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Solstice

Family Mafia Aftergame Thread - Town Wins

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Solstice    368

Well this game ended up being a blowout win for town right up until the end there.  I honestly did not think dgz town was capable of throwing two scum on the lynch block day one (jc and walia, and the day started with them scumreading silver also) so massive props to town there for playing a far better day 1 than I’ve seen on here before (normally a random town gets lynched and nobody learns much from it until a few days later).   The fact that there was a third faction was not supposed to be revealed until one of its members actually flipped, so I apologize to JC and silver for that as it pretty much costed them the game, though having only 1 night of double nightkills due to a faction wipeout didn’t help them much either.

 

Scum Quick topics:

Broken and walia: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/ASedFYEuMLR 
Jc and silver: https://www.quicktopic.com/52/H/jsdEKxQGDKyMh 


LVP is Broken.  He didn’t even post in the QT until after walia had already died (I’m not sure if he even read it before walia died), and he gave walia no help in the thread to save himself or at least turn his death into massive towcred and solo it.  On top of that he scumslipped hard on day two, and when called out on it he basically just rolled over and admitted to being scum.  I doubt anybody is going to disagree with this choice.

 

Scum MVP is JC.  Early in day 1 he correctly deduced that there was another faction, and that town likely had tracker instead of cop.  Despite almost being lynched day 1 he played it brilliantly and went on to earn massive towncred for it.  If his faction hadn’t gotten revealed before one of them flipped I think he had a good shot of eeking out a win.  He was also pretty much the only thing keeping scum from throwing in the town early on, and actually managed to get a mislynch when I thought for sure he was a goner.  Thanks for sticking it out for the spirit of the game as long as you did, even though I’m sure you didn’t want to.

 

Town MVP is Jazz for finding pretty much all the scum and leading town down the right path for most of the game.  You were really the only one trying after Malcolm and PSK died.   

 

This night actions that were taken will be listed below:

 

 

N1

Slick tracks wunter, who went nowhere.

Mascis gives a one shot cop device to death sentance.

Death heals faint believing he claimed cop (Malcolm was actually the one to claim cop).  Actually it turns out death said heal winter mutli (faint) but he meant malcom’s multi as he was the one to claim cop, but he got the names mixed up.  OOPS.  

Broken chooses to watch Malcolm and kill PSK. He sees Silver visited Malcolm.

Silver chooses to kill and watch Malcolm. He sees Broken visited Malcolm.  

JC chooses to use his one shot heal on himself, assuming the other faction will believe him to be the town doctor, and thus try to kill him. 

 

N2

Logic indirectly reveals in the day two flip that there is a third faction, which I was not planning to do until a member of that faction actually flipped.  This basically guarantees a town win, as now town is not looking for a third partner, but a separate entity.  SORRY!

Mascis gives a 1 shot vig device to Jazz.

Death sentence uses his one shot cop scan on 2k, who is town. He also uses his one self heal on himself to make sure he will live to share the scan result.  

Slick chooses to track Silver, who visited no one.

JC choses to kill slick.  

Silver does not watch anyone.  

 

N3

Jazz chooses to shoot faint

Jc chooses to kill 2k since he is confirmed town

Death sentence chooses to heal 2k for the same reason.

Mascis gives 1 shot watcher to 2k

 


This is not a set up I came up with on my own; I actually played it before on another site and had a lot of fun with it.  The game made it to mylo there, where scum narrowly lost.  I’ll summarize what happened in that game in a spoiler in case anyone wants to compare it to this one:

 

 

 


 

When we played it the game ended in a town win in mylo on day 4. The day 1 lynch ended up randomly being switched to the inventor at the last second (who wasn’t online to claim or defend themselves) so I’m not really sure how swingy he makes the game (though being you make an invention one night and the person can’t use it until the next night, I don’t think it’s too bad as there’s plenty of time for scum to kill them or have the invention end up going to scum).  I actually nerfed inventor for our version just in case, and made him only able to give out each item once. So 8 town, 2 scum, 2 scum night one. 

