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dexer008    805

I used to play on tradecards online back in the day, it was super slow sometimes and had no player base at all, not to mention you can't view all piles of cards without your opponent's permission I believe (such as their graveyard like you said). 

The best thing about it to be honest is you can go to the "deck garage" and click play deck and it will take you directly into the play room with the deck you chose, saving you time making it yourself. 

Still wouldn't play on that site again though. 

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»Satchmo    3222

Honestly lackytcg sounds like the best option. The only downside would be lack of players,  but its basically just a cockatrice that isn't mtg specific. 

 

It is however full Manuel so be aware. 

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»Pharaoh Atem    15772
On 7/8/2016 at 7:28 AM, Me. said:

This also assumes that the latter group will now be willing to suddenly pay for RL when online is no longer available, which may be the assumption made but sounds a lot less plausible.

No, it doesn't. 

It's not so much a case of "we need to force these people to buy our product instead" as much as "we need to protect our IP and these folks have next to zero benefit to keeping them as customers, so if they ditch ygo as a hobby, we care less about that than protecting our IP."

This is because people like you and me have nearly zero of our spending habits benefit ygo as a franchise. The secondary market exists thanks to the primary market, not the other way around, and when we go hunting for singles at mad value, we're operating in the secondary market, not the primary market.

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boots88    124
On 12/07/2016 at 10:53 AM, Pharaoh Atem said:

This is because people like you and me have nearly zero of our spending habits benefit ygo as a franchise. The secondary market exists thanks to the primary market, not the other way around, and when we go hunting for singles at mad value, we're operating in the secondary market, not the primary market.

I have to disagree. If sealed product is well designed even the most competitive players will buy it.

E.g: Ra Yellow mega pack, Hanzo Tins, Monarchs, Chaos Dragons, CORE, ORCS Special Edition, etc. 

And it definitely wasn't the casual playerbase buying cases of BOSH earlier this year.

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»ACP    33422

I made a blog post touching on this subject earlier. I'll quote it here for you guys to see.

Quote

By now, everyone's heard about the wild success of Pokemon Go. The app single-handedly raised Nintendo's stock price by 25% in a few days. Pokemon Go has broken literally every single kind of record that we have for phone apps. It's incredible. What a lot of people don't know is how lucky Nintendo is to have lucked into this cash cow. Nintendo actually had no intention to produce anything like this. The creator of Pokemon Go has never been a Nintendo employee.

John Hanke, the creator of Pokemon Go and founder of Niantic, had to approach Nintendo and Google with his Pokemon geo-cashing idea and get them both to sign off on it. With their support and investment, he was able to hire a team of people to get this idea off the ground. But the idea itself and its implementation was entirely his own. The main role that Nintendo played was in giving him permission to use their intellectual property. It's worth noting that they could've denied him that right and then went on to create their own Pokemon augmented reality game. Maybe it would've been better, or maybe it would've completed flopped. We have no way of knowing. But Nintendo's decision has definitely paid off, as this game has been wildly successful beyond anyone's imagination.

Not every company shares this attitude. Some companies are more concerned with an overly paranoid desire to protect their intellectual property, rather than allow their loyal fans to build their brand for them by creating products that improves everyone's game playing experience. I am of course referring to the intellectual property holders of Yugioh and their shutdown of Dueling Network and YugiohPRO. To be clear, their decision to pull this move is an irrational and bad business. When you find people in your community with the talent to create something successful as Dueling Network was, as a company you should be finding ways to embrace that. We see examples of this all of the time. In many cases, the FBI hires our best hackers rather than jails them.

At this point we've seen the results. Nintendo has embraced one man's brilliant vision for the greatest pokemon game ever, and their shareholders are loving them for it. Meanwhile, companies like Konami and Wizards of the Coast have been zealously protecting their intellectual property regardless of circumstances. Their online products are among the worst and their fans are among the most unhappy. I'd be willing to bet that Konami's new online Yugioh video game, like all of its predecessors, will be quite the flop. Who knows how things would've been different had they chosen to strike a deal with BLS (the creator of Dueling Network) and bring him on to their team. Maybe we'd be looking at our equivalent of Pokemon Go. Just food for thought.

