13 replies to this topic

[Thearthur0]

For example, say you have a card "X" and the situation at hand gives you an opportunity for a push if you activate it. What factors do you guys take into consideration when you're deciding on a play? I have a small list of things to consider that I always go through whenever I play, and I'm hoping to add more to that list to help me when I play.

My apologies if there are already similar topics about this kind of stuff already.

[Darjeeling]

Somewhat related:

[Thearthur0]

I'm at rehearsal right now but I'll be sure to watch it afterwards.

[Thearthur0]

Is there a character limit on the title of the topic btw?

[StillPojo]

Basically you just have to know at what point you definitely lose the game. A lot of the time, especially when two slower decks face each other, knowing how much damage you can take before you come back and planning accordingly is crucial for knowing when to use certain cards. Prime example from Round 1 of a regional I played in two weeks ago. Game 2 in the Gemini HERO Stun mirror match, my opponent was clearly digging through his deck for a Neos Alius to make his cards live, so I would just drop a Stratos/Thunder King/Alius and sit on it and as few backrows as possible until he had answers to my whole board. By that time, I had enough cards to just drop another beater and a backrow or two. By minimalizing my field presence, I was able to force him to commit to the board while still keeping control of it and building a steady stream of answers. I had a Dark Bribe set the entire game, and I would just let his Warnings/Hero Blasts/Prisons get my guys because I had more to fall back on. By the time I ground him down to no cards on field and 1 or 2 in hand, life points were 6100 to 800 in his favor. But was I scared? Fuck no. I was holding onto a Thunder King, 2 Miracle Fusion, 2 other cards, with a Dark Bribe and a Solemn Judgment set. I knew I had the game won, despite having so few life points. If you know your "clock" for when you'll lose the game, then you can easily figure out how much to hang on to for your come back, and you can then ensure your come back. Obviously decks like Inzektors and Wind-Ups have very random "clocks", as they can go off at any moment, but if you keep track of what cards they've already used and how many cards they're holding on to (and which ones they're holding on to), you can stil figure out your clock with reasonable accuracy.

[Thearthur0]

So essentially what you're trying to say is to play more conservatively, correct?

[flyingelephant]

So essentially what you're trying to say is to play more conservatively, correct?

He's saying that you have to know how to play based on your own deck and the matchup. In a match between two control-based decks, you have to grind, usually. Playing conservatively isn't always the best options. If you're in a Chaos Dragon mirror, your goal is to win before your opponent does by dropping your boss monsters as quickly as possible, usually.

[StillPojo]

Basically the idea in Magic, that can easily be applied to Yugioh, is (and I'm paraphrasing here) to identify as early on in the game as possible whether you're the control deck, or the aggro deck in the match-up, and play accordingly. For example, if you're playing Hero Beat and you're up against Dino Rabbit, you've got to get more aggressive, push through their backrow and Laggia negation to beat hem down before they dominate the board. However, if Hero Beat is going up against Chaos Dragon, that player will want to take advantage of their backrows and use them to keep Dragon's huge beaters off the board, thus keeping control of the game. This varies from match-up to match-up, depending on what you're playing with and against. In mirror matches, where both decks are trying to accomplish the same thing, it really just becomes a race; who can explode and/or dominate the field first usually wins.

[Thearthur0]

Basically the idea in Magic, that can easily be applied to Yugioh, is (and I'm paraphrasing here) to identify as early on in the game as possible whether you're the control deck, or the aggro deck in the match-up, and play accordingly. For example, if you're playing Hero Beat and you're up against Dino Rabbit, you've got to get more aggressive, push through their backrow and Laggia negation to beat hem down before they dominate the board. However, if Hero Beat is going up against Chaos Dragon, that player will want to take advantage of their backrows and use them to keep Dragon's huge beaters off the board, thus keeping control of the game. This varies from match-up to match-up, depending on what you're playing with and against. In mirror matches, where both decks are trying to accomplish the same thing, it really just becomes a race; who can explode and/or dominate the field first usually wins.

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Generally, most of what I've been taught has been to just play conservatively, but your approach seems to be more effective.

Another question comes up to mind: how do you play through a bad hand?

[BigDongStudios]

Either you try to bluff your way out of a bad hand, or make plays that would be risky in other situations. If your hand is bad you need to take certain risks you would not take otherwise.

