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Prophecy - Discussion

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Keitzo    33

3 Upstart, 3 Crescent actually get you somewhere though. Dark Hole just doesn't do anything for the deck. It's another card where you'll look at it and be like: "Oh great, I pray to god my next card is secrets." If you're behind like that and you manage to dark hole it still doesn't achieve much. You'll still be behind on lifepoints and Geargia, Mermail and Bujn (lol successful dark hole vs Bujin) will have performed the searches they need to keep playing the game next turn. 

 

In the opposite scenario where you have a reasonable or good hand, Dark Hole still doesn't do much for you. Priestess or World can both break boards without the aid of Dark Hole, especially with good use of fate. (Y'know, playing your fate to back up your priestess, banishing it for priestess pop, grab it back. Same with World grabbing it back).

 

So the only scenario that dark hole really shines in is where you have appropriate spellbook searches like Magician/Secrets along with Dark Hole but no power plays. This is hardly a situation you want to be in either as the relevant decks, especially Geargia and Mermail, can swiftly get through your backrow and deal damage. Dark Hole could literally be any other card here to get your pieces faster or stop their plays completely, rather than allowing them to do plays and clearing the board in your turn.

 

Moving on from the Dark Hole discussion. How do people feel about playing this deck in the current format? I feel like it's currently the strongest deck I own (Don't have Geargia/other good decks) but in previous formats I've not had much success with it outside of online dueling. Part of that I feel is how I play irl compared to online and the other is just certain cards just bury the deck very hard. So with people playing multiple veilers or even going as far as to play Geargia lists the like of Steinman/Pedigo's (Triple Dust, Triple Mind Crush) is this deck even remotely safe to play right now?

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dexer008    805

3 Upstart, 3 Crescent actually get you somewhere though. Dark Hole just doesn't do anything for the deck. It's another card where you'll look at it and be like: "Oh great, I pray to god my next card is secrets." If you're behind like that and you manage to dark hole it still doesn't achieve much. You'll still be behind on lifepoints and Geargia, Mermail and Bujn (lol successful dark hole vs Bujin) will have performed the searches they need to keep playing the game next turn. 

 

In the opposite scenario where you have a reasonable or good hand, Dark Hole still doesn't do much for you. Priestess or World can both break boards without the aid of Dark Hole, especially with good use of fate. (Y'know, playing your fate to back up your priestess, banishing it for priestess pop, grab it back. Same with World grabbing it back).

 

So the only scenario that dark hole really shines in is where you have appropriate spellbook searches like Magician/Secrets along with Dark Hole but no power plays. This is hardly a situation you want to be in either as the relevant decks, especially Geargia and Mermail, can swiftly get through your backrow and deal damage. Dark Hole could literally be any other card here to get your pieces faster or stop their plays completely, rather than allowing them to do plays and clearing the board in your turn.

 

Moving on from the Dark Hole discussion. How do people feel about playing this deck in the current format? I feel like it's currently the strongest deck I own (Don't have Geargia/other good decks) but in previous formats I've not had much success with it outside of online dueling. Part of that I feel is how I play irl compared to online and the other is just certain cards just bury the deck very hard. So with people playing multiple veilers or even going as far as to play Geargia lists the like of Steinman/Pedigo's (Triple Dust, Triple Mind Crush) is this deck even remotely safe to play right now?

 

I think it's an alright choice, if you don't have anything better. Bujins I do not think is remotely a threat to this deck, it's a pretty easy match up I think. Fire fist hasn't been a problem either. Mermail has been 50/50 I think, but the side board has helped. But my only concern is like you said the geargia match-up, as that deck can just pump out more advantage then this deck, and being able to use 6 mst for our tower/ backrow and mind crush hurts setting up. 

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Dont Forget    609

Black Horn is bad v the mirror, but Mirror Force and Dark Hole are more optimal?

If all of your fears come from the established board, and you all are wanting a quick and easy way around it, I don't think Justice of Prophecy/High Priestess is the method you're looking for, and you should be looking more into World/Temperance, it requires a bit less set up but you also have to accept the occasional bad hand that comes with it.

