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+rap tap    20145
i was speaking in general terms there, irrespective of lance;
the benefit of doing it the second way is you get to see 2 new cards before you decide to commit to the djinn play (and with it being in the grave you can revisit the option later barring rhapsody)

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902    1773
The combo with laval which is worse is a 2 card combo. The one with valk draws and only a Claus on the field is a 4 card combo, so you do the valk one when you can and laval when you can't
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Kanade    1532

Hey guys been trying to play through some hands with this deck and I just end up lost when trying to figure out specific combos. I've been hearing a lot about a Djinn lock with 5 in hand as well as a T1 Valk Emeral play and a T1 Valk Djinn'd Claus. I know we really look down on asking for hand outs but I just can't seem to figure out said combo's.

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GerardoSDR    173

Hey guys been trying to play through some hands with this deck and I just end up lost when trying to figure out specific combos. I've been hearing a lot about a Djinn lock with 5 in hand as well as a T1 Valk Emeral play and a T1 Valk Djinn'd Claus. I know we really look down on asking for hand outs but I just can't seem to figure out said combo's.

to make the regular (and worst) djinn lock you need 1 manju and 1 unicore/kaleidoscope, you simply summon manju, search for w/e piece is missing to summon unicore, summon unicore dumping herald, search for clausolas, discard clausolas to search for cycle, overlay manju and unicore for lavalval chain, mill djinn and use cycle to revive the clausolas banishing djinn as the cost, your field will be lavalval chain and clausolas and you would have 3 cards in hand

 

the good (and harder to get) lock requieres you to have in your hand 1 manju, 1 unicore, 1 shurit and 1 valkyrus or any way to get to those, you summon manju, search kaleidoscope, summon unicore with kaleido dumping herald, search for clausolas, dump clausolas to search for mirror, summon valkyrus with mirror dumping shurit, search for a brionacwith the shurit, overlay the manju and unicore to make lavalval chain, dump djinn, tribute valk and lavalval to draw 2 cards, banish the unicore and valkyrus to search for a cycle and a mirror, use the cycle to revive the clausolas, you end up with clausolas on the field, 1 mirror, 1 brionac and 3 other cards in hand. edit: and 1 shurit in graveyard for the full cost of the mirror

 

I know you dont have to strictly start with those 4 cards, but you get the general idea, i wasnt going to write down every single combination that ends up in the lock

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Hey guys been trying to play through some hands with this deck and I just end up lost when trying to figure out specific combos. I've been hearing a lot about a Djinn lock with 5 in hand as well as a T1 Valk Emeral play and a T1 Valk Djinn'd Claus. I know we really look down on asking for hand outs but I just can't seem to figure out said combo's.


For the Djinn lock and ending with 5 cards.

You will have to open with Manju, Prep, Claus and Unicore or Senju, Prep, Claus and Kaliedo.

1. Summon Manju/Senju and search for Kaliedo/Unicore.
2. Activate Kaliedo and Search for Valk
3. Activate Prep and get back Kaliedo and Search for Brio
4. Discard Claus and Brio and Search for Mirror and Shurit
5. Activate Mirror sending Shurit and summon Valk and Search for Brio/Trish
6. Overlay for Lavalval and detach to send Quinn
7. Valk both to draw 2
8. Banish Mirror and any Nekroz monster and Search for cycle
9. Activate cycle banishing djinn and summon claus
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.Sammy    41

I think in every above scenario that the Shurit should be searching Trishula. Because Trish + Lance + Djinn is perfect lock and Lance is unsearchable but you have a higher chance of seeing it after Valk.

 

I wouldn't think too much into it about not locking if you don't have Lance and don't draw Lance off of Valk, because a) if you don't lock here they WILL Rhapsody your graved Djinn and b) (again common sense) you started with 5 cards and end with 6, one of which auto-wins you the game if they don't have the out and if they do kill it they are still using a resource to out it, then have to further use resources to make Trish. Then you have 4 in hand and draw a fifth for turn. Unless they got lucky with their 20% chance of banishing your Trish in hand with their own Trish, your counter Trish is usually KO. Also this is based on the assumption that a) they shouldn't have the available resources to Trish then follow up with Valk + Emeral unless they opened a pretty perfect hand, which is obviously harder to come by since the list comes effect or b) they aren't good enough to try minimize damage from your counter Trish. Late rounds of swiss and then again in top cut obviously things change a wee bit, but not enough to void the above statements. 

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Deladox    1
Since shaddoll have risen in popularity after the banlist and them maining 3 mistake and 3 village is quite rough, even though they are not nearly as consistent, how are you feeling about dance princess in the main? Is it also worth siding dust tornado or typhoon for thia matchup since them together is almost game.

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Warthog    165
I am playing Math right now so I have basic answers but if playing a standard build I wouldn't worry about it and side Princess or find room to play one. There is no set yes or no answers so I would play the way you prefer. Pros is that Princess or Sage doesn't suck ass and have some uses and the only cons being you still have to normal summon it and waste a brio search on it to break a Village lock.