[ThePedanticGentleman]

Basically the idea in Magic, that can easily be applied to Yugioh, is (and I'm paraphrasing here) to identify as early on in the game as possible whether you're the control deck, or the aggro deck in the match-up, and play accordingly. For example, if you're playing Hero Beat and you're up against Dino Rabbit, you've got to get more aggressive, push through their backrow and Laggia negation to beat hem down before they dominate the board. However, if Hero Beat is going up against Chaos Dragon, that player will want to take advantage of their backrows and use them to keep Dragon's huge beaters off the board, thus keeping control of the game. This varies from match-up to match-up, depending on what you're playing with and against. In mirror matches, where both decks are trying to accomplish the same thing, it really just becomes a race; who can explode and/or dominate the field first usually wins.

Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. Generally, most of what I've been taught has been to just play conservatively, but your approach seems to be more effective.

Another question comes up to mind: how do you play through a bad hand?

Slow playing is definitely the best response to a bad hand. You need more time to see cards that make your hand live. If you only have one playable card and you play it, once your opponent destroys it, you're screwed for the rest of the game unless you get really lucky and draw out of the situation.

As a corollary to the "matchup theory", it is not just about whether or not you have control vs. aggro matchup, it is also about whether you have a good or a bad matchup. If you have a bad matchup, I wouldn't try and prolong the matchup. As time goes on the matchup is more likely to go against you. Unless of course its against a deck like windups which goes off once and then burns out.

[harig07]

So essentially what you're trying to say is to play more conservatively, correct?

I remember reading on here that bad players always go aggressive, good players always go conservative and the best players know when to go one or the other. Most of the time playing defensively is the best option but you can't generalise and have to take each situation as it comes, that knowledge of when to push and when to sit back basically only comes through experience in my opinion. You push too much and you're asking to walk into a TT/MF, if you sit back too much you're asking to have the opponent rush you to the point where you can't recover, you have to try and switch it up.

Spoiler

Basically you just have to know at what point you definitely lose the game. A lot of the time, especially when two slower decks face each other, knowing how much damage you can take before you come back and planning accordingly is crucial for knowing when to use certain cards. Prime example from Round 1 of a regional I played in two weeks ago. Game 2 in the Gemini HERO Stun mirror match, my opponent was clearly digging through his deck for a Neos Alius to make his cards live, so I would just drop a Stratos/Thunder King/Alius and sit on it and as few backrows as possible until he had answers to my whole board. By that time, I had enough cards to just drop another beater and a backrow or two. By minimalizing my field presence, I was able to force him to commit to the board while still keeping control of it and building a steady stream of answers. I had a Dark Bribe set the entire game, and I would just let his Warnings/Hero Blasts/Prisons get my guys because I had more to fall back on. By the time I ground him down to no cards on field and 1 or 2 in hand, life points were 6100 to 800 in his favor. But was I scared? Fuck no. I was holding onto a Thunder King, 2 Miracle Fusion, 2 other cards, with a Dark Bribe and a Solemn Judgment set. I knew I had the game won, despite having so few life points. If you know your "clock" for when you'll lose the game, then you can easily figure out how much to hang on to for your come back, and you can then ensure your come back. Obviously decks like Inzektors and Wind-Ups have very random "clocks", as they can go off at any moment, but if you keep track of what cards they've already used and how many cards they're holding on to (and which ones they're holding on to), you can stil figure out your clock with reasonable accuracy.

That's why I don't like this format too much, it's really hard to establish a good 'clock' factor when you could get bumraped at any second by a Rabbit/Dragon/Wind-Up/Inzektor push and just lose. The point you made is definitely true though, sometimes it's better to take a few lifepoints than to forfeit your resources, I always try to play the advantage game as ultimately I see that as the game's win condition so taking some LP in order to gain a one-up on my opponent is fine with me.

[Sykotic]

Somewhat related:

best yugitube video i have ever watched. mandatory watching for anybody who is bad or mediocre and wants to get better. i've told so many people before that you need to think through every decision you make and use common sense, but this vid explains it to perfection IMO. show this to any horrible players you know that get on your case for taking more than 30 seconds to think about a move.

[! (^_^) !]

This thread has actually really helped me.

Hopefully I can apply the logic to more duels, and be more consistent.