 

well all spellboook decks have trouble against established board and both decks have their outs, so tht doenst mean i shud play the justice build ova the world build that's up to what the player wants to play.

Fair enuff mirror and and dark hole isnt that effective in the mirror but black horn is a whole lot worse in the mirror and in my testing literally sits there for turn and turns against many decks wen a mirror force or hole wud of been so much more helpful. i not saying horn is a bad card but honest i think it shud be left in the side and replaced for less situational traps. 

 

Seriously, dark hole is one of the best cards in the game it considered by many has a staple, so why are soooo many ppl against running it. theres is less floaters in the game now however u still have dracoosack and spellbook of wisdom and forbidden lance but thats still a 1 for 1 and if the have a big board lance and widsom and dracosack cant protect everthing also wtf goes into stardust anymore or runs starlight road, so no need to worry about them either. bujins hate stuff that dont target. the reasons go on.

 

it testing its either won me the games or saved my ass, spellsbook almost never have a big board and magician is a plus anyway so ur not going minus and we have a widsom (a searchable forbidden lance) like serious dark hole in this deck is a no brainer in my opinion dont know why no one is running it and don't bother with "there is no space" excuse  if there's space for 3 upstart, 3 cresents and black horn of heaven there is space for 1 dark hole.

If you think books have trouble vs an established field you are doing many things seriously wrong. As long as you don't brick there are very few fields you can't deal with and if you did brick who cares because you lose anyway.

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KennyK    79

I don't think gears will main dusts torando as the most popular deck will be gears.  The idea of people playing mind crush and veiler in the main though is a very scary thought for this deck for obvious reasons. 

 

Back to dark hole though for a second, I've been testing it the past few days, and while at some points it won me the duel, it sat dead in my hand a majority of the time as priestess+fate gets over most fields decks can make.  GGX floats and I feel geargia is what we should be building to beat right now.  Dark hole in the side might be a good idea though(side it in going second so we don't have to fate on our turn when we can only summon a blue boy.

 

 

 

edit:After thinking a bit more, I think mind crush might be a better card to play as it hurts bujins, books and gears to hit the cards in the hand before they can establish a field altogether, rather than wait for the opponent to end so we can dark hole after the damage is done.

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dexer008    805

I don't think gears will main dusts torando as the most popular deck will be gears.  The idea of people playing mind crush and veiler in the main though is a very scary thought for this deck for obvious reasons. 

 

Back to dark hole though for a second, I've been testing it the past few days, and while at some points it won me the duel, it sat dead in my hand a majority of the time as priestess+fate gets over most fields decks can make.  GGX floats and I feel geargia is what we should be building to beat right now.  Dark hole in the side might be a good idea though(side it in going second so we don't have to fate on our turn when we can only summon a blue boy.

 

 

 

edit:After thinking a bit more, I think mind crush might be a better card to play as it hurts bujins, books and gears to hit the cards in the hand before they can establish a field altogether, rather than wait for the opponent to end so we can dark hole after the damage is done.

Dust Tornado will see play I'm sure, and yeah, mind crush is scary used against us. I expect veiler to die down on play though to the side because he isn't useful right now for a number of match ups

 

Dark hole is great sided against gears. You can also side it alongside 3 cyber dragon/cyber dragon core for chimeratech wipes for the geargia match-up and in general for going second, but the problem here would be them siding in dna surgery I think. Mind crush is pretty eh, and mean all the advantage from geargia's is free, so why it may slow them down, it will not stop them indefinitely. And while we are still talking about side board cards, I saw an interesting article on trap eater on tcgplayer while searching for some prophecy builds. Do you think it could serve it well against this format? Side in against skill drain, dna surgery, fiendish chain and what not? Being a lv4 tuner as well means you can access the extra deck abit more (lv6's, 7's, star eater)

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Suuwo    647

Trap eater sucks. Usually the damage has been done by whatever cont. trap they brought in. Lack of chainability hurts and there are plenty of sided cards they can bring in that don't take the form of a continuous trap card. Honestly, you're better off with more chainable s/t removal so you get your effects off

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_Juice    3
So I've been playing the deck since world became a thing. That version of the deck is the only type I'm truly Comfortable with, but it seems that the priestess and justice builds are the most optimal way to win. My question is, would it be a good decision to change from a 1 world 2 priestess build to the priestess build for my regionals this weekend. And if so, what are some T1 combos that I should familiarize myself with?