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Kanapesh    99
Player A:
Djinn, set Lance, Trishula in hand

Player B:
Snipe Hunter, 2 in hand

Snipe Hunter, discard 1 and target Clausolas.
Opponent chains Trishula to negate the activation of Snipe Hunter.
Snipe Hunter, discard 1 and target Clausolas (Lance can't help)
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!Shining Bind!    220

Player A:
Djinn, set Lance, Trishula in hand

Player B:
Snipe Hunter, 2 in hand

Snipe Hunter, discard 1 and target Clausolas.
Opponent chains Trishula to negate the activation of Snipe Hunter.
Snipe Hunter, discard 1 and target Clausolas (Lance can't help)


I've been using Snipe in Infernoid to out the lock and it's incredible. The problem is in the Nekroz mirror you're downing potentially 2/3 cards, meaning you just lose if your opponent has any sort of follow up

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Virtuoso    104

since my friend said this isnt cute enough to be viable ill just say it here. Koaki mieru ice is searchable non-targeting monster destruction for djinn. it even has the bonus of being able to destroy itself in the EP to dodge an incoming trish if you dont want to extend that turn. i mean, while we are on the topic of snipe hunter

 

woops, ruling page says the card targets

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+Urthor    10182

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  

 

 

Or well, ok I guess

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GerardoSDR    173

since my friend said this isnt cute enough to be viable ill just say it here. Koaki mieru ice is searchable non-targeting monster destruction for djinn. it even has the bonus of being able to destroy itself in the EP to dodge an incoming trish if you dont want to extend that turn. i mean, while we are on the topic of snipe hunter

 

woops, ruling page says the card targets

how is that thing searchable? the thing is aqua-type and it's obviously not a ritual nor a nekroz, how do you even thought it was searchable?

 

 

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  

 

 

Or well, ok I guess

indeed exiled force is the best searchable one other than armageddon, it doesnt leave a monster on the field if it fails (ddwl and doom lord do leave a monster if they fail, even doomlord leaves a monster if it doesnt fail), it doesnt makes you lose your bp (ddwl makes you lose and so as doomlord)

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!Shining Bind!    220

since my friend said this isnt cute enough to be viable ill just say it here. Koaki mieru ice is searchable non-targeting monster destruction for djinn. it even has the bonus of being able to destroy itself in the EP to dodge an incoming trish if you dont want to extend that turn. i mean, while we are on the topic of snipe hunter
 
woops, ruling page says the card targets

how is that thing searchable? the thing is aqua-type and it's obviously not a ritual nor a nekroz, how do you even thought it was searchable?
 
 

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  
 
 
Or well, ok I guess

indeed exiled force is the best searchable one other than armageddon, it doesnt leave a monster on the field if it fails (ddwl and doom lord do leave a monster if they fail, even doomlord leaves a monster if it doesnt fail), it doesnt makes you lose your bp (ddwl makes you lose and so as doomlord)

Diamond Core of Koa'ki Meiru

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GerardoSDR    173

 

 

since my friend said this isnt cute enough to be viable ill just say it here. Koaki mieru ice is searchable non-targeting monster destruction for djinn. it even has the bonus of being able to destroy itself in the EP to dodge an incoming trish if you dont want to extend that turn. i mean, while we are on the topic of snipe hunter
 
woops, ruling page says the card targets

how is that thing searchable? the thing is aqua-type and it's obviously not a ritual nor a nekroz, how do you even thought it was searchable?
 
 

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  
 
 
Or well, ok I guess

indeed exiled force is the best searchable one other than armageddon, it doesnt leave a monster on the field if it fails (ddwl and doom lord do leave a monster if they fail, even doomlord leaves a monster if it doesnt fail), it doesnt makes you lose your bp (ddwl makes you lose and so as doomlord)

Diamond Core of Koa'ki Meiru

 

i think it's pretty obvious what i meant, no one is rununing diamond core in the first place and it doesnt help at all to the engine

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Virtuoso    104

 

 

 

since my friend said this isnt cute enough to be viable ill just say it here. Koaki mieru ice is searchable non-targeting monster destruction for djinn. it even has the bonus of being able to destroy itself in the EP to dodge an incoming trish if you dont want to extend that turn. i mean, while we are on the topic of snipe hunter
 
woops, ruling page says the card targets

how is that thing searchable? the thing is aqua-type and it's obviously not a ritual nor a nekroz, how do you even thought it was searchable?
 
 

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  
 
 
Or well, ok I guess

indeed exiled force is the best searchable one other than armageddon, it doesnt leave a monster on the field if it fails (ddwl and doom lord do leave a monster if they fail, even doomlord leaves a monster if it doesnt fail), it doesnt makes you lose your bp (ddwl makes you lose and so as doomlord)

Diamond Core of Koa'ki Meiru

 

i think it's pretty obvious what i meant, no one is rununing diamond core in the first place

 

how was it obvious what you mean when you start talking about aqua, lol? i was just listing the pros of the card. "searchable? check" 

 

regardless, the most important point in that it doesnt target was incorrect in the first place so the card does not need further consideration. im sorry if i gave you any confusion. it has ~0 plusses over exiled.