 

N1 ended with a VT and Maf doc dead, so most of town assumed we had a vig (scum had already figured out it was multiball just by how few of them there were).  So it was 7 town – 2 scum – 1 scum at this point.  D2 had a town strongly imply cop with a red on another town while refusing to actually claim cop.  Lynch ends up very close between the “red scan” and another person blindly following said cop who had also voted to lynch the inventor, and tied up votes doing it.  The later ended up being lynched with a last second vote swing from scum (who would be killed the next night).  So 6 town, 2 scum, 1 scum here.

 

N2 had a mafia watcher from the other team killed, but host made the flip color, flavor, etc. identical to the other mafia that flipped so we didn’t know we were playing multiball yet.  So 6 town, 1 scum, 1 scum here. D3 the “cop” retracts their claim, and town doc claims saying they protected the cop, which was probably why there was no town Nked.  This makes people believe scum would only try to kill the fake cop if they were actually right about the scan.  Lynch ends up close again between the “red scan” and the fake cop, since said red scan target was painting them as a jester or executioner at this point.  Lynch ends up being the cop claim due to a last minute unvote from town.  The cop claim was vanilla town. We also had another vanilla town get modkilled for inactivity. So 4 town, 1 scum, 1 scum now.  

 

N3 we lost another VT and another scum watcher.  So 3 town, 1 scum, 0 scum for mylo.  Town realizes it’s multiball at this point.  D4 tracker claims, but unfortunately every person he tracked had already died.  Town almost ends up lynching the town doc (believing there’s 2 identical mafia teams and that he’s a mafia doctor).  But they eventually correctly lynch scum because they were floating and not contributing at all.  The last 4 players that day were scum doc, town doc, town tracker, and the “red scan” VT.

 
 

 

 

Based on how close to victory scum came in the other game  I don’t think town’s landslide victory this game was due to massive factional imbalance, but rather a series of “everything that can go wrong, will go wrong” for scum this game.  rei rolling tracker was great for them because they could kill a strong player and a PR with one shot, but unfortunately he got subbed out day 1.  Having 2 scum docs on the lynch block day one and being forced to cc each other only ends with one dead and the other locked into a claim early on which will prevent them from soloing in mylo/lylo, which was also unfortunate.  Having the inventor refuse to give scum any inventions due to scum reading them was unfortunate as they could have really used the boost after that disastrous start.  Having both scum teams catch and try to kill each other early on and having one faction wiped out day 2 was unfortunate as scum NEEDED those double nightkills.  And logic prematurely revealing the third faction was the final nail in an already buried coffin.  If day 1 had gone different I think scum would have had a decent shot at winning, but unfortunately it kind of set the pace for them for the rest of the game.  

 

I’m sorry people (especially scum) didn’t have as much fun with this game as I had hoped, but it did help me grow as a host.  If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, this is the place state them.  Thanks again to everyone who played or helped in running the game; I hope you’ll continue to do so in the future.  
 

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2K18    251

the hosting was fine

except the 4 hours wait to see wunters flip!!!

i agree with all your MVP choices, well played to everyone involved in those

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Solstice    368
3 minutes ago, 2k17! said:

the hosting was fine

except the 4 hours wait to see wunters flip!!!

i agree with all your MVP choices, well played to everyone involved in those

If I flipped wunter right away I would have to have ended the game right away, and I wanted to give JC plenty of time to reconsider his decision to concede in case he changed his mind.  After how the day went down I thought there was still a chance he could win, but at the same time I don't blame him for conceding as in his place I would have quit the minute silver died as he was basically outed then.  Massive props to him for getting a mislynch despite that, there's very few players that I think could have pulled that off. 

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+JC.    4778

Does scum win if the 3rd faction existing isn't revealed? I think almost definitely.