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_Juice    3
So I've been playing the deck since world became a thing. That version of the deck is the only type I'm truly Comfortable with, but it seems that the priestess and justice builds are the most optimal way to win. My question is, would it be a good decision to change from a 1 world 2 priestess build to the priestess build for my regionals this weekend. And if so, what are some T1 combos that I should familiarize myself with?

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_Juice    3
So I've been playing the deck since world became a thing. That version of the deck is the only type I'm truly Comfortable with, but it seems that the priestess and justice builds are the most optimal way to win. My question is, would it be a good decision to change from a 1 world 2 priestess build to the priestess build for my regionals this weekend. And if so, what are some T1 combos that I should familiarize myself with?

Sorry for the double reply, my phone is acting up.

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┬╗.ben.    7437

I am inclined to leave your triple post intact because they are your first three posts :)

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Anicor    0

I think not, just because in testing that build it is a VERY different playstyle to world, you would have to get used to not having your bosses straight away which would require some practice

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dexer008    805

I don't think justice build is that hard to pick up. I mean, it still sets up fate the same as world build. If you open justice T1 and get the summon to stick, do not set fate, or activate tower etc, obviously because they're now susceptible to s/t destruction, and you won't be able to use them (tower needs spellcaster in grave at least). try to set up priestess drop with wisdom in hand, etc. You still recycle fate the same, just have to be careful not to cut it off through priestess second effect. Finally, you can either go the 100% consistency route with triple duality, upstart, crescent, reckless greed, or you cut a few of those and add a few more traps. The former maxes consistency while giving up most defense and sticking to triple fiendish, bth, torrential, warning, compulse maybe, while the latter helps you survive longer by adding some other defense such as black horn, maybe d prsion or mirror force, book of moon etc.. 

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_Juice    3


I am inclined to leave your triple post intact because they are your first three posts :)


Thank you! I was genuinely scared that people were going to tear me a new one when I noticed I posted 3 times!

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_Juice    3
My main concern about switching to the priestess build is dealing with a deck that is able to spam and bait super hard. I feel that world gives me such an unfair advantage, plus punishes overextending in a way that priestess cannot.

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Anicor    0

That's the feeling I had. I guess it's not too different a deck, but blue-boy turn 1 and justice turn one seem very unprotected plays. Especially blue boy turn 1 since it more often than not means justice turn 2 and so that's 2 turns without any solid protection (barring traps ofc)
I guess I'll have to practice it more

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dexer008    805

Yeah, but in a larger tournament you will brick way less often with the priestess build.

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Anicor    0

Yeah that's undeniable. Approaching it again, I really see what you mean but at the same time I can see the main thing you lose from running pure priestess is top decking an out to an established board. Not sure how relevant that is though having not tried it out in a tournament

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_Juice    3
So what im understanding is that if the format is really aggressive and fast paced, the world variant wins easier (when you don't open unplayable), and for priestess, you give up that power to add consistancy. But going back to my previous post, how does the priestess variant deal with decks like water, blackwings, or geargia?

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dexer008    805

With water and geargia, it's all about fating the right card and stopping their pushes. Idk when you would vs blackwings, but if it's for your locals then Treat them like bujins I guess and don't attack the monsters in fear of kalut, and use wisdom wisely for their traps. Skill drain could be a bitch, but there are builds that have mained mst, so if that's something you face in your local meta you could also do that.

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KennyK    79
Not that blackwings are even a problem, fate their monsters on summon so they can't get the whirlwind search and the deck falls apart within a few turns.

Water is all knowing what to fate based on what they have searched and making a judgment call and knowing the interaction power has with that deck.