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mark    3104

Something I see a lot of people doing is naming as much reasons as possible to run a card, to show how good a card is. However, this doesn't make a card good. I dont care if 'X' is searchable, chainable, good vs shaddoll or something and a light for BLS that we don't even run, sometimes good late game etc. when the majority of the time it will not be good. 
Naming a lot of reasons why a card is/could be good make a card sound better than it actually is. Looking at scenarios that are likely to happen and then deciding if the card changes the outcome of the duel, compared to other cards you could potentially play, is a way more accurate way to decide which cards to play in your deck. 

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A simple way to give yourself a deck building edge and avoid playing bad cards like Eclipse or Arma/Farfa could be just choosing to go first. Let's say you replace the 3/4 djinn out slots with cards that are just good all round like mind crush shared rides (if not already mained) or more obscure choices like trap hole nightmare / BTS . Doing unopposed (from shared ride mostly) Valk plays T1 then setting these type of cards make very good defense and if used correctly takes an opportunity for your opponent to djinn you out of the equation. ppl are generally choosing 2nd right now blind meaning you will be going 1st a lot without winning the die roll anyway giving this option even more strength.
Cons are Opp raw drawing djinn as hard for mind crush and co to stop then along with bad PPL who under shared ride and such will Yolo give you 5 cards and still win the game to your no 'Real' outs which can be frustrating.
Also I was noticing near end of format the more high rated DN mirrors I played the less I saw either player use djinn even when the 5 card lock was on , emeral + Valk or chain + Valk stacking another Valk/ unicore were safer routes to victory it seemed.
TL ; Dr I am considering cutting djinn , plus it's outs altogether for more rounded cards whilst maybe choosing 1st blind to avoid auto losing to t1 djinn.
Thoughts?
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GerardoSDR    173

A simple way to give yourself a deck building edge and avoid playing bad cards like Eclipse or Arma/Farfa could be just choosing to go first. Let's say you replace the 3/4 djinn out slots with cards that are just good all round like mind crush shared rides (if not already mained) or more obscure choices like trap hole nightmare / BTS . Doing unopposed (from shared ride mostly) Valk plays T1 then setting these type of cards make very good defense and if used correctly takes an opportunity for your opponent to djinn you out of the equation. ppl are generally choosing 2nd right now blind meaning you will be going 1st a lot without winning the die roll anyway giving this option even more strength.
Cons are Opp raw drawing djinn as hard for mind crush and co to stop then along with bad PPL who under shared ride and such will Yolo give you 5 cards and still win the game to your no 'Real' outs which can be frustrating.
Also I was noticing near end of format the more high rated DN mirrors I played the less I saw either player use djinn even when the 5 card lock was on , emeral + Valk or chain + Valk stacking another Valk/ unicore were safer routes to victory it seemed.
TL ; Dr I am considering cutting djinn , plus it's outs altogether for more rounded cards whilst maybe choosing 1st blind to avoid auto losing to t1 djinn.
Thoughts?

the problem with going first and setting up a field with shared ride or mind crush is that those are the only really good cards going first, traphole nightmare doesnt disrupt them enough, and asuming you run 3 copies of shared ride and 3 copies of mind crush it leaves you with only a 57.7% of drawing either of them, which in turn means that almost half of the time you decide to go first it will not give you any advantage at all, also keep in mind that they can djinn lock you at almost any point of the game and since you are usually wiping your own field they wont have any oposition to the lock as you wont be maining any outs

 

about cutting out the djinn, i've also consider that, I dunno about that one, we might need more testing to see if it still warrant a spot in the deck

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goats4dayz    20

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  

 

 

Or well, ok I guess

Isn't ddwl still just better than both? 

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GerardoSDR    173

 

I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  

 

 

Or well, ok I guess

Isn't ddwl still just better than both? 

 

ddwl is suceptible to valkyrus, which isnt much of a problem as they wont be searching for valk after the lock, but it leaves you without bp and in case they do have the valk you are left vulnerable to trishula

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Virtuoso    104

it is, he was talking about the snipe hunter niche having a rota target already in exiled force. i personally dont think the djinn problem is going to be perfectly solved for a while. i still think eclipse is the best card you can have, even counting lance. if they have the lance, they have the lance. there was nothing you were going to do about that other than summon a denko over it first or stall until you can chain eclipse to raigeki/eclipse

 

^ right now the status quo is to add a trish and not a valk after you play your turn if you are going for an even semi defendable lock, so unless you drew a valk naturally, ddwl is going to be better than exiled in every real scenario. though making djinn with half assed protection shouldnt be done anyway as it loses games when broke

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I mean, Exiled Force is a better KM Ice if you're going down that line pretty sure.  

 

 

Or well, ok I guess

exiled force + rota = wow 

 

Im not saying its a good idea but the idea does seem interesting. 

 

Your putting a bad card in your deck but atleast its searchable and could somewhat have a good chance against the djinn lock assuming the opponent doesnt have their counters ready but it lacks the versatility that other counters have so meh...

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