TL;DR: Shutdown of these dueling sims down is bad business.

Also, I don't know what the secondary market has to do with Dueling Network, but demand for the secondary market fuels demand for the primary market. Konami wants its singles to be expensive so people will buy boxes. Someone like me who (while playing the game) spent no less than $5,000 on singles over the course of my life is one of Konami's best customers.

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+Jazz    5387
11 hours ago, ACP said:

I made a blog post touching on this subject earlier. I'll quote it here for you guys to see.

TL;DR: Shutdown of these dueling sims down is bad business.

Also, I don't know what the secondary market has to do with Dueling Network, but demand for the secondary market fuels debate for the primary market. Konami wants its singles to be expensive so people will buy boxes. Someone like me who (while playing the game) spent no less than $5,000 on singles over the course of my life is one of Konami's best customers.

Brilliant post. I couldn't have said it any better myself. Love the Pokemon Go analogy, though it also makes me sad because I wish Yugioh could have navigated the changing markets as well as Pokemon has.

Personally I have spent about $50 on singles the past 3 years, but only to round a couple goat decks out of leftover cards in my parents' attic. I would have never spent this money, or even touched another yugioh card again in my lifetime, had it not been for Dueling Network. The fact is that Dueling Network revitalized my interest in this game when nothing else possibly could have. One would think generating and maintaining interest in the game is a top priority for those who own the intellectual copyrights to it. I don't know whether the primary card market was positively or negatively impacted by the existence of DN, but it absolutely generated renewed interest in the game itself, which is far more valuable than short term revenue losses could be in the long run.

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»ACP    33422

It's funny how this is all such common sense to us competitive gamers and not to the corporate dudes back at Konami HQ. When someone is much better at something than I am, I think to myself "How can I learn from this person's success?" I don't complain or make excuses. Ironically enough, Konami/Wizards' attitude of pointing the finger at the other guy who is successful and trying to stop them because it's not fair in their eyes is a textbook example of the scrub mentality.

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Not that I am saying anything that probably hasn't been more eloquently put already, but I really do wonder about the impact this will have on the game in general especially for the online community. I'm curious as to how some of you have dealt with it and reacted to it (I obv just dropped it since I hardly play anymore, but for ppl that play weekly or more competitively, I wonder about that)

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-L2theZ-    1611

Stuff like that has never really worked out in a positive manner, and unless the new game they're putting out has all the cards unlocked immediately with the ability to play old formats I don't think shutting down DN is going to have a positive impact on their sales.

That said who's trying to get some Goats in on YVD?

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Ynusgridorh    142
On 08/07/2016 at 7:19 AM, Pharaoh Atem said:

The fact may well be that the DN crew might just not give a flying fuck about you all enough to bother with more things like this, especially if they now believe the companies take the existence of sims more seriously than they did before.

As for whether or not Konami's involved, the DN folks said they weren't, and I agree, but whether they are or aren't won't stop players' own suspicions from dictating their individual behaviors. I'm expecting someone to show up at the WCQ with a crate of rotten tomatoes for throwing, and if someone does make a physical disturbance like that, it'll possibly be my job to escort them off the premises.

There's also the matter of whether or not the DN-using section of the playerbase being part of the playerbase at all is good for the franchise or not. There is such a thing as just not wanting to deal with certain people, even if those people have money - and changing the landscape to make "players who don't buy sealed product either buy it or quit" stands to either increase sales of sealed product or just drive away players that did nothing to help the bottom line in any way the franchise cares about.

The end of third party sims not only helps the franchise's in-house programmed products avoid competition with free products, it also takes away a "try before you buy" option that gave a lot of people reason not to buy things.