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_Juice    3


With water and geargia, it's all about fating the right card and stopping their pushes. Idk when you would vs blackwings, but if it's for your locals then Treat them like bujins I guess and don't attack the monsters in fear of kalut, and use wisdom wisely for their traps. Skill drain could be a bitch, but there are builds that have mained mst, so if that's something you face in your local meta you could also do that.


But what do I do after they've already set up their board?

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dexer008    805

Just try and grind through it. Because of situations like that, I've upped wisdom to 2, it's a better ratio I think for it this format. I'm also considering maybe maining mst/ breaker as well, just to get through it and to drop the priestess/ world. 

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Mr Cook    473

hEnmgD7.png

 

Here's the deck I've been playing the last two weeks. It is not anything overly revolutionary, but I feel as if this deck is an incredibly solid pick. You have a very strong Bujin matchup, and Geargia is not terrible. 

 

The two big decks (at least at the moment), Bujin and Geargia, have a hard time dropping more than 1 threat per turn. At least, Gears need a somewhat good setup to do more than that. So that is a perfect situation for Fate being able to nuke a threat every turn. You'll need a suite of regular Traps to help against Geargia, and Water, because Water still does swarm you. But with only 1 Gunde it is not as bad as before. The Dragons are still a problem, but I think unless that deck gets innovated again it will not last 11 rounds in a field of Bujin and Geargia. 

 

At first, this format seems to be very slow. Which is fantastic news for Books. You can afford to grind out games turn by turn and slowly accumulate advantage. I do not think World is the answer to making this deck amazing. Drawing him is straight up awful. My list (which is only a couple cards off I guess from the YCS Chicago guy?) is designed to get you to your cards as quickly as possible. You can say Reckless Greed is terrible all you want, but you NEED to get your Books. That's how you lose, by not drawing Books. One of the biggest reasons I play Justice is so that I can add that crucial Spellbook along with Priestess to my hand. Justice gives you a total of 12 ways to get Secrets (assuming you open a live Book to go with it). Justice even just gives you raw Card advantage for no reason, too. I remember once Josh said "I'll just add DaD and ROTA to my hand" after resolving a Justice and he was so right about that. Duality and Upstart do conflict with Crescent I will not lie, but to be honest I will always just throw the Crescent down (unless I desperately need to see Secrets to answer a field) and save the Duality and Upstart for subsequent turns. Unless you're playing against Water, in the early game, you're not going to eat 8k consistently anymore. And that's what the other traps help with. You can afford to play with Blue Boy for a turn and threaten the Priestess drop next turn.

 

Side cards keep changing not entirely sure on everything yet. I MIGHT drop 1 crescent for 1 MST but that's the only change I could really see myself making. 

 

Been playing that exact main deck for about 2-3 weeks now, has been really really solid.

 

The only brick hands you really get with this deck now with this variant is something along the lines of 2 Crescent + Duality + Upstart, which can be completely horrible, thankfully that happens a lot less than drawing a World, or discard Traps in a bad hand etc, etc...

 

In the case of dropping Crescent to 2, I can see why you would do that, by doing so you lower the percentage of hitting that T1 Fate for 3, but reduce the amount of dead Crescents after T1, I've not done enough of the maths behind that yet (I'll actually get on with that) to see exactly how big an impact it makes (both on the T1 3-Book Fate, and on how much it reduces your chances of drawing, or opening multiple Crescent) - but off the top of my head I can't see playing 2 being hugely worse than playing 3, I assume the ratios will most likely balance each other out, but we'll see.

 

To replace the 3rd Crescent, I don't think I'd play an MST in the main, outside of rogue stuff like Evilswam with mained Mistake, and rogue like Madolche/Harpies (pre-Prio this is) who play Field Spells over your Tower, I can't see the benefit of playing MST in the main at all, its a defensive card which is less effective than other real defensive cards, sure you can snipe Abyss-Spheres and Call of the Haunteds to stop your opponent pushing, but there's very little space in this deck for anything which isn't:

A) A Spellbook/Prophecy card

B) A way to get to a Spellbook/Prophecy card

C) A way to defend early game and ensure you live enough to win with Prophecy cards

 

Stuff like Fiendish Chain and other backrow falls under category C, and when categorising it like this, MST is very weak when compared to other backrow which can be played.