Could i have won tomorrow if i didn't concede? Mayybe? Jazz says he would have voted for debt, but i think he might sniff out my bp claim and he would have to believe debt chose not to nk in order to make his claim that he healed 2k

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+JC.    4778

Btw i rambled a bit near the end of the qt with some of my perspective on some meta things if you care about that kind of stuff

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Jazz    4963

I mean I would have thought about it but I was sick of playing with unconfirmed towns who weren't even trying to project town so thanks for conceding!

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+JC.    4778
Just now, JC. said:

Btw i rambled a bit near the end of the qt with some of my perspective on some meta things if you care about that kind of stuff

 

I also tried my best throughout the qt to explain my actions and what the plan was. Please feel free to use this for your future reference or to give me feedback on where I could have improved.

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+JC.    4778

thoughts on something like these changes to the format?

(1) inventor to joat. Mascis barely played the game and was claiming scum/neutral and could get away with that because of how the role self-confirmed

(2) add something like ninja/roleblock/rolecop and figure out how to balance mafia factions with different roles. The mechanics of "multiball faction A had doc + cop" immediately brought jazz to silver and I, when we were the two most universally town read players the flip before

(3) doc to bulletproof. 2scum doc, doc, and inventor doc shot just seems like a lot of protection going on. BP also allows for "cooler" plays to draw NKs, imo

 

obviously i think players knowing it is multiball gives town an info advantage they should not have as well

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BuildTheWalia    156

Unfortunately I didn't have a lot of fun this game, and I completely agree that everything went wrong for my scum team Day 1 (I wasn't lying when I said I had a shit-ton of work to do that weekend). I like the concept of multiball, but if this style is done again it might be helpful to look at the teams for balance (New Scum + BB =/= recipe for success). Also, I think the scum roles between teams shouldn't be mirror images of each other, as town can pretty easily recognize what roles the other scum team has once one is lynched.

 

Still, it was a pretty interesting learning experience, but don't expect my scum game to be that bad next time.

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Solstice    368
6 minutes ago, JC. said:

thoughts on something like these changes to the format?

(1) inventor to joat. Mascis barely played the game and was claiming scum/neutral and could get away with that because of how the role self-confirmed

(2) add something like ninja/roleblock/rolecop and figure out how to balance mafia factions with different roles. The mechanics of "multiball faction A had doc + cop" immediately brought jazz to silver and I, when we were the two most universally town read players the flip before

(3) doc to bulletproof. 2scum doc, doc, and inventor doc shot just seems like a lot of protection going on. BP also allows for "cooler" plays to draw NKs, imo

 

obviously i think players knowing it is multiball gives town an info advantage they should not have as well

If I were to run the game again I think the changes I would make are

-    Cut one vanilla town, possibly 2 if I didn’t implement any other changes listed below.
-    Remove town doc’s ability to self heal; keep it for scum docs and first aid kit invention (as the invention could end up going to a lone scum and I want it to be usable for them)
-    Further nerf inventor by only allowing each player to receive an item once (requires more skill as lategame you may only be left with scum and players you’ve already gifted previously) 
-    Remove the 2 shot restriction from the scum watchers (more info and better fake claim)

 

 I don't want to change it too drastically as then it ends up not being the same thing anymore and at that point I should just pick a different multiball setup all together.  (Matrix 14 has multiball that everyone seems to think is balanced, so maybe I'd go with that.)

Edited by Solstice
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2K18    251
4 minutes ago, BuildTheWalia said:

Unfortunately I didn't have a lot of fun this game, and I completely agree that everything went wrong for my scum team Day 1 (I wasn't lying when I said I had a shit-ton of work to do that weekend). I like the concept of multiball, but if this style is done again it might be helpful to look at the teams for balance (New Scum + BB =/= recipe for success). Also, I think the scum roles between teams shouldn't be mirror images of each other, as town can pretty easily recognize what roles the other scum team has once one is lynched.