They feel that the number of people who "only bought product because sims got them interested in ygo again" is lower than the amount of folks who "didn't buy product because why pay for RL when online is free". 

and it's their prerogative to follow their feelings, because the franchise is theirs, not ours.

There's no denying NAS or any other company can do whatever they want with their products. However, when it becomes obvious that their decisions are bad for both the playerbase and their own business, it is not only our right but our also duty to speak up our minds.

The misconception that online simulators have a negative impact on the volume of sales derives from a poorly thought analogy between the card games industry and the music industry. The reason music piracy has sounded the death of physical albums is that the listening experience CDs and MP3s provide are more than similar; they're identical. With Yugioh, no matter how much time you spend on your computer, in order to attend and possibly win any real tournament, you still have to buy real cards.

Not only DN and YGOPro are not a threat to the rights holders' income (poorly designed cards and the lack of real prizes are), I would argue that these programs have been keeping Yugioh from dying for 2 reasons:

1) They give publicity to the game which attract more players, some of whom would never have taken the time to learn the rules, let alone buy any card, if they couldn't give it a try without breaking the piggy bank. Any good publicity is great publicity.

2) They encourage experienced players to commit more to the game. Once you've spent countless hours working on a deck, trying out every combination and learning how to deal with every possible threat, the next logical step is to take that deck to a real-life event and show everybody the result of your efforts. Without access to online testing, players would have to choose between spending money on every relevant card and building a deck right off the bat, hoping to get it right on their first try. While some of the most competitive ones would certainly choose the first option, many more would simply walk away from a game they're not ready to go broke for but love too much to suck at.

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Samwise    55

One of the biggest consequences of this move that I haven't seen mentioned is the potential to greatly increase the gap between the elite level players and their tight knit groups when compared to the rest of the playerbase. This is something that I know DGz itself has struggles to overcome this dynamic in past. But now that you can no longer spectate high ranking DN matches and more of this elite level testing will be done over skype duels, I feel the rest of the playerbase will struggle to keep up with trends.

Maybe this opinion is just fueled from the fact that I'm trying to return to the game after like 2 years away and am trying to find good ways to, for lack of a better term, get back within the loop and feel somewhat lost without the hub that was DN. Maybe I'm wrong and this will encourage and reward players much more for innovation more than it hurts the wider community.

 

As a side note, does anyone have information or opinion on the "Duelingbook" stuff being spread around? All I could find is that it's registered to XTevensChannel's domain and has a description of "Duelingbook is a Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Game simulator that works right in your browser" on tium. Also saw a screenshot of someone playing untap.in with ygo images, names, and apparent mechanics.

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+Urthor    10229

Nothing good was ever leaked with spectating a high ranked DN match I am fairly sure.  The thing that really closed the gap between the rest of the pack and the elite players in groups/teams was the fact that the DN ladder gave people an outlet to grind, play the most meta of meta decks week in week out and optimise.  That taste really democratised being good.  

 

Idk I can only remember the majority of players at the top of the DN ladder making really poor tech choices by and large because they weren't plugged into cliques.  They weren't setting examples by anything other than their deck choice really.  

Atm I'm pretty sure you just sign up for the Pros if you want a sim, and play with your friends.  Hell the pro ladder can't be that awful can it?

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»Barron    7988
29 minutes ago, Samwise said:

One of the biggest consequences of this move that I haven't seen mentioned is the potential to greatly increase the gap between the elite level players and their tight knit groups when compared to the rest of the playerbase. This is something that I know DGz itself has struggles to overcome this dynamic in past. But now that you can no longer spectate high ranking DN matches and more of this elite level testing will be done over skype duels, I feel the rest of the playerbase will struggle to keep up with trends.

Maybe this opinion is just fueled from the fact that I'm trying to return to the game after like 2 years away and am trying to find good ways to, for lack of a better term, get back within the loop and feel somewhat lost without the hub that was DN. Maybe I'm wrong and this will encourage and reward players much more for innovation more than it hurts the wider community.

