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+PSK    4336
This is to be used as a platform for the discussion of the section's Meta and any suggestions on how to best improve it. 
 
Preferably, this is to be an outlet for the condemning or praising of certain playstyles or game design that will allow for the Meta to improve itself without intervention being required. 
 
The content that is applicable to this thread is already being posted in the form of separate threads or within after-game threads. It is now to be collated here. 
 
Feel free to discuss and argue any aspects of the Meta here. Use this as a platform to improve yourselves and each other. 

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+Satchmo    3220

Say it with me now

Teamwork

Teamwork makes the Dream Work

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Ammit    5159

claiming games i feel make the game a much bigger clusterfuck, outside of not allowing scanner to straight up out a scum scan. also if it is a claiming game, town shouldn't claim until it's necessary, ie you're about to get lynched and you're an important role, or you have useful info regarding scum.

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LFN    3183

claiming vs not claiming depends on the theme and the roles included

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+The Antagonist    1706

town shouldn't claim until it's necessary


QFE, claiming vt (when not pressured to do so) when you actually are vt is awful because it's an easy safeclaim and it means you are far less likely to draw away a nk, etc.
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confuse rei    5552

We've had not claiming vs claiming a bunch of times and people are going to stand their ground on it for the most part.

 

non claiming is far more skillful if you ask me because you have to work more on who is scum/town and less on 'oh he claimed this, lol -1', and it has the added bonus that it unties the game host's hands because you can add much more colourful abilities to the mix, that you cant do with claiming because they would confirm themselves if you did

 

The only 'serious' drawback of non claiming is that people are too bold to actually grasp the insanely easy concept of 'dont motherfucking claim' and people get modkilled. Its hilariously sad but this is the only reason i have even considered hosting claiming games, even if you make it crystal clear to everyone and explain pms over and over there still will be that idiot who is either dumb enough to not understand it and/or that bigger idiot who wants to ruin the game and abuse the rules and test your patience limits.

 

' Hey guys i think the vig is either ------->>ZAPPDOS<<---------, auri or lfn' ( completely random example. Not really.)

 

And then in the pm discussion there is always an outrageous excuse like

 

'Hey you said i couldnt claim, you didnt say i couldnt bold my name and put flashy arrows around it!'

 

 

full claiming makes it easier for the host to just lay back and let the town do whatever the fuck towns do and not police the thread.

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confuse rei    5552

plus there are a bunch of people who would go 'oh, this is a non claiming game? yeah i dont want to play then', while people who like non claiming would play claiming games

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confuse rei    5552

Non claiming is too town favored. Roles can still soft and essentially claim

If cop posts a trust list and dies, town essentially knows the result

omg how could i forget about this

 

'hey when you say 'dont motherfucking claim' do you mean about soft claims as well or just full claims?

 

No, they dont 'essentially claim' because that defeats the purpose of no claiming. If they 'essentially claim', its either a game design problem or a host being too loose and not enforcing rules or a mixture of both.

 

And the cop trust list thing is completely irrelevant, in the claiming game cop would claim cop and post trust list, netting him one more scum because healer knows who he is, confirming himself in the process. In the no claiming game, majority of the town wouldnt even realize it until post death, so no confirming himself, and scum can get to him much earlier. It also makes scanner a much more challenging role instead of 'derp scan + claim when needed' If anything, that example supports my point.

 

The fact I didnt make it onto the last supper pic is kind of really disappointing

OIHkw8k.jpg

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Non claiming is too town favored. Roles can still soft and essentially claim

If cop posts a trust list and dies, town essentially knows the result

omg how could i forget about this
 
'hey when you say 'dont motherfucking claim' do you mean about soft claims as well or just full claims?
 
No, they dont 'essentially claim' because that defeats the purpose of no claiming. If they 'essentially claim', its either a game design problem or a host being too loose and not enforcing rules or a mixture of both.
 
And the cop trust list thing is completely irrelevant, in the claiming game cop would claim cop and post trust list, netting him one more scum because healer knows who he is, confirming himself in the process. In the no claiming game, majority of the town wouldnt even realize it until post death, so no confirming himself, and scum can get to him much earlier. It also makes scanner a much more challenging role instead of 'derp scan + claim when needed' If anything, that example supports my point.
 

The fact I didnt make it onto the last supper pic is kind of really disappointing

OIHkw8k.jpg
100%

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website is bad    2170

I mean the actual issue of claiming vs non-claiming is town players absolutely don't understand the concept of tactical lying so everyone spills their guts in the first 2 days.

  • Upvote 4

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+Gemstone Mine    2590

Having a mix of the two doesn't bother me, but I don't remember us playing a no-claim game in a while. Even if we have, the last 5 or so have been claiming and I think the large majority of our games are claiming, and I really do prefer non-claim games.

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website is bad    2170

I have actually never even played a non-claim game until I started playing on DGz it's a really weird concept to me since role claims are just info and info is the crux of the game.

 

That's also why I like to avoid just plain ol cops. Not because of power concerns but because it's a very straightforward and easy way to get info. Either limiting the cop in some way (tying it to voting for example) or not having a cop and adding trackers/watchers (which are about the same in power but require more smarts from the player to get the same result) are ways that make sense. It's actually almost criminal tracker/watcher aren't popular roles here.

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