 

Still, it was a pretty interesting learning experience, but don't expect my scum game to be that bad next time.

yeah it's a common scum error for newer players, don't kick yourself about it

everyone's there at one point when they're trying to play an active scumgame

just keep your reads as succinct and purposeful as possible

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+JC.    4778

oh yeah also v surprised by Malcolm's play

1000% chance he is like "haha caught 2 scum", but not sticking to walia after death made his doc soft is just not what i expect from top players reading the thread.

The walia lynch had to happen at that point and all it would have done earlier was force some other town player to fake claim doc if they were even able to realise it in time

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+JC.    4778

btw if you read a lot of my games as scum, you'll notice i tend to float through most of them

because of this, and due to the odds of rolling scum, this is my first time really playing it in probably over a year.

feedback would be really valuable!!!

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Huh ok

 

Still day 1 called out Broken brilliance and walia

 

2 out of 4 considering the one started as a dartboard.

 

Idk reading the review was less satisfying than I thought it would b when I saw the notification pop up after game thread etc. :/

 

I was Mother AKA town doc.

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+JC.    4778
Just now, Death Sentence said:

 

Idk reading the review was less satisfying than I thought it would b when I saw the notification pop up after game thread etc. :/

 

Is it because it wasn't wunter?

if this course of action worsened your experience it is something i will have to keep in mind for the future

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Just now, JC. said:

 

Is it because it wasn't wunter?

if this course of action worsened your experience it is something i will have to keep in mind for the future

wasn't that, I don't know it's hard to explain. 

 

like in the day even though I missed the first half I was able to scan through and Lock scum on easily also still feel stupid over the "Multi" mix up.

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Jazz    4963

Death was irrationally certain that I would be scum, with no basis behind the read other than "his posts are eh", even with all the work I did that clearly makes me town. I don't get it. That read made zero sense man.

 

Next time consider how you look compared to everyone else. You were barely playing and that makes it really hard on the rest of your team to work with you. I gave you practically every scum and it seems you didn't even bother to read my posts to see how I got onto them.

 

I could say a similar thing about wunter over-stating his own impact on the game. There is such a dearth of self awareness in this section.

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Jazz    4963
3 minutes ago, Death Sentence said:

wasn't that, I don't know it's hard to explain. 

 

like in the day even though I missed the first half I was able to scan through and Lock scum on easily also still feel stupid over the "Multi" mix up.

 

I don't think you did anything in regards to hunting scum or making legit pushes. You got Walia on a counter claim and silver on info. So again, lack of self awareness.

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+JC.    4778
3 minutes ago, Jazz said:

 

I could say a similar thing about wunter over-stating his own impact on the game. There is such a dearth of self awareness in this section.

 

two questions

(a) what do you think causes this?

(b) thoughts on post 201 of the QT?

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1 hour ago, Jazz said:

Death was irrationally certain that I would be scum, with no basis behind the read other than "his posts are eh", even with all the work I did that clearly makes me town. I don't get it. That read made zero sense man.

 

Next time consider how you look compared to everyone else. You were barely playing and that makes it really hard on the rest of your team to work with you. I gave you practically every scum and it seems you didn't even bother to read my posts to see how I got onto them.

 

I could say a similar thing about wunter over-stating his own impact on the game. There is such a dearth of self awareness in this section.

irrationally certain.

 

noted. 

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1 hour ago, Jazz said:

 

I don't think you did anything in regards to hunting scum or making legit pushes. You got Walia on a counter claim and silver on info. So again, lack of self awareness.

confirming town means nothing ok

 

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Jazz    4963
11 minutes ago, Death Sentence said:

confirming town means nothing ok

 

 

if you're talking about using your ability I think you used it quite well. It's just too bad you typed in winter multi instead of malcolm multi

 

best part is malcolm got NKd because having the multi confused the healer. If he posted under malcolm he would have been healed

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