Haruki

The Official Goat Format Thread (April 2005 Forbidden and Limited Lists) [Sets Until TLM]

4072 posts in this topic

I usually play 17 monsters, but some people like 16 better. I also like 1 tribute monster better than 2. With your list, ideally, I'd like an additional monster that can attack into a set on t1 than just DDWL and Blade Knight (committing tribe t1 into a set monster is terrible, and Breaker is only good if they set a s/t with their t1 monster, which is not a guarantee). I'd consider an Asura, 2nd Blade Knight, Skilled Magician (either), or even D.D. Assailant.

 

But after a few matches of testing you should be able to figure out your deck's weaknesses on your own and adjust accordingly.

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Blade Knight may be worse than I initially realized (crashes with a lot, breaker/tribe/etc even though it's not terrible - and loses to Book)

Thoughts on Dark Skilled Magician / White Skilled Magician? What edges does DD Assailant have over it, other than crashing with tributes and BLS?

I agree that I want to play more beaters, currently deciding on which ones are better to play


Really didn't like 2 Tsuk 2 Asura, and not sure if 2 Tsuk 1 Asura is viable ( I can see hands with 2 spirits that just brick ). May just go the skilled magicians route after all.

Good catch on the duo, was changing the build a few times so that gives me 1 more spot for another monster or a 2nd book.

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I like Blade Knight more than most people. You can see how insane it is in this game that I recorded vs Satchmo for example: https://youtu.be/uXiW96TNlqs?t=10m16s. Some people are running as many as 6 flip effects right now, so it's pretty easy to get value with it. 2K Blade Knights can also attack over Airknight, Breaker, etc, which is cool. I like Blade Knight more than vanillas like Skilled Magicians. You can certainly play 2 Tsukuyomi 1 Asura. I have one goat list that runs that lineup, but it also plays Creature Swap to capitalize on the additional spirit monster in my lineup.

 

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It's already been said but Upstart is probably even worse now than it was in Exarion format. I'd use Dekoichi over that any day.

 

Regarding Asura Priest vs Blade Knight: Imo the fact that Blade Knight can just sit there and demand a response from your opponent makes him better than Asura. Sure she clears tokens, but I'd rather just run Lightning Vortex which can be used in a wider range of scenarios.

 

Also Asura Priest is a shitty top deck whereas Blade Knight is godly.

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Asura Priest does more than just clear goat tokens. It's a threat that it very difficult to deal with. You can't TER it, Snatch it, Tsuku it, Sorc it, etc. In 3 goat/3 meta/0-1 saku metagames (which could end up becoming standard with Exarion gone) Asura Priest is actually really good. Blade Knight is more likely to get value, whereas Asura Priest is more likely to get in damage. The cards have two different uses.

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Is spirit reaper any good? People get a lot from it vs me, but when I use it I wish it was something else.

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Depends on your list. For example, I like Mystic Tomato a lot right now, and if you're playing Tomato, you also have to run Reaper. Like what people have to realize about monsters in Exarionless goats is there aren't too many that are "good in a vacuum." The ones that you'll pick depend a lot upon your deck strategy and your perception of the metagame. This is why I like Exarionless goats a lot better; the choices are a lot less obvious. In regards to whether you should run Skilled Magicians, Asura Priests, Spirit Reapers, etc. the answer really is "it depends."

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It's a lot better than it was with Exarion, hard to be any more specific lol.

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don don > reaper

 

don

- only has to do damage, not direct attack

- force discards from opponent smashing into u

- warrior for rota

- can help you win by deck out

- cool knives

- searchable with tomato

- cool eye-patch

 

reaper

- stupid zombie

- dies when targeted

- can't kill anything

- scrawny

- scythes are dumb

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20 minutes ago, Mascis said:

reaper

- dies when targeted

Yeah, too bad Reaper can't be snatched like Don Zaloog.

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19 hours ago, Mascis said:

reaper

- dies when targeted

 

Is this actually a plus? While you don't get to coth this thing, at the same time you dont get shitted by Snatch Steal

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I think the most important thing Don Zaloog has going for it is that it's a weak beater that clears flips, like allen talked about

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42 minutes ago, mark said:

I think the most important thing Don Zaloog has going for it is that it's a weak beater that clears flips, like allen talked about

also rota

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That assumes you play rota to begin with

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Alright so if you open something like

 

Saku, Tsuk, CotH, Ring, Airknight, Snatch 

 

Going 1st, mirror, what's the correct play? Also if you didn't have Snatch?

I usually set Saku, but that loses to Breaker so setting Ring may be superior. However, in this scenario, Snatch on their Breaker+Airknight seems like a perfect play although it gets blocked by MST/Dust/BoM. You'd also need to leave youre field open to do that. You're also vulnerable to direct attacks, especially from Reaper/Don Zaloog. In general I'm asking, in these kind of hands, which sets (between MForce, TT, Saku, BoM) are the best in general? I prefer Scapegoat if I have it, but I'm having a hard time finding out what to do here. Leaning towards just setting Ring end turn, because it's good regardless on whether they open Breaker or not and it's chainable so you don't get stuck with a Saku in your backrow.