 

As a side note, does anyone have information or opinion on the "Duelingbook" stuff being spread around? All I could find is that it's registered to XTevensChannel's domain and has a description of "Duelingbook is a Yu-Gi-Oh! Trading Card Game simulator that works right in your browser" on tium. Also saw a screenshot of someone playing untap.in with ygo images, names, and apparent mechanics.

Duelingbook isn't apart of DNF/DN. Nobody knows if it's legit or not or trying to steal log in information. 

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Samwise    55

Oh yeah, I'm sure that there was still a huge divide between the top of DN's ladder and the established elite players with their groups. Maybe my statement was a little bit generous and the existence of DN did far less than I realised for the most skilled players, but I feel like it gave an immeasurable benefit to every player that wasn't part of one of the cliques. Hell, I would have never touched ygo to begin with without the existence of DN. Regardless of if things were ever "leaked", it still helped provide a bridge for that gap between player groups. In my opinion at least, the development of mechanical skill comes long before, and is more important than, theoretical skill when it comes to virtually everyone other than elite class of players in these cliques. And speaking as someone who lived 2 hours+ from their nearest locals for a long time, DN was not only my only opportunity to play, but my only opportunity to learn and involve myself in what was the larger ygo community.

 

Despite the fact that, at least to me, an automated system will never be able to hold a candle to a manual system like DN's, there is other issues with any of the auto sims that stop them from ever being a meaningful replacement for DN. Obviously there's ruling/mechanic issues, especially considering the Percy YGOPro uses OCG rulings as far as I'm aware; I've encountered a couple game breaking bugs in last few days; there's 3 main variants of the sim which greatly dilutes the playerbase on each, and even when you add them all up, it still seems as if its significantly less than DN; there's also no ranked spectating on DevPro, which seems like the best variant.

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In all legitimacy, I haven't played a competitive game in months, but what I miss the most about DN getting shut down is the loss of the search function.

YgoPro has a far inferior one, the Wiki also sucks for looking at a glance, and the database is also bad. Being able to sort for text within a type of card, as well as using the asterisk to refine that search further, is honestly probably how every blowout tech has been discovered in the past few years. If I want to cling to the delusion that I first discovered Anti-Spell Fragrance / Concealijg Light for Tellarknight (I might not have but whatever), I certainly could not have done it without the DN card search.

 

DuelingBook seems like a big joke, apparently the domain was registered and deactivated 2 years ago?

The "virgins not allowed for admin" makes it seem like a big jab towards the overzealous.

copying the style of DN and then popularizing it before it even exists (by Slaydra, no less) seems like a terrible idea.

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»Ghost-k    50

How can anyone actually take DuelingBook seriously? Did you guys read the admin requirements? It was pretty obvious it was a joke page

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»Satchmo    3222

We're desperate for the DN griiiiiiind

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NB96    859

I'm gonna miss this site, I sunk in so many countless hours on it. I miss those days

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Me.    57

13726792_1144623905599379_57768430673476

I already hate the thought that I will probably spend countless hours on this in the future in lack of a better option.

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Ynusgridorh    142
3 hours ago, Me. said:

13726792_1144623905599379_57768430673476

I already hate the thought that I will probably spend countless hours on this in the future in lack of a better option.

This is the better option: http://duelportal.us/

It's basically a DN without sound.

DuelingBook is a hoax that will never work.

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+Urthor    10229
28 minutes ago, Ynusgridorh said:

This is the better option: http://duelportal.us/

It's basically a DN without sound.

DuelingBook is a hoax that will never work.

So it's straight up better than DN, because as good as DN was the sounds were obnoxious

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Ynusgridorh    142
1 minute ago, Urthor said:

So it's straight up better than DN, because as good as DN was the sounds were obnoxious

Well, you could turn it off.

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Digbick    7265

duelportal is the chinese counterfeit of duelingnetwork

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