 

I side in a set of MST, and potentially 1-2 Dust Tornado, simply because floodgates are still a thing, and if you don't give yourself a variety of outs to floodgates you can lose games in an instant, however floodgates won't really be mained this format G1, because there's too much variety. A deck which throws in mained Mistake or LIM or Iron Wall just won't last 10-11 rounds with the amount of different decks still seeing play that those cards are generally ineffective against.

 

Anyways, I feel the main is pretty much spot-on, it is the side deck that will determine how well someone pilots this deck in a tournament. Like has been mentioned, the beginning of this format is slow, and that's great news, there are dangers however, or people would just be flocking to Spellbooks (or not, because this deck always seems under-represented) in the form of Geargia, which will most likely take the spot of the early-running best deck. Mained Mind Crush/Dust Tornado really hits hard against this deck and if the format plays out where people follow this as a standard Geargia build, then we'll have to shift to adapt to that.

 

Other threats are decks which can still just kill you quicker than you can set-up, Mythic Ruler, Hieratic Ruler and Water all still exist in one form or another. This is where I feel you have to tailor the Side Deck to give you the best chance of winning G2/G3 against this sort of deck. You will come across a G1 against one of these decks and they will open well and just drop full aggro on you, and you will lose, so optimising G2/G3 against these decks is crucial in surviving 10-11 rounds.

 

My Side Deck at the moment looks something like: 

 

3 Maxx C

2 Effect Veiler

1 Jowgen the Spiritualist

1 Dimensional Fissure

1 Soul Drain

3 MST

1 Dust Tornado

3 Mind Crush

 

Its still a work in progress considering we haven't had a major event this format yet, but from the kind of decks that I've been seeing, this looks like the best call. Bujin/Noble Knight matches are hugely in our favour, as is 4-axis Fire. 

 

Maxx C is the best card in the side deck for us, I know the merits of Maxx C have been discussed over and over and over again, but I don't see how you can play any less than 3 in the side. It is pretty much blanket protection against any deck which is better in the early game than we are, it ensures in a lot of cases that decks can't kill you early which is the biggest weakness of Spellbooks.

 

Your Maxx C/Veiler/Jowgen comes in as the main defensive engine against Hieratics, when you play that deck, you stop their push and you pretty much win the game, the deck just cannot grind on our level. And to a lesser extent this also covers Mythic Rulers, which despite being Dragon Ruler-based, still struggles to put down more than 1 threat each turn (even if they do recur easily enough) Maxx also goes in against Water, gathering easy +1s with EP Sphere plays, keeping up with Pike/Turge combos, and stifling them enough early game so you can set up your own field.

 

I have a tendency to go on tangents so this stuff isn't really connected that well, its just a bunch of ideas I'm throwing into this discussion, I think this deck is a sleeper for pre-PRIO especially, but I think it will again be under-represented due to the fact that this deck takes a huge level of concentration and focus to play properly at a 10-11 round event.

 

Side Deck is where the hot discussion should be at, the main deck practically builds itself (probably 3-4 spots which could be discussed)

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Mr Cook    473

Just try and grind through it. Because of situations like that, I've upped wisdom to 2, it's a better ratio I think for it this format. I'm also considering maybe maining mst/ breaker as well, just to get through it and to drop the priestess/ world. 

 

I don't see any benefit in upping Wisdom to 2, its not a Book which helps start off your combos (unless you open Justice/Wisdom and nothing else, and even that isn't a great play) - it doesn't contribute to the ideal T1 setup, which is [Fate for 3, Eternity, Tower] or [Justice + Spelbook + Defensive Traps] - its searchable from deck by about 16 cards, and you can retrieve your Graved/Banished copy with Tower/Eternity.

 

So, yeah, not seeing why Wisdom to 2 is so great. My thoughts about MST/Breaker mained are above as well :)

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McGinty    290
The deck literally dosent win unless you see and resolve HPoP so double wisdom lets you actually do that and is also a book. Play two. It's even better than double eternity.
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