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I guess you could also set Tsuk+Ring to bait NoC, but I doubt if that's even a good thing, especially with a hand as slow as this one. However, it does open up Airknight attack-shots but that seems suboptimal, I don't know.

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On 4/12/2017 at 4:05 PM, ACP said:

I like Blade Knight more than most people. You can see how insane it is in this game that I recorded vs Satchmo for example: https://youtu.be/uXiW96TNlqs?t=10m16s. Some people are running as many as 6 flip effects right now, so it's pretty easy to get value with it. 2K Blade Knights can also attack over Airknight, Breaker, etc, which is cool. I like Blade Knight more than vanillas like Skilled Magicians. You can certainly play 2 Tsukuyomi 1 Asura. I have one goat list that runs that lineup, but it also plays Creature Swap to capitalize on the additional spirit monster in my lineup.

 

 

Some people run 7 flips:

2 deko

2 merchant

2 faith

1 jar

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11 minutes ago, mark said:

Alright so if you open something like

 

Saku, Tsuk, CotH, Ring, Airknight, Snatch 

 

Going 1st, mirror, what's the correct play? Also if you didn't have Snatch?

 

Set Ring pass is the best play here. Only activate Ring if you get attacked by breaker/don/reaper. Let the attack go through if it's any other monster. Cry if your opponent has flip+tsuku.

 

Alternatively, cut CotH and Saku. Run Dustshoot.

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mark,

what exactly do you need to protect with saku with that hand? i guess you can try and bait breaker for snatch + ak

 

reaper and don are not widely played, so being fearful of the them shouldn't be your concern. it's the same as being afraid of duo, there's nothing you can really do besides setting to play around it, and most of the time you won't want to set due to heavy/mst/breaker

 

the example hand is very reactive. you need a 7th card and opponent's cards to respond to. probably best to just pass

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2 hours ago, petqwe said:

Is this actually a plus? While you don't get to coth this thing, at the same time you dont get shitted by Snatch Steal

 

Priority on reaper with TER is a pain in the ass. You cannot protect your Reaper from TER. This makes decks with 3 goat+ 3 meta strong against Reaper.

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22 hours ago, Metal Gear Salad said:

Is spirit reaper any good? People get a lot from it vs me, but when I use it I wish it was something else.

 

Try running 3 Goat.

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1 minute ago, Mascis said:

mark,

what exactly do you need to protect with saku with that hand? i guess you can try and bait breaker for snatch + ak

 

reaper and don are not widely played, so being fearful of the them shouldn't be your concern. it's the same as being afraid of duo, there's nothing you can really do besides setting to play around it, and most of the time you won't want to set due to heavy/mst/breaker

 

the example hand is very reactive. you need a 7th card and opponent's cards to respond to. probably best to just pass


I was thinking to pass but basically your opponent drawing a beater can put you on a clock, and your hand is slow so you'd be protecting your LP I guess. I mean if you take a hit, then set Saku end and they end phase MST/Dust tornado it, then attack with 2 monsters next turn you're basically dead right? This assumes they open 2 monsters though, which is unlikely, and you can Tsuk to clear 1 threat as well. So either leaving field or setting Ring pass is correct here I assume? I can see setting Saku being terrible because of Breaker mostly

 

I really don't know how to play Sakuretsu either 

 

Kind of like CotH with 2 Airknight but I can definitely see it not being a staple and a bad early draw

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How many Sak do you run? If you run 2 the easy fix is to cut it to 1. If you run 1, the odds of opening with it and simultaneously not having any other good plays are so low I wouldn't even worry about it.

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1 Saku 1 BoM 1 Dust because I kept drawing them

 

may go to 2 BoM though

 

Like I still don't understand how this deck works at all and I'm close to just throwing in a bunch of Skilled Magicians for good T1 plays (Merchant -> s/t clogg isn't good, opening a shitload of flips mostly isn't good, monster clogg or s/t clogg isn't good). Might cut CotH for 2nd BoM like Jazz suggested. Not sure what to think about Dustshoot.

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1 hour ago, mark said:

1 Saku 1 BoM 1 Dust because I kept drawing them

 

may go to 2 BoM though

 

Like I still don't understand how this deck works at all and I'm close to just throwing in a bunch of Skilled Magicians for good T1 plays (Merchant -> s/t clogg isn't good, opening a shitload of flips mostly isn't good, monster clogg or s/t clogg isn't good). Might cut CotH for 2nd BoM like Jazz suggested. Not sure what to think about Dustshoot.

 

Personally s/t clog is not a problem in my opinion, it's actually a goal, and it's why merchant > dekoichi. I would rather have a hand of all s/t than a hand with more than 50% monsters.

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