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Human Tetherball

Almost got jumped; buying a gun.

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Jazz    5098
11 hours ago, Human Tetherball said:

oh cool this thread got more useless stupid posts.

 

Almost everyone who posted originally gave you good advice and you just dismissed it or ignored it to write a fucking internet novel about why you love guns so god damn much and why they make you feel safer, but you're still just a paranoid moron. You refuse to examine the world from the perspective of others, yet you came to us asking for advice. People tried being nice, you ignored it, you got shit for your stubbornness, and now you're just being a douche. Enjoy your miserable, shitty life.

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Jazz    5098
On 9/17/2017 at 6:17 PM, Human Tetherball said:


We've reached the point ITT where I'm not seeking advice but giving it.

 

How did I miss this comment. You're such a fucking tool.

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Jazz    5098

Also fuck you for calling other people classist when they suggest you move when you cite that you live in an area of high crime and you don't feel safe. That's not classism, that's common fucking sense. My great/grandparents immigrated to this country because Europe turned into a shit hole during the world wars. You have it really fucking easy, you dumb cunt.

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13 hours ago, Human Tetherball said:

You're just so fucking stupid it's hard to pin down whether I even want to defend myself from your shitty George Zimmerman comparison or try to parse the logic of letting yourself get beat up because you just KNOW that the people who don't respect your bodily integrity and attacked you unprovoked are good people deep down and won't cripple, maim, or kill you because reasons. The incident that triggered all of this wasn't because aggressive people specifically followed me to my vehicle, it was because I'm scared of kids in hoodies in the general path of normal transit. Clearly.

I wrote enough words in this thread, try to actually understand sentences I use and what order they occur in and the contexts established by all the other words that have relationships with those words and concepts before twisting them or putting extra ones in my mouth. That goes for all you assholes who think anything like the above. Many of you didn't read what I said. You got halfway through a given paragraph and assume I said what you think I said, rather than what was actually written. That's why I've had to repeat myself so many fucking times and frankly I'm done doing it. Stop projecting.

You know I'm actually 100% pro-self defense and pro-gun but it worries me that you don't seem to understand that this is a last resort option and you should be thinking heaven forbid I actually have to ever use deadly force of any kind on even the shittiest of human beings. Nor does it look like you have a good sense of what that heaven forbid situation would look like.  

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Nate1080    1224

Saw this video a couple months ago, not sure if it was posted here but super relevant:

 

 

You’re more likely to get hurt/killed trying some slick shit than if you just let it happen. As said in the video, if anything, mace is enough. No need to needlessly kill someone or threaten them with a gun and possibly get killed yourself (most likely outcome tbh considering how quick you had the thought of getting a gun after a situation. Those people are the first to get killed).

 

The person mugging or jumping you or whatever usually doesn’t have intentions to kill you, they just want your shit.  They carry weapons usually for their protection, ironically.

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»Flacko    2145

yeah dont use a knife btw if you're not trained. and dont buy a cheap knife with a weak guard. the most common self injury from a knife comes from stabbing and a guard breaking and slicing your hand. 

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Sophocles    2977
On 23-8-2017 at 7:21 PM, Sophocles said:

 

I wouldnt kill someone to keep my phone tbh js imo

 

 

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»Flacko    2145

sophocles sucks as mafia so much that he chooses not to kill scum.

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Sophocles    2977

nah im just third party, my wincon is making markus so salty he quits the section

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Jazz    5098

Yeah gun violence not a big deal at all right?

 

-oh wait

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On 8/20/2017 at 0:54 AM, Human Tetherball said:

Situational awareness and instinct were my weapons this time. I wouldn't have done much different because drawing a firearm is a commitment to a life-or-death action. It would mean standing my ground and killing someone. I was (barely) able to get away without a direct confrontation. I was lucky. There were several points in this incident in which I could have been engaged in a direct confrontation:

-If their pace was faster, or were running at me rather than stalking. She could've run up on me if she wanted to, and dude probably could've too if he wasn't going the long way on purpose.
-If I was attacked as I passed them initially; I would run to get clear distance, and continue running until I determined that a fight was necessary, if it were necessary.

She was just slow enough for me to be able to get into my car and lock my doors. By the time I had my keys in the ignition and seatbelt on, she was very close to my rear driver side door. I looked carefully because I didn't want to hit her if I could avoid it.  One of the things that crossed my mind was being in a disadvantageous position while entering my vehicle or shortly after (or shortly before), and that is when I would've used a gun. The point right when you are damned sure you are in harm's way and have to use it.

More below relevant to subject and other posters.
(I don't mean to condescend if you already know all this).

Weapons are tools of absolute last resort, when all other options are exhausted or impossible. I don't want blood on my hands, even if they're trying to harm me, it's a tough thing to live with, and there are many many potential legal consequences including a manslaughter conviction, civil suits etc. But as they say, "it's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six". You are as much of a human being as your attacker is and you have the right to live more than they have the right to try to ruin your shit.

Like, if you end up in one of those stupid "honorable fights" that sometimes come up between men while hammered over some idiotic conflict--a gun is not appropriate. You're not going to get killed, you're just consenting to potentially get your ass kicked. If you know you aren't in danger of serious injury or death, do not use your weapon. If you have no intention of engaging and some asshole just wants to kick your ass, fuck that, you have a right to use your weapon after you've declined violence and expressed a verbal warning not to attack. Don't just go popping off on someone over something that can solved through de-escalation.

De-escalation, like situational awareness, is a tool you can always use without negative consequences to prevent violence or harm to your person and you should learn how to do things like that in case it is possible to resolve a conflict non-violently. It is much better to look like a pussy than to be a murderer. One of those things is temporary, and can be forgotten. If you can placate an aggressor in any way that will not result in harm to your person, do it. If someone wants your wallet, it's not your wallet anymore, it's potentially your life--let them have the fucking wallet. Learn how to talk people down from states of high agitation, anger, potential intoxication, and social pressure to fight...

...You can hone situational awareness as a skill. You can practice it and should. It will help you do the right thing when the butterflies creep into your stomach. It is the most important skill. It tells you which situations can be avoided or de-escalated, and which ones can't.

So, what I would do differently if I had a gun was feel more in control of my situation should things escalate such that I avoid escalation even further. A minor change in variables and I could have been dead. It's a wake-up call that my ability to fight is deficient, but my situational awareness is not. I may have been able to sprint to my car instead, knowing that if it provokes a chase you have confirmation that you must act if you can't get away, and that you have a course of action that will protect you. If they didn't pursue in response to the sprint, congrats, you're alive and they are too. That's ideal. That's how you win the game under most circumstances. If you're in real danger, you win the game by killing (assume you will kill when you fire, they may just be injured, but know you are using a killing tool). It's not a game, but it's a useful metaphor.

I should also note that at the second your enemy begins to flee, every trigger pull is murder. You just have to end the conflict with you alive. If they are deterred by your action you have succeeded and no longer need to continue firing, so don't. Your real win condition is making your attacker stop and leave you alone, you getting away is the only thing that absolutely has to happen.

I cannot say with absolute certainty that my stalkers intended to kill me. If you get away like I did you never can. I'm sure I was going to be assaulted and robbed. You cannot ever truly know this but you have to assume that someone who is willing to violate you is also willing to kill you. They didn't point a weapon at me or otherwise threaten me and express a demand "give me your money" "give me your car". That didn't happen, otherwise I'd be down a wallet.

I'm just quoting myself where I say all of the things I am purported not to be saying apparently.

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:44 PM, Jazz said:

Also fuck you for calling other people classist when they suggest you move when you cite that you live in an area of high crime and you don't feel safe. That's not classism, that's common fucking sense. My great/grandparents immigrated to this country because Europe turned into a shit hole during the world wars. You have it really fucking easy, you dumb cunt.

The reason it's classist is because you (and others) are condescending to me as though this obvious solution has not occurred to me, and that I am not actively working on it by taking on more hours, cutting spending, going up for a promotion, throwing as much money into the debt pile as I can, etc. I should move out of the dangerous place? No shit, Sherlock.

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:34 PM, Jazz said:

 

Almost everyone who posted originally gave you good advice and you just dismissed it or ignored it to write a fucking internet novel about why you love guns so god damn much and why they make you feel safer, but you're still just a paranoid moron. You refuse to examine the world from the perspective of others, yet you came to us asking for advice. People tried being nice, you ignored it, you got shit for your stubbornness, and now you're just being a douche. Enjoy your miserable, shitty life.

I got some good feedback and then I got a bunch of people accusing me of saying shit I wasn't saying, doing shit I'm not doing, etc.

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On 2/13/2018 at 5:42 PM, Nate1080 said:

Saw this video a couple months ago, not sure if it was posted here but super relevant:

 

You’re more likely to get hurt/killed trying some slick shit than if you just let it happen. As said in the video, if anything, mace is enough. No need to needlessly kill someone or threaten them with a gun and possibly get killed yourself (most likely outcome tbh considering how quick you had the thought of getting a gun after a situation. Those people are the first to get killed).

 

The person mugging or jumping you or whatever usually doesn’t have intentions to kill you, they just want your shit.  They carry weapons usually for their protection, ironically.

Thank you for a constructive post. If someone wants my shit they can have it, I'm not looking to fight over a wallet either. It's noteworthy that dude in the video tells his victims his motivation. Without that information what do I have to go on should the worst come to worst? 'Usually' isn't 'always' and there needs to be some consideration for that at some point. I'm not sure I should expect to making that call halfway through a curb-stomping.

As for what I've actually done in the intervening months besides get a gun, read a bunch of articles, and practice shooting:

I coordinated with other employees and we now park in the same lot and leave together after work, every night, with no exceptions. We finally convinced management that we needed real security instead of mall cops that leave as soon as the clock hit midnight, and now we do as of about three weeks ago and they walk with us too; they pack either tazers or pistols.  So, we finally got that shit done.

I'm really not that worried anymore but I still carry because something really insane might happen. I don't know if you've carried, but a gun is heavy. Not like, 26 oz loaded, but heavy.  The weight of the world sits in that holster. It's not something I consider trivial by any means and I aim not to use it, hopefully ever, for its intended purpose. My enthusiasm for firearms and my decision to carry--and the maintenance of that decision long after the initial fear has passed--are not to be interpreted as 'trigger-happiness'.

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On 2/13/2018 at 1:42 PM, Jazz said:

 

How did I miss this comment. You're such a fucking tool.

You missed it because you didn't read. I keep dealing with this problem, of course I'd be a cock about it.

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On 8/23/2017 at 0:41 PM, Human Tetherball said:

Same. But I don't think that these people tend to give a lot of dialogue options based on what I experienced. Technically, I have no fucking idea what they were after/what their goal was beyond interacting with me in a way I don't want with a high likelihood of force/easily interpreted menace.

If they said "I got a gun, gimme your wallet", they could have the wallet. But if they never state a demand, if they just go on the offense, their unclear motives are worst-case in your risk assessment. I would shoot someone to avoid being hurt by them, and hopefully they would stop and go away and not die or suffer permanent injury. I think the number of lumps I should be expected to take should be zero.

I'm still going to open carry the bat as deterrence to reduce the chance of that being a call I have to make.

2

This post right here gives some major mixed signals 

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3 hours ago, TheGoldenTyranno said:

This post right here gives some major mixed signals 

I think having to sustain an injury first in order to have a justified lethal response to an imminent threat is an unreasonable standard. The threat has to just be real. People don't have a right to injure you, but of course escalation of the use of force has priority levels--force meets equal force.

My security guard friend has suggested adding mace to my everyday carry for the "in-between" situations--like many others in this thread--but warns that wind direction, capsaicin tolerance and other factors can confound its use. He carries a tazer for 'in-betweens' and says that I should look into getting one as a superior alternative to mace, though I think only LEOs and security companies can get them. Important note: a tazer is different than a flea market stun gun. My friend who is a survivor of domestic violence attests that mace won't stop someone dedicated to fucking you up--it'll just piss them off more.

Real Threats

Example: guy with a weapon/big motherfucker/multiple aggressors hasn't hit me yet but it's obvious it's incoming and I can't escape, my belongings are not sufficient prize, I warn him I'm armed and not to advance, I back up, he advances anyway, I pull and shoot before being bludgeoned/stabbed/broken. This would be the "going on the offense" I referred to in the quoted text above. If they don't pull a weapon and tell me to strip or something obvious I don't have a rational motive to comply with so you have to assume the worst before you're unable to do anything at all. It's surprisingly easy to get beaten to the point of disability or death.

Not an example: Anything I can talk down, walk away or run away from. A pissed off guy wants to throw a few punches and shoves and get on his merry way--I happen to be in that way. Customer service, bars, ratchet house parties--it's happened before, it'll happen again. Not a life or death situation, the aggression is general, not specific, and the body language doesn't indicate premeditated focus that comes when someone is out to get you, it's chaotic, disorganized, and mostly aimed elsewhere. Crazy hobos fit in this category more often than not.

It's a pretty specific set of scenarios; I don't plan on using this thing often.

To take this back to its source: in the scenario I encountered, I would have had to have been attacked right as I was entering my vehicle--before I could get my door closed--to make me seriously consider using my weapon. The accomplice could then join in easily. Mace would probably backfire. If I ran, instead of attempting to enter, I had nowhere to go to--nowhere was open except maybe the nearby strip club--and I lost visual on her friend (also my knee is not that great). It was that thought specifically that made me realize my options could be extremely limited within that timeframe and I was all alone. Wasn't much margin of error on my end to get away unscathed.

I can see an interpretation of what I wrote above as "I would just shoot anyone I thought would hurt me [vague] and in some magic fairy land people who get shot don't die" in the way I worded that, and I thank you for being specific, giving me a quote and a problem--it gives me something I can actually respond to instead of the nebulous and general "lol psycho killer small penor gun nut stop being poor and let urself get beaten up," posts in here. I think I got what you meant.

To elaborate on the other half of that: I would prefer to make it to my grave without hurting anyone. Ideally anyone I would have to draw on would just fuck off without a trigger pull as soon as they see the thing, so I'd sleep better at night and he could reconsider his life choices, but I'm not going to draw it unless a trigger pull would be warranted (I am about to be rendered completely helpless, get fucked up, or die). One of those "I would be in the right, but no matter what I wouldn't feel right about it because it's another human being" type things. It's not a realistic expectation, just one I am 110% happy to accept if it comes about--these things do happen sometimes. If I do pull I expect to have to empty an entire magazine into the person trying to kill me to get them to stop, which will result in their death.

I don't want to run out of options should the worst happen. The most realistic expectation is that this hunk of plastic and metal rides in my crotch for decades doing little outside the range but weighing down my belt and collecting lint for me to clean out periodically--one of the reasons I went with a single stack chambered in 9mm.

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8 hours ago, Francis J Underwood said:

Hes a mod and apparently popular. YOU HAD ONE FUCKING JOB 

Nah they're retired staff now.

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Aaron    2007

guy has legit obvious mental health issues... i feel uncomfortable with this goading 

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