

1 Tidal, Dragon Ruler of Waterfalls

3 Mermail Abyssteus

3 Mermail Abysspike

3 Mermail Abysslinde

3 Mermail Abyssgunde

2 Mermail Abyssmegalo

1 Mermail Abyssturge

1 Mermail Abyssocea

1 Mermail Abyssleed

3 Atlantean Marksman

3 Atlantean Heavy Infantry

1 Atlantean Dragoons

3 Aqua Spirit

1 Deep Sea Diva

1 Fishborg Archer

 

4

3 Mystical Space Typhoon

1 Book of Moon

 

6

3 Abyss-sphere

2 Divine Wrath

1 Solemn Warning

 

--

 

This is probably the most consistent line-up I've played with thus far, really; maxed out discard outlets which I personally feel is extremely important especially since I don't run Salvage (due to 3 Aqua Spirit). You can see I'm running the Bahamut combo. Yes, it's still amazing, even going into next format. Bahamut-Angineer is the stones.

 

You can see I'm running tuners - Deep Sea Diva and Fishborg Archer, both of which are efficient cards in this deck for opening up plays such as Black Rose Dragon, Gungnir, Armades, Armored Kappa, Stardust Spark Dragon, or anything you want to play. A lot of people I've seen have dropped these options and it puzzles me.

 

Basic spell line-up really, MST and the solo Book of Moon, doesn't need any explanation besides the fact MST will be as important as always and Book of Moon is still one of the best spell cards in the game. You can see that I'm running Divine Wrath. This card is pretty much the best trap card in the game atm imo and the cool fact about it is you can trigger Gunde and Tidal is also a free pitch plus you can pitch whatever and grab it back with Abyssturge.

 

--

 

15

2 Light-Imprisoning Mirror

2 Phoenix Wing Wind Blast

2 DNA Surgery

2 Royal Decree

2 D.D. Crow

2 Maxx "C"

3 Overworked

 

--

 

DNA Surgery is for match-ups such as Bujins, Prophecy, Noble Knights, etc. Light-Imprisoning Mirror for Bujins, Noble Knights, etc. Phoenix Wing Wind Blast comes in for appropriate match-ups such as Gravekeepers and Evilswarm for their little locks. Decree is obvious. Maxx "C" for the mirror, Geargia, etc. D.D. Crow is the only card that seems pretty useless, will come out once I figure what to add. Overworked is obvious, Fire Fists and Gravekeepers.

 

--

 

15

1 Mecha Phantom Beast Dracossack

1 Evilswarm Exciton Knight

1 Number 47: Nightmare Shark

1 Gungnir, Dragon of the Ice Barrier

1 Mermail Abyssgaios

1 Mermail Abysstrite

1 Bahamut Shark

1 Lavalval Chain

1 Mechquipped Angineer

1 Number 11: Big Eye

1 Black Rose Dragon

1 Stardust Spark Dragon

1 Abyss Dweller

1 Armored Kappa

1 Armades, Keeper of Boundaries

 

--

 

Extra deck is pretty straight-forward.


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#1278
brawlballs

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Yeah, there are definite pros and cons to playing real traps in this deck.  A pro being that they never really want to mst your backrow because they do not know whether it is sphere or not.  The con is that because you play so few st, they often have the msts/st removal when you have your -real- trap.

 

On the topic of Creature Swap, since you guys seem to love the fuck out of it, to me it seems really gimmicky and not fast enough.  That said, Enemy Controller is a really solid card because it can make a lot of cool tricks and you can get around cards on board or just go for game with it.  Very versatile, as it has been in past formats as well.

 

While I agree with your sentiment regarding Creature Swap, I'm not sure how you plan on using Enemy Controller.  I know Billy Brake and Jeff Jones used it at YCS NJ back in March 13 format but it was my understanding that the primary utility of that card stemmed from use with Deep Sea Diva.  With Diva at 1, what are you using as fodder?


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#1279
nicktom24

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D.D. Crow is one of the best cards to have going second against prophecy. Cutting off their spellbook of the master search usually guarantees that they either:
1. Won't have 3 spellbooks in grave for fate
Or even better
2. Won't be able to get to fate.
Most of the time if they don't open up crescent the crow will usually leave them with only 1 book in grave so fate is pretty useless anyway.
Obviously going first you would much rather open with surgery but crow's applications in the book match up as well as being a good option against infernity, inzektor, plants, other rogue decks and even in the mirror match should earn it a spot in your side at least as a 1 of
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#1280
Gibbination

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Teus and pike are floaters with a relevant dicard btw